IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #50

[Bemused]

Lots of good local Delphi information here to recap:

http://www.delphitimes.net/localnew... the majority of the top 10 are drug-related.

 

[asyousay]

My arrow is rubbish as I have done this quickly on my phone but it shows the area I'm talking about.

http://i65.tinypic.com/etsirl.jpg

 

[Burnt Toast]

I know you weren't asking me, but I'll offer an opinion. I believe that the BBR SW was either for a specific piece of evidence(maybe the phone), or because someone who lives there might be a RSO. If it was for the phone, maybe they determined it had been tossed there, and the folks were unaware. If it was due to a RSO, he likely had an alibi, such as being at work. JMO

and why then have they not cleared RL if they are capable of clearing people?

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

Hat, hair, type of hat(if he's wearing) have all been debated to death, and different people seem to see different things. IMO, the hat RL wears in interviews would block his eyes and most of his nose at the angle we see BG's head at. I also know that it's not unusual for men who wear hats to have several. Also, (since I'm in the BG definitely has on a hat camp) in one photo he appears to be wearing an ivy cap(aka a flat or driving cap), and in the other he appears to be wearing a baseball cap with a "redneck roll" bill. I still lean toward ivy cap, and believe the latter is an affect created by compression/shadow/pixellation. Then there's the whole fanny pack/shirttails/tool belt debate(even though LE stated at some point that it was shirttails).

i personally can't see any hair on BG's head. i don't believe i have read anywhere from either MSM or LE that there is head hair seen at all...

Edit: head added

 

[JLSChook]

My arrow is rubbish as I have done this quickly on my phone but it shows the area I'm talking about.

http://i65.tinypic.com/etsirl.jpg

Yup, it looks dark to me. Let's be fair though. The next day, RL could have gained about 60 lbs, died his hair back to grey, aged about 35 years, and grew a huge mustache.
It could happen.

(Before anyone gets bent out of shape, I'm just trying add a little levity to this VERY tense thread)

:seeya:

 

[ninij9]

Perhaps I am, I can't get passed that no one in a town he has lived in for years didn't see that photo or hear the audio ond say oh damn that's RL. The man in the photo is suspected of participating in the murder....LE has stated.....LE is still asking the public to identify BG....seems a stretch that LE don't recognize him either.

WADR, how do you know that some townsfolk haven't called in their opinion on RL? Not saying he is or isn't BG, I'm just saying we have zero idea if any of those 16,000 tips included townsfolk calling about him. Jmo.

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[indy53]

Sleuthing is not bashing.
But we're on page 16 of page 50 and it seems it would take up a whole lot less space (IMO) for certain people to just list all the reasons why they feel RL is involved. So how about it? May we have a bulleted list?

Here's a bulleted list that I've been compiling:

- He had the opportunity (proximity) and the means (adult male authority figure who could brandish lethal weapons)
- RL’s whereabouts from noon to 630 pm on 2/13 and on 2/14 until the bodies were found are as yet unknown to the public
- Superficial resemblance of both voice and appearance between RL and BG
o Commonality in clothing worn by BG and RL, especially before the BG photo was released—RL changed apparel after that
- Girls were found on his property (possibly RL thought that would throw LE off his trail?)
- RL stated he “knew the families”
o Despite “knowing the families” and being quoted multiple times about the incident, RL has yet to express sadness, grief or mourning for the girls and their families, instead consistently focusing on how the murders have affected him personally
o These are signs of sociopathic or psychopathic behavior
- While his life has been negatively impacted by LE uncovering the PV’s in the wake of the murders, RL’s incarceration (for mistakes of his own making) is incomparable to the sudden and permanent loss of two vibrant and beautiful young girls
- LE has stated that some were not truthful with their alibis.
o RL’s PV’s were discovered by LE in the wake of the murders and included PV’s that he may have lied about
- LE has stated the March 17 SW involving RL’s premises was to “eliminate him or make him a higher suspect”
- LE stated RL is still “involved with the investigation” following his PV sentencing on April 9
- LE has not cleared RL publicly, only saying he’s “not a suspect at this time” which is LE speak for “we’re not ready to say anything definitive”
- RL’s PV resulted in prison time of 3.5 years, near the maximum possible which conveniently takes him off the streets

 

[gliving]

Sleuthing is not bashing.
But we're on page 16 of page 50 and it seems it would take up a whole lot less space (IMO) for certain people to just list all the reasons why they feel RL is involved. So how about it? May we have a bulleted list?

1. Probable cause search warrant issued for his personal home.
2. His pickup truck towed away with chain of custody tape on door
3. Habitual offender shows lack of boundary.
4. His attorney has not come forward with an alibi for him.

I stick to facts. I don't usually create scenarios in my mind as to what happened as to me, it's pointless without facts. hth

 

[ninij9]

[h=1]Delphi: 2 months, 16,000 tips and over 500 interviews later, still no suspects in girls' murders[/h]
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...iews-later-still-no-suspects-in-girls-murders

I hate articles like this because there isn't a quote by LE saying they don't have a suspect in mind. It's all the reporter.

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[AmateurAnalyst73]

It appears to be a firearm to many(including myself). Someone last night(?) posted some info about concealed carry jackets, which are fairly popular with people who have CCW permits, but having seen these in use, I would lean more toward a shoulder holster, due to the angle of the weapon(again, assuming it even is one). And, yes, if that were to be proven, I would assume that BG is left-handed, or at the very least, that he shoots left-handed, as that pistol would be in left-hand draw position.

Hi from the UK. This is my first post and im still trawling through the threads so i must apologise if this has already been discussed..... i have seen this photo..... if the circled area is a gun, would you expect it to be in an inside pocket as you wouldnt put it in your pocket handle first. If it is a gun and in an inside pocket would the suspect be left-handed? He would need to use his left hand to reach into his right pocket to withdraw it......

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[NightOwl77]

IIRC, he was asked by neighbors (or a neighbor) on the 13th at about 6:30 pm, after returning home. I haven't seen anything to say they did or did not search.

As for the 14th I don't remember any info being shared on that. Just that he left and when he returned the girls had been found.

moo

Ok. Thanks... That makes me lean more towards they probably did search there or at least start to... How thoroughly or if he resisted maybe at first and ended up not allowing it? I guess this is not a certainty yet either...

 

[Jax49]

Ok. Thanks... That makes me lean more towards they probably did search there or at least start to... How thoroughly or if he resisted maybe at first and ended up not allowing it? I guess this is not a certainty yet either...

I don't have a link but there is at least one MSM source that says RL agreed to let the property be searched on the 13th. IMHO, had he resisted or refused we'd have heard about it.

 

[franci]

RSBM

Some of the items I have no knowledge or comments to make but can address the following with my opinions:

1 This hasn't been firmly established. We do not know time of death or even whether they were kidnapped by vehicle from under the bridge immediately and brought back later.

2. These three witnesses should be looked at extremely closely as being the closest in time to the 02.07 and 0230 events AFAWK

3. I have already mentioned the possibility of a boat. But nobody has thought that an option. I don't know why. After all, they brought a dive boat ( don't think it was needed in the end) to the crime scene so the creek must be thought to be navigable.

5. Was the crime scene clean? Could this mean the girls were taken elsewhere, then returned ? Otherwise, I do not know why they weren't found sooner. Number 1 is also relevant here and LE will know the answer to this.

Your points are very well thought out. Sorry I have no valid input on the rest and I think you have the scanner response already.

AJMO

just a thought re Q5 and the often mentioned 'pristine" crime scene..could it have been cleaned by the time RL and the media had access to it which i believe was a couple of days after the inital discovery. By that time any foliage and soil staining would have been taken and bagged for evidence, photography finalized and a professional crime scene cleaning operation quite possibly performed on the rest of the area to remove any remaining evidence of the violence that has occurred ..This may have been done out of respect for the girls and their families and to prevent the scene from becoming a macabre visiting attraction for those interested in the case.Only the original finder of the girls and LE know the answer to this as you say,but a clean scene may definitely not mean a second location was involved or that a very terrible sight didnt confront first responders on that tueday afternoon .jmo

 

[JLSChook]

Here's a bulleted list that I've been compiling:

- He had the opportunity (proximity) and the means (adult male authority figure who could brandish lethal weapons)
- RL’s whereabouts from noon to 630 pm on 2/13 and on 2/14 until the bodies were found are as yet unknown to the public
- Superficial resemblance of both voice and appearance between RL and BG
o Commonality in clothing worn by BG and RL, especially before the BG photo was released—RL changed apparel after that
- Girls were found on his property (possibly RL thought that would throw LE off his trail?)
- RL stated he “knew the families”
o Despite “knowing the families” and being quoted multiple times about the incident, RL has yet to express sadness, grief or mourning for the girls and their families, instead consistently focusing on how the murders have affected him personally
o These are signs of sociopathic or psychopathic behavior
- While his life has been negatively impacted by LE uncovering the PV’s in the wake of the murders, RL’s incarceration (for mistakes of his own making) is incomparable to the sudden and permanent loss of two vibrant and beautiful young girls
- LE has stated that some were not truthful with their alibis.
o RL’s PV’s were discovered by LE in the wake of the murders and included PV’s that he may have lied about
- LE has stated the March 17 SW involving RL’s premises was to “eliminate him or make him a higher suspect”
- LE stated RL is still “involved with the investigation” following his PV sentencing on April 9
- LE has not cleared RL publicly, only saying he’s “not a suspect at this time” which is LE speak for “we’re not ready to say anything definitive”
- RL’s PV resulted in prison time of 3.5 years, near the maximum possible which conveniently takes him off the streets

Finally! Thanks for posting this. I quoted the entire thing because I'm going to try to give my opinion on your points. It will have to be later though because family is coming for a YUGE dinner.
Although I don't think RL is involved at all, I really appreciate all the work you put into this.

 

[gregjrichards]

I was pleased to finally see an arrest in the horrific Vanessa Marcotte case today. I know it took 8 months to arrest the monster but I believe BG will be arrested too at some point. Law enforcement will be relentless at trying to find him. He is not going to get away with this.

 

[JLSChook]

I hate articles like this because there isn't a quote by LE saying they don't have a suspect in mind. It's all the reporter.

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Totally agree. Reporters like to use the word "cleared" a lot too. Much of it is clickbait, IMO.

 

[NightOwl77]

Deer creek is a small creek. Going upstream in a boat/canoe/kayak would be very difficult.

Hmm...I wasn't thinking upstream in terms of the flow of the stream. The stream runs from the bridge that crosses the road down to the E of RL's property down towards the rail bridge doesn't it? Or does it run in the other direction? I was thinking it runs right to left when looking at RL's property from the mono rail bridge. The boat idea was definitely more far fetched, but I don't really see it the other way (from cemetary to the road bridge). That way it's two bodies and a boat.

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

The area has a pretty serious meth problem, going back at least 8 years or more. I was surprised by that, somewhat, for a town this size, but there have been cartel busts within 50 or so miles also, so I guess it's a sign of the times and current trends? I still can't subscribe to the idea that drugs were directly involved, though.

Thank you.

The Sheriff's Department jail and crime report is very interesting. The top crime as far as arrests was OWI, IOW drunk/drugged driving.

ETA there are sure a lot of drug crimes. I took a cursory look but it seems the majority of the top 10 are drug-related.

 

[NightOwl77]

because the reward money was NOT donated for that purpose.

it's a reward for someone finding the killer ie. incentive to give info.in finding the killer -- this test helps do that.
it seems equivalent in my mind. why wouldn't that idea be floated to those who donated it.
this test will help us find so and so more easily possibly. sure, it's not full proof, but may help considerably.

 

[Angelcat13]

Something I wrote last night, just as the thread closed. I hope it's still fitting now; it's a plausible reason for recording rather than running or calling 911..

If the girls had encountered BG earlier, I would imagine they passed each other earlier and there was something about him that they found odd or suspicious. It might have been that he was talking/mumbling to himself, he was glaring at them, he appeared to be trying to hide his face or any number of other things. Whatever it was might have been just weird enough to want to show him to someone else (see if anyone knew him and if he was crazy or something), but not weird enough at that time to make them think they might be in any real danger. MOO

Following what another poster did by asking her teen daughters' thoughts on this, I asked my 15 y/o daughter some things today. That was exactly what she said - film him to show others the creepy guy to see if anyone else knew him or had problems with him in the past. They probably thought he was creepy, but were not aware of the danger until it was too late. I believe he probably passed them, they may have felt relieved that he passed and nothing happened and then he turned on them - quickly and with a weapon displayed.

Another poster said they may not have run because society teaches girls to be polite. I think there's some truth in this. I also think teens, in general, have a sense of invincibility - nothing bad will actually happen to them. This is why there are so many accidents involving teens doing things that adults look at and say, "What were they thinking?" (Just watch an episode of "Ridiculousness" and you'll see what I mean.)

I also think teen girls may not want to act in a way that calls attention to themselves. I know I sometimes tell my daughter to "drama it down" when she starts to overdramatize something. I wonder if she would have been in Abby and Libby's situation if she may have heard my voice in her head saying, "drama it down" and not run away screaming because she would think how ridiculous it would look if the guy just walked on by and was just creepy, but harmless.

I worry about the mixed messages we tell our kids. We tell them to be polite but we also tell them it's not their job to help an adult (such as for directions or to find a lost pet). We tell them to not be over-dramatic but we also tell them to kick, scream, run and fight if they feel threatened. As an adult, it's hard to know how a situation is going to play out so how can we ever expect our kids to know this?

I've had a lot of experiences in my life that make me know that there is a lot of evil in the world. But where there is evil, there is also good. It is so hard to try to raise kids to believe enough in evil so they can recognize it and try to be safe, while not making them fearful and unable to see the wonderful goodness that is also in the world.

It reminds me how much my heart ached when my daughter came home within the first few weeks of school and said they had a fire drill. I said that I thought they had one the week before. She said, "that was an outside fire drill, this was an inside fire drill." When I asked what an inside fire drill was she said it is when they hide in their classroom and have to stay very quiet because someone bad may be in the school. This made me so sad to think that a 5 y/o has to even know about these things. But having had an older son who was in high school when Columbine happened, I knew enough to understand that teaching these things is necessary - even though it shouldn't be.

Sorry for the long post, but my heart aches for Abby and Libby and their families. This should never have happened - to anyone, anywhere.