IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #58

[JLSChook]

Whoa! "These people?" Is he confirming that they're looking for more than one?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm sure many have commented on this by now seeing that I'm almost 24 hours behind. :gaah:

LE does this in many cases. They say person/persons, person or people...'this guy"..etc...I could probably find an example, in this case alone, where several different LE have said all of the above.

They were just covering their bases. I wouldn't read too much into it. In a recent interview LE said "We're going to catch this guy"...

/back to reading

 

[Shiressleuth]

According to the GH and JM videos, the creek is barely ankle deep in a section near the area they were found in. I lean towards them being walked across. I have theorized(so, of course may be completely wrong) that BG may have used a ploy, such as "your gpa/dad/etc was in an accident, and I was asked to come get you. My vehicle is parked at the cememtery because it's closer....let's go.....'down the hill' " If some ploy were used, he could have even let them walk ahead, to give them a sense of confidence(feeling like they could outrun him if things got weird). Once across the creek, if he attacked the first one from behind, with a weapon such as a gun or knife, by the time the second one realized what was going on, she likely would have had no time at all to react, or even scream. I suspect BG parked at the cemetery, which is very close to the CS, and exited the area immediately. Maybe on a motorcycle(due to his layered jackets, and ease of concealment vs. a car or truck)

But what could be the motive if there was no SA and the girls were unknown to him ? I don't follow the random type killing that would seem to indicate.

 

[cluciano63]

Great points... I do think back to RL saying how "pristine" the scene was and this is in contradiction to the accounts from LE stating the murder was so horrific. We are obviously missing a few parts of this puzzle. I hope with all my heart LE isn't missing these pieces!

It is possible the murders did not involve blood. And they would be horrific no matter how they died. So the area may well have looked clean and ordinary...

 

[Tssiemer]

I mean I think any scene with young innocent dead children is horrific.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Shiressleuth]

Although it's hard to see specific features on his face, you can definitely pick out 'the type"..IYKWIM. The nose, the shape of his face, his stance, his clothing, etc...

I, too, see BG's everywhere. And I'm in Canada.

On a stupid side note because I'm gabby today...I'm one of those people that usually give everyone nicknames. Every day when I go out, there's an older guy that sits on his balcony and says hello/good morning to me. I call him balcony guy.

Yesterday, when I came home and said, "Hi, balcony guy!"...He told me to call him BG, for short. :facepalm:

Oh dear. He doesn't know what he was saying. He doesn't look like BG does he? That would be too creepy.

 

[crhedBngr]

Although it's hard to see specific features on his face, you can definitely pick out 'the type"..IYKWIM. The nose, the shape of his face, his stance, his clothing, etc...

I, too, see BG's everywhere. And I'm in Canada.

On a stupid side note because I'm gabby today...I'm one of those people that usually give everyone nicknames. Every day when I go out, there's an older guy that sits on his balcony and says hello/good morning to me. I call him balcony guy.

Yesterday, when I came home and said, "Hi, balcony guy!"...He told me to call him BG, for short. :facepalm:

RBBM

I see them everywhere in Southern California as well, when taking my daily ambles. Yesterday, I saw "BG" painted on the side of a van, advertising some business, and my mind went immediately to this case.

Just goes to show you how this case is never far from our minds.

 

[Confusion]

I understand what you mean...thinking, though, that the part of RL's land where the girls were found is a grey area as far as seeming like it could be public property (meaning there may not be a "no trespassing sign, etc), so it would make sense for that spot to be taped off. A barn or outbuilding of some sort on RL's property or another neighbor's property may not need to be taped off as it is clearly private property. If a barn, grain bin, garage was the murder site and it's on a private farm would it definitely be taped off? Just thinking that photographs, video and lots of evidence could be taken from a scene in one visit and a trip back out by LE may not be necessary. I'm just thinking and these are all really questions...

And, I am NOT making a case for RL being BG at all...All IMO.

They would still put the yellow tape up because without it the property owner and anyone with his/her permission would be allowed to enter legally.

 

[Confusion]

I know there aren't many here who agree with me about them being taken on the north end of the bridge, but I'm still going to bring it up occasionally.

If he had his car parked at/near the cemetery like many seem to think, he may have been walking them in that direction to get to his car. If he was controlling them by holding onto one of them and threatening to hurt her if the other one didn't obey, they were both athletic enough to possibly think they could outrun him if she broke free. If she did and they ran and he caught one, or both, of them near the wooded area, he may have changed his mind about going to the car and just brought them "down the hill" to a more private area. MOO

 

[foxbluff]

Although it's hard to see specific features on his face, you can definitely pick out 'the type"..IYKWIM. The nose, the shape of his face, his stance, his clothing, etc...

I, too, see BG's everywhere. And I'm in Canada.

On a stupid side note because I'm gabby today...I'm one of those people that usually give everyone nicknames. Every day when I go out, there's an older guy that sits on his balcony and says hello/good morning to me. I call him balcony guy.

Yesterday, when I came home and said, "Hi, balcony guy!"...He told me to call him BG, for short. :facepalm:

That's a good one!!

I'm now seeing BG as "naked man on shark" which some folks are trying to ID...now all I have to do is submit his name..

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

Rage, some sort of retribution/revenge? Think about LE's statements early on about this case being "complex" and with a "twist". Of course, there's no way for us to determine exactly what they meant, but it's possible that the case and/or BG's profile doesn't fit the normal crime profiles for this type of crime. Considering that SA is a factor in something like 75% of the murders of teen girls, No SA would definitely make it complex and "with a twist" IMO.

But what could be the motive if there was no SA and the girls were unknown to him ? I don't follow the random type killing that would seem to indicate.

 

[Spiritecho]

http://cbs4indy.com/2017/05/12/ahea...-and-libby-family-pushes-forward-for-answers/

Ahead of Mother’s Day, the families are opening up about how they continue to push through the pain every day.

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

My biggest discrepancy with this theory is where BG and Liberty were located on the bridge when she filmed him. BG(according to GH's final video and assessment) was ~70-80' from the SE end, and Liberty was likely off that end of the bridge when she filmed him. To walk them back across would have risked encountering other hikers, whereas taking them "down the hill" just off the SE end, and across the shallow section of the creek, would get them out of sight of anyone on the trail or who might have been mounting the NW end of the bridge.

I know there aren't many here who agree with me about them being taken on the north end of the bridge, but I'm still going to bring it up occasionally.

If he had his car parked at/near the cemetery like many seem to think, he may have been walking them in that direction to get to his car. If he was controlling them by holding onto one of them and threatening to hurt her if the other one didn't obey, they were both athletic enough to possibly think they could outrun him if she broke free. If she did and they ran and he caught one, or both, of them near the wooded area, he may have changed his mind about going to the car and just brought them "down the hill" to a more private area. MOO

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo I cannot see taking the girls away, and then bringing their bodies back. It does not seem like easy terrain even if one was familiar, and would probably be dark if this were to be attempted. Yes, these girls were young teens but of adult size. Not an easy thing to do.

Also, why do it? If BG had taken or forced the girls elsewhere, why on earth bring them back? Makes no sense at all to me and I do not believe it happened. Jmo

 

[SomeoneElse333]

I've shared this story before, but no, when doing a search, you really don't necessarily look UP. I was involved in a search once, in winter, at night, where we didn't look up and the individual had hung themselves pretty high up. Right above the command post. Directly above. No one noticed until returning from the search in the morning.

Edited to add: forgot another daytime search in which the individual had hung themselves in their own backyard. There was a suicide note and we were searching the woods near the house. His poor wife found him a few hours after the search started. My fire department has learned to look up now, but seriously, it just isn't a natural inclination.

I wondered about this very early on to. I thought perhaps the initial search did not yield the bodies because people were assuming they were still alive and perhaps just in a bit of trouble. If that's the case how very sad.

The above is just my opinion.

 

[EyeCandy]

[video=twitter;862717717458976772]https://twitter.com/FBIMostWanted/status/862717717458976772[/video]

this pic made hair on back of my neck raise

BRUCE EMERSON SAWHILL

on FBI most wanted list now in MISSOURI

The link I posted won't show up here

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cac/bruce-emerson-sawhill

 

[Jethro4WS]

Unlikely, in my opinion because then the scenario would become that LE was aware of the primary crime scene where the homicide occurred by the time the autopsy was completed, that was also just outside of Delph in Carroll County. (Per the Petition to Seal Autopsy Report).

If there had been another crime scene location where the actual homicides occured it would have commanded as much or more forensic attention as the discovery site. I noticed a media report that indicated the crime scene area on RL's land was taped off for two weeks as investigators "turned over every leaf". We saw dozens of LE vehicles parked from the sky via media helicopter while they worked at the site. That both the media and LE are keeping the homicide location a secret, I'd have to wonder what's the point?

If the girls had been killed elsewhere at placed where they were found it does not necessarily mean that they were taken nearby and could have been taken many miles from the bridge area. So, I would not presume that LE had found the murder scene as well.

For what it is worth, until LE says otherwise I do not believe they have found the murder scene. The level of activity and large personnel presence in conjunction with the searches at both the Bicycle Bridge location and RL's property suggests to me that LE is looking for a location where the girls were present and/or murdered. The removal of RL's truck suggests that LE is looking for a vehicle. Either a truck, a light-colored vehicle that takes a specific tire, or a light-colored truck that takes a specific tire.

I could very well be wrong.

 

[MistyWaters]

Rage, some sort of retribution/revenge? Think about LE's statements early on about this case being "complex" and with a "twist". Of course, there's no way for us to determine exactly what they meant, but it's possible that the case and/or BG's profile doesn't fit the normal crime profiles for this type of crime. Considering that SA is a factor in something like 75% of the murders of teen girls, No SA would definitely make it complex and "with a twist" IMO.

Pure speculation but whenever I think of this comment I can't help but wonder if MP is suggesting in a round about way that it's strongly suspected only one of the two girls was the intended target of retribution/revenge toward a close family relative for perceived wrongs. The other had the opportunity to escape because the perp wasn't someone known to either of them but instead chose to try to protect her best friend.

"Patty said no one could break the bond the two girls shared – even their killer.

“They stuck together. I don’t know exactly what happened out there that day, but I imagine there was probably an opportunity for one, or both, to separate and try to make a break different ways, but those girls loved each other,” said Patty. “They were good friends, neither one of them left each other’s side.”
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/crime/delphi-indiana-who-were-liberty-german-and-abigail-williams

 

[MistyWaters]

If the girls had been killed elsewhere at placed where they were found it does not necessarily mean that they were taken nearby and could have been taken many miles from the bridge area. So, I would not presume that LE had found the murder scene as well.

For what it is worth, until LE says otherwise I do not believe they have found the murder scene. The level of activity and large personnel presence in conjunction with the searches at both the Bicycle Bridge location and RL's property suggests to me that LE is looking for a location where the girls were present and/or murdered. The removal of RL's truck suggests that LE is looking for a vehicle. Either a truck, a light-colored vehicle that takes a specific tire, or a light-colored truck that takes a specific tire.

I could very well be wrong.

The Petition to seal Autopsy report, I think we all became transfixed on the date of death and overlooked the fact that the location is also stated.

On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana."
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ty-German-14-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-47&styleid=21

 

[Jethro4WS]

If the media helicopters were flying low enough to see what one reporter believed to be girls clothing in the creek, I think they'd have spotted any other areas the were taped off as a crime scene, along with the large presence of crime scene investigators and other personnel. The actual location of death is very important in terms of forensic and medical examination, probably more so than a secondary location, if the bodies are moved. It connects the perpetrator directly to the murder, as opposed the far lesser crime of being involved by moving a dead body. The two weeks they spent "turning over every leaf" at the crime scene suggests they were incredibly thorough at that location because it was also the site of a homicide. If there was a primary location in an outside building, it wouldn't really make sense that they'd spend hardly any time processing that as opposed to the lesser crime scene because that's be where the most important evidence to prosecute the perpetrator would be found.

I also think this case would be moving forward at a distinct disadvantage if the known location of the homicide was elsewhere and kept secret, considering the energy that LE has put into pleading for tips.

The origins of outbuilding theory iirc began with Abby's death occuring a day later, which was also debunked by the legal information in the Petition to Seal the Autopsy Report.

The reporter that mentioned girls clothing was a photo journalist for a newspaper (Pharos Tribune) who was at the area taking photographs. That reporter had no connection to the helicopter which belongs to a TV station in Indianapolis WRTV-6.

 

[megswede]

Copying my response below to Wondergirl on the Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook thread. I don't know how to copy Wondergirl's post, though. It relates to both cases.
------What a great, interesting piece of information! In addition to LaPorte, Wiechman Pig also has a location in Delhi, IA which is 1 hour (60 miles) from Seven Bridges County Park. City name of DELHI (IA) eerily similar to DELPHI (IN), may or may not mean anything. See Wiechman locations on their website:*** http://wiechmanpig.com/stations.html* MOO of course but too many similarities for me in these two cases. Bridges, water, remote areas, reversed dates, two young girls, etc. <modsnip>