IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #58

[mtnlites]

I was watching Dateline earlier about these two women's deaths up in Oregon. They both belonged to the same church. Attacked/killed several days apart, exactly one year from each other.Police found a picture of the two women together, taken August 14th (4 years earlier) and August 14th was also the date Woman A was killed.All these threads tying the two together. Woman B went for a walk and parked her car in front a friend's house. That same friend also knew Woman A and was interviewed during HER murder.

Turned out it was just some random guy, a drifter, who picked the women out of thin air and decided to kill them "just to see what it felt like." He had no idea of the other things, which all just happened to be coincides.

My point is that it's going to be interesting when this case finally comes to a head. And if anything we've discovered or thought had any relevance at all.

 

[ClementineK]

"Unlike Bundy, most serial killers have very well defined geographic areas of operation. Bundy twice escaped from police custody and committed at least thirty homicides in the states of Washington, Utah, Florida, Colorado, Oregon, Idaho and California" - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/5-myths-about-serial-killers-and-why-they-persist-excerpt/

IMO the likeliness of BG operating outside of Indiana is slim but not impossible.

Thank you!! Very good thoughts and quote!!

 

[Jabarn]

I don't personally think two killers were involved, but if there were there would be even more hope for this to be solved. Like I've seen said before, "Two can keep a secret if one is dead." Let's hope there's enough usable evidence that if someone spills the beans it could solidify the case.

But like peedoffinny said - That's a tough secret to keep, period. Let's hope that he can't do it!!

I doubt it was two killers, either. For starters, there is only a lone, perverted image of the only suspect taken by the brave Libby. Secondly, there is only one voice capture of the suspect by Libby. Libby did all the work. The saddest thing imaginable is it doesn't work to catch this inhumane killer of young girls.

I do appreciate all the thoughts bouncing around here. ❤️

 

[JLSChook]

I agree with you. I am not a killer and I can still think of 10 different things to do with a dead body that are better ideas than returning it to where I took it in the first place.

Even Otis Toole, who had an IQ in the low 70's dumped his victims in hard to find places. (Most of them, anyway)

It just makes no sense to me.

 

[cluciano63]

If he has not been charged with a felony before, he does not have to be especially smart or lucky. Just walk/drive away. Well...he is lucky the image is so terrible, who would have thought that?

 

[mtnlites]

If he has not been charged with a felony before, he does not have to be especially smart or lucky. Just walk/drive away. Well...he is lucky the image is so terrible, who would have thought that?

I think he's pretty lucky that the one image we have of him apparently looks and dresses not only like half the men in Delphi, but half the men in the midwest.

 

[Jabarn]

Even Otis Toole, who had an IQ in the low 70's dumped his victims in hard to find places. (Most of them, anyway)

It just makes no sense to me.

Some people with low IQs have good street smarts, based on their experiences. Otis Toole, from my understanding, was in the mildly intellectually disabled range, perhaps even in the borderline range (meaning his intellect was low, but may have hovered around the score needed to be considered what was formerly known as "mental retardation", and his adaptive skills were higher, disqualifying him from being truly considered intellectually disabled).

 

[Jabarn]

I think he's pretty lucky that the one image we have of him apparently looks and dresses not only like half the men in Delphi, but half the men in the midwest.

That's another aspect that is interesting to me. He doesn't seem to have any warning signs in his appearance. He seems to be clean. He seems to have nice outdoor clothing, like any guy in the area would have. He blends in.

More rationale for a SK, IMO. Hope the DNA angle pans out, hope familial DNA testing is considered (carefully) and most of all, hope there is justice for the girls.

 

[JLSChook]

Some people with low IQs have good street smarts, based on their experiences. Otis Toole, from my understanding, was in the mildly intellectually disabled range, perhaps even in the borderline range (meaning his intellect was low, but may have hovered around the score needed to be considered what was formerly known as "mental retardation", and his adaptive skills were higher, disqualifying him from being truly considered intellectually disabled).

Thanks. I knew all that.

It still doesn't negate the fact that it would be pretty stupid of a killer to "kidnap" 2 girls, take them to a 2nd location, kill them, and bring them back to the original "kidnap" spot. That will never resonate with me.

I've been involved in teaching some self defense classes for men, women, and especially children. One of the biggest things we stress is do anything to not let a kidnapper take you to a secondary location because that's where the majority of victims are killed. The perps don't bring them back to the place they were taken from.

That would be idiotic, IMO

 

[Jabarn]

Thanks. I knew all that.

It still doesn't negate the fact that it would be pretty stupid of a killer to "kidnap" 2 girls, take them to a 2nd location, kill them, and bring them back to the original "kidnap" spot. That will never resonate with me.

I've been involved in teaching some self defense classes for men, women, and especially children. One of the biggest things we stress is do anything to not let a kidnapper take you to a secondary location because that's where the majority of victims are killed. The perps don't bring them back to the place they were taken from.

That would be idiotic, IMO

I 100% agree with you. I can't for the life me understand, though, how this guy hasn't been caught.

I, too, think they were killed in the area where the bodies were found. I don't think, given the timeframe we understand, the girls were transported to a nearby location, and brought back to the final crime scene. It all happened there, after Libby recorded "down the hill."

 

[Jennifer17]

I can't imagine why he didn't take their phones from them. That seems really odd to me.

 

[Wild Rose]

I can't imagine why he didn't take their phones from them. That seems really odd to me.

Maybe he didn't see the phone or maybe he did see it but didn't steal it thinking it would ping the direction that he left. I hope that he didn't see the phone because maybe it captured a lot.

 

[Wild Rose]

That's another aspect that is interesting to me. He doesn't seem to have any warning signs in his appearance. He seems to be clean. He seems to have nice outdoor clothing, like any guy in the area would have. He blends in.

More rationale for a SK, IMO. Hope the DNA angle pans out, hope familial DNA testing is considered (carefully) and most of all, hope there is justice for the girls.

Totally agree. IMO FBI quick presence, multi state signage, no local I.D. I really believe he was incarcerated. He may keep things to himself but that level of behavior must be hard to keep a lid on. Sometimes you see when the mask comes off, you see the real individual, so extreme.

 

[Jabarn]

Totally agree. IMO FBI quick presence, multi state signage, no local I.D. I really believe he was incarcerated. He may keep things to himself but that level of behavior must be hard to keep a lid on. Sometimes you see when the mask comes off, you see the real individual, so extreme.

By that, I am thinking you are saying, this is someone incarcerated for a crime related to young girls, and released? If so, it makes sense to me.

Yes, the mask comes off when they think no one important to them is looking. Libby put a roadblock on that plan, and the world is alerted to an image. Yet, no identification by anyone. Surely his mother, surely a friend, someone, would get it, see the picture, and call in the tip. Why aren't they?

 

[cluciano63]

Well the fact that he dresses in such a common fashion, he may well dress like that all the time, as so many men seem to do. He may just be ordinary.

 

[DeDee]

This is the main reason why I have trouble believing 2 people are involved, much less 3 or more. One can keep a secret, two have difficulty. With a small group, it's almost impossible. Someone WILL talk eventually.

Let us suppose, for a moment, that it was a father and son team + perhaps the son's girlfriend who later ends up dead on the same day that ISP releases the images pulled from the video. Girlfriend freaks out over the exposure to the images. Boyfriend accidentally shoots her. Hence, only two know about the crime = father and son. Well, and perhaps also the person who wanted this to happen. None of the three would talk but they may give themselves away using a different but common method. Think SM.
For those who wish, this is my :cow:

 

[Jabarn]

Well the fact that he dresses in such a common fashion, he may well dress like that all the time, as so many men seem to do. He may just be ordinary.

I know. Except he's a child murderer.

Good night, everyone. Probably getting on your nerves posting so much tonight. Hope to wake up to breaking news in Delphi, and not here 40 years from now wondering what was missed. �� Justice for the girls.

 

[Falling Down]

Some people with low IQs have good street smarts, based on their experiences. Otis Toole, from my understanding, was in the mildly intellectually disabled range, perhaps even in the borderline range (meaning his intellect was low, but may have hovered around the score needed to be considered what was formerly known as "mental retardation", and his adaptive skills were higher, disqualifying him from being truly considered intellectually disabled).

Arthur Shawcross was pretty dumb, but intelligent enough to dump his victims a little ways away from where they were killed, albeit near his favorite fishing spots. He eluded detection so well, he was talking to the undercover cops who were looking for him, in the area where he would pick up his victims. Little did LE know they had two SK's on their hands, both were working the same neighborhood, and the 2nd was identified only after he died.

Crazy stuff.

 

[Alethea]

Let us suppose, for a moment, that it was a father and son team + perhaps the son's girlfriend who later ends up dead on the same day that ISP releases the images pulled from the video. Girlfriend freaks out over the exposure to the images. Boyfriend accidentally shoots her. Hence, only two know about the crime = father and son. Well, and perhaps also the person who wanted this to happen. None of the three would talk but they may give themselves away using a different but common method. Think SM.
For those who wish, this is my :cow:

(Is this a hypothetical, or based on a real situation we can't discuss? I don't want to start searching if you were just giving an example for illustrative purposes...Thanks!)

 

[Falling Down]

I am honestly starting to think that this killer is either one of the smartest criminals around or simply one of the luckiest.

Or he's a professional.