IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[gliving]

Not sure, but you just reminded me of something. This is how everyone should know that BG is not RL. BG is LE's "main suspect". (not RL)
http://wane.com/2017/02/19/police-man-in-photos-now-main-suspect-in-2-girls-deaths/





Does anyone really think that LE had not talked to RL by this point? (Article was Feb 19th)

And yet a Judge signed off on a probable cause search warrant for his home and property March 17th from information supplied to him by the FBI.

 

[mi_hiker]

Can someone please link the radio transcript page for this case? I can't find it via tapatalk. Thank you in advance [emoji4]


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Liberty German and Abigail Williams Scanner Thread

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ty-German-and-Abigail-Williams-Scanner-Thread


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[Yvettea]

Just popping in to ask when you all think the items taken from RL's home will be back from testing.

A week to 3 weeks.

 

[jillycat]

I understand yours and others' frustrations but, WADR, LE's only obligation is to Libby, Abby and their families. I have a lot of faith in LE because their determination to find this guy is palpable, and these people are very well-trained, experienced and professional.

ETA Technically, I suppose their obligation is to the state, but they're not obligated to keep the public informed no matter how much the public wants or demands to be in the loop.

Practically, they have an obligation to the community if there is a known danger. Keeping people informed about danger and revealing information about an ongoing investigation are two different things.

I live in a community where a perpetrator "spontaneously" (his word for his opportunistic abductions and killings) murdered two women and before he was caught the police told us at a community meeting that there wasn't "some killer on the loose posing a threat to women". In fact, there was.

Women figured that out for themselves, but the inability or refusal of LE to just say it angered us all.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Does anybody have any court documents stating that in fact he did go to Lafayette? Other than using that as his alibi for the time the girls were murdered?


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going to lafayette was not part of the probation violation so there would be no court records of his "alibi".

 

[anthym29]

There have been theories that a female could have been involved in the killings also and that could be the twist imo. Two sets of male DNA and 3 sets of femak
le DNA?..

Or one male, 3 female? I don't think there were 2 men involved. I don't know why. I guess because I've read about plenty of multi-victim crimes perpetrated by one suspect (excluding mass murders) and unless LE flat out says they're looking for 2, I just don't think there was. JMO.

I don't know that I really believe there was more than one suspect anyway but I feel I'm exhausting that phrase.

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[Deleted member 155000]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on triggers or overreaction. I think it's the nature of those responses most of us are getting at. They just don't make sense with this crime and IMO are just not generally the type of overreaction that leads to violence against others the vast majority of the time. I mean I grew up with severe PTSD and my brother in the other hand grew up with what is still undiagnosed but very problematic in his life mood swings that lead to very quick anger and a very very different type of overreaction than the types I experienced with PTSD. So I guess I'm not disagreeing with you but more pointing towards the fact that there are different forms of "overreaction" some much more likely to lead to anger/ rage/ violence than others. PTSD overreaction is more of a hypervigilance and sense of feeling unsafe, remembering past trauma, reacting as you did to the original trauma. I suspect I had a hell of a lot of pent up anger about my trauma as well but when I was finally even able to feel it that came out at different times that had nothing to do really with the PTSD or being triggering, etc. But maybe I'm wrong to think one has to feel some sort of anger or rage to commit murder?

Anyway sorry because this may be running OT here. Just my thoughts and why I think many of us responded to your statement the way we did. For me, personally, it was the way you used the word overreaction and inappropriate responses. You're not wrong in using those words either but just worth pointing out I don't think that's the kind of overreaction or inappropriate/ disproportionate response to things that we usually think of when talking about crimes and criminals. Does that make sense? There's such a strong connection between PTSD and other types of anxiety and panic disorders and I think that's a very different type of response generally speaking from someone who kills people. It's often the very opposite of aggression, though certainly there's an underlying issue with control and wishing/ wanting to gain control over a situation. I guess I just think of anything it's what the girls would've felt and experienced that has a lot more to do with PTSD type feelings and responses than what the killer was thinking and feeling. But I will freely admit I have a bias here since I've been the victim of a sex crime and not the perpetrator of one and I know I'm far from alone in that. (Also not to say I necessarily think the girls were sexually assaulted either)


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No worries. I am not and was not at all advocating that PTSD should be a part of any leading theory here. A poster asked what besides SA could contribute to a grown man killing two girls. I threw out several other things, similar to what you said, that could increase someone's anxiety levels and lower their tolerance etc including PTSD in the list. Someone else felt the need to reply by saying they thought it was unfortunate PTSD was mentioned in this light, so I was clarifying that I am not by any means stereotyping all sufferers of PTSD as violent, but I am unfortunately deeply acquainted with PTSD. Because I am certain of killings that happened after minor confrontations with strangers as well as even cases which unfolded while hunting in the woods (where a sufferer of PTSD felt challenged and reacted in a dangerous way that was likely escalated by previous trauma), I just understand inherently that it could be one of many factors if we were trying to think of some.

I myself think we are talking about a local who killed immediately after getting the girls off the trail, covered it up, and left. I don't try to determine a single motive, as I have mentioned several times bc I don't believe I have enough information to do so. I just try to remain open to all possibilities.

Thanks for your comments!


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[Bemused]

Practically, they have an obligation to the community if there is a known danger. Keeping people informed about danger and revealing information about an ongoing investigation are two different things.

I live in a community where a perpetrator "spontaneously" (his word for his opportunistic abductions and killings) murdered two women and before he was caught the police told us at a community meeting that there wasn't "some killer on the loose posing a threat to women". In fact, there was.

Women figured that out for themselves, but the inability or refusal of LE to just say it angered us all.

I don't believe they have a legal requirement to inform the public about details that can or may compromise the integrity of an open criminal investigation.

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

Rage over trespassing could be a possibility. A 78 yr old man in Preble County Ohio shot and killed a trespasser who was hunting for ginseng on his property in 2012(?). Revenge or retribution could be considered if , say, a family member somehow wronged or angered the wrong people, as has been theorized by some in the Iowa case, and this case has some similarities if you dig a little, IMO. Accident? Maybe the perp started out to "teach them a lesson" in regard to trespassing or some other thing he saw as a personal slight, and he accidentally seriously injures or kills one which causes him to believe he must then kill the other? There are multiple other reasons besides SA that could motivate someone to kill teen girls.

Rage over what ?

Revenge for what when it doesn't seem like he knew them and it seems like a chance encounter ?

 

[Eileen730]

I think he was seen selling drugs and there was a second person. The other person split and the bad man took care of the problem. They killed them because they knew both or one of them.
Jmo

 

[otto]

I think he was seen selling drugs and there was a second person. The other person split and the bad man took care of the problem. They killed them because they knew both or one of them.
Jmo

I don't think two men would go to a rural park to make a drug deal, and I don't think two teenagers who witness such a small drug deal (that it happens in a park) would know what they were seeing.

 

[Yvettea]

Only one Facebook is available, KK's most recent. Also couldn't access the obits. Can you share cause of death? If she was experiencing depression her sudden-death could be in reaction to the girls death.

 

[anthym29]

Only one Facebook is available, KK's most recent. Also couldn't access the obits. Can you share cause of death? If she was experiencing depression her sudden-death could be in reaction to the girls death.

Or i was wondering if it was drug related.

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[AmateurAnalyst73]

I considered something along these lines, as well. There was a somewhat secluded park in Indiana a few years back that made the news for being a place where men would meet other men for sex, sometimes in broad daylight, and in plain view of anyone who might be hiking through the park. I briefly wondered if maybe they had witnessed BG involved in something similar?

What if they caught him cheating?

 

[Confusion]

Okay, a whole new direction here (sort of). I'm just working off the idea that there was no SA and BG may have had a psychotic break, or some form of uncontrolled rage.

The girls passed BG on the north side and thought he seemed a bit odd, but he just disappeared from sight and they forgit about him. They wandered around a bit, snapped some pictures and crossed the bridge. Libby took the picture of Abby on the way across, and they messed around for a while. BG headed across the bridge, not realizing they were over there (he may have thought they had left the area heading toward Abby's home.

When he got fairly close to the end, the girls showed up there to cross back to wait for their ride. They see 'the weird guy' coming and Libby started to record him. He saw what she was doing and turned around to go back north, which is why we have no clearer views of his face. Because he was unstable at the time, he started wandering off looking for a place to hide. They found they had some time to spare, not realizing how dangerous he was and curious about the guy, so they started following him to see where he was going. After they a short time, he stopped, grabbed them and brought them down to where they were found. He murdered them and took off to wherever he was going and/or came from. That would bring it to about the time their ride was supposed to be there, but there wouldn't be anyone there to be seen.


MOO

 

[JLSChook]

And yet a Judge signed off on a probable cause search warrant for his home and property March 17th from information supplied to him by the FBI.

What does that have to do with BG not being RL?

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

I thought the BTK guy had forced a victim to restrain another? IIRC?

I don't have a source off the top of my head but I'll work on finding one. I read an example last week (I think on this forum). The perp tightened the bindings on the first victim after restraining the second. moo

 

[jillycat]

I don't believe they have a legal requirement to inform the public about details that can or may compromise the integrity of an open criminal investigation.

Yes, a practical obligation and a legal requirement are different. As I said, warning the public or confirming a danger is different than giving up information about an ongoing investigation. I'm referring to the post concerning community members being upset over the police remarks and lack of clarity about danger to others.

I can't imagine that anyone believes it's correct under any circumstances to give out investigative information that compromises catching and prosecuting this person.

 

[stellamickey]

I considered something along these lines, as well. There was a somewhat secluded park in Indiana a few years back that made the news for being a place where men would meet other men for sex, sometimes in broad daylight, and in plain view of anyone who might be hiking through the park. I briefly wondered if maybe they had witnessed BG involved in something similar?

Wouldn't a person in that situation have a lot to lose? Wife, family and home.

 

[roseofsharon]

What does that have to do with BG not being RL?

The judge is doing his due diligence with the facts that were presented to him and is not going to dismiss the possibility that RL could, in fact, be BG. No stone unturned! MOO