IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #58

[tuffgongc9]

Extremely plausible. Very accessible prior to the murders.

IMO I don't think it's as likely as a quick crime and escape occurring down near the creek, but I also agree that a vehicle being involved is plausible. 'Down the hill' was almost certainly recorded at the top of the embankment that leads down to the access road. Perhaps, it was 'down the hill' to a car parked here. It's possible they noticed a carparked here beneath them and that could have spooked them into taking a video, who knows. If they were put into a vehicle by one person they would have had to have been restrained heavily and then hidden out of view somehow. It would've been awfully hard for one person to drive a car and simultaneously hold two girls hostage even if they were restrained. Maybe there were more people involved. Maybe they were drugged and incapacitated. A car still seems unlikely to me. I think that if LE were looking for a potential vehicle, even without knowing anything about it, then SOMEONE in Delphi would have known and it would've gotten out. They would have asked for any witnesses to any strange cars using any of the roads in the area. That's my opinion.

I think a car was used in the Iowa case though and the girls bodies were found roughly 25 miles from the spot they were abducted from their bikes. So it definitely shouldn't be ruled out at this point.

 

[MistyWaters]

Perhaps this is where phone was found?

Just a thought...

That's what I was thinking as well. The cellphone and possibly a weapons search as well. Although it looks like they're just walking, searching by looking down, they may have sensing equipment and I just can't remember the proper name.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Do we have a thread for the girl who was shot in Delphi a week after Abby and Libby's murder?

No. That was ruled accidental, so it isn't a crime (or a missing person) and therefore I don't believe it qualifies to have a thread here.

 

[Mercedes]

Link? Thanks!

Alethea,

We had an opportunity to discuss the accidental shooting case on here and it was determined not to be related and we are not allowed to discuss it any further.

Sorry.

 

[Mercedes]

Her name is Halee Rathgbeber, she has a thread.

IN - Halee Rathgeber, 20, fatally shot, Warrick County, 24 April 2017 *Arrest*
sorry, don't know how to link.

Sorry, that is not the same case.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I have seen a number of posts from earlier today about the water depth/flow that I brought up the other day. I want to make it clear that the purpose of bringing that up again was to make sure that people keep that kind of information in mind when evaluating or theorizing on the flow of the crime. Most importantly I wanted to make sure that people recognize that the creek would have looked quite a bit different on the 13th of February than it did on even the 14th of February, let alone what it looked like weeks later when JM made those videos.

The creek would not have been an impassible barrier. It was crossable. However, very little of it would have been ankle deep on the 13th compared to the 14th or when you see JM's videos.

Just wanted to make sure I was clear about my posts on the subject. They are meant to inform people of the facts of the conditions of that creek that were known for those days and for people to take those facts into consideration when working on this case.

 

[MistyWaters]

No. That was ruled accidental, so it isn't a crime (or a missing person) and therefore I don't believe it qualifies to have a thread here.

If I'm thinking of the same incident, the young woman was not shot in Delphi. I thought it occured in Lafayette, although her connection to Delphi was that she had attended school there. Or was that something different?

ETA: And was it known to be a shooting or was the cause of death ever publicized? I don't know that it was.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Agree completely. How plausible is it that he actually DID have a car down on that road at the bottom of "the hill"? How accessible is that road?


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It is likely less accessible today than it was on the day the girls were at that bridge. Much like anything else, a lot more barriers have gone up in that area that weren't present on February 13th. There is wire fencing just off the South end of the bridge that you can see in the JM videos that were taken several weeks later that was not there on the 13th or even the 14th of February (per media photos) as just one example. Closing the side entrance off of 300N with a gate, is another. Fencing off access to the bridge itself (likely on both sides) with chain-link that went up a couple of weeks ago is another example. However, back on the 13th of February I would expect that the road that runs under the bridge on the South side would have been accessible by anyone.

 

[whiskers]

They have not publicly"exonerated" RL as a result of the search, and we know he is still involved in the investigation but not talking. It must be difficult to be "involved" if you have nothing to say.


[FONT=&quot]"It's just a normal course of this investigation," said ISP Sgt. Tony Slocum. "We've served multiple search warrants so far. They can either exonerate a person or maybe require law enforcement to take a closer look."[/FONT]

I'm sure Delphi residents can sleep better at night knowing he's off the streets and behind bars.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Does anyone know if RL's truck was ever returned to his property?

Somewhere a few threads back I recall someone that seemed local saying RL's truck was back on his property. But we don't have any kind of confirmation of that in the form of media photos though I doubt the media could be bothered to follow up on such things.

 

[Alethea]

Alethea,

We had an opportunity to discuss the accidental shooting case on here and it was determined not to be related and we are not allowed to discuss it any further.

Sorry.

Got it, thanks Mercedes.

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm sure Delphi residents can sleep better at night knowing he's off the streets and behind bars.

I don't know about that. It seems the only reason he got arrested was because this case drew LE attention upon him. But in the almost 4 years if his drinking or driving menaced the town, don't you think he'd already have got reported by somebody and arrested long ago?

 

[rosesfromangels]

I don't know about that. It seems the only reason he got arrested was because this case drew LE attention upon him. But in the almost 4 years if his drinking or driving menaced the town, don't you think he'd already have got reported by somebody and arrested long ago?

It seems as if some small towns are alot more tolerant with their resident "characters".

 

[Jethro4WS]

If I'm thinking of the same incident, the young woman was not shot in Delphi. I thought it occured in Lafayette, although her connection to Delphi was that she had attended school there. Or was that something different?

ETA: And was it known to be a shooting or was the cause of death ever publicized? I don't know that it was.

Much of it was learned through SM. And there were more than one direct and one-person removed connections to one of the victims in our case. But there was no media coverage, let alone a mention of it, that I am aware of.

 

[MistyWaters]

It seems as if some small towns are alot more tolerant with their resident "characters".

Yes I think they are too.

 

[DeDee]

It is right to wait for the release of information. A petition to seal only requires an affidavit where facts are stated, to the best of their knowledge at that point in time. Some of these facts can turn out to be determined at a later time to not to be a fact at all and/or is actually untrue. So long as an attested statement of fact is not made of something that is known to be false at the timethen the judge must accept it on its face as true.

Often times you will see this with search warrants. With a case search warrants are applied for at different dates going forward in time from the time of the crime. If you were to read the affidavits it is not uncommon to see facts attested to in the earliest warrants completely missing or changed in later warrants. For example, in the Missy Bevers case the earliest three search warrants (prior to her autopsy) mentioned wounds and attributed those to indicate a mechanism of death (without using that precise term). Later warrants starting just hours after the autopsy no longer attested to such facts - they were no longer stated in any warrant going forward.

We have no way of knowing that the attested statement or alleged fact of the location of the murder is truly a fact or merely a "to the best of their knowledge" kind of fact at the time of the preparation of the Petition To Seal. Until LE releases more information or this goes to trial the veracity of that fact cannot be ascertained.

Jethro, Kind Sir, I pray you do not mind this post being repeated as it contains important information meant for careful consideration. Thank you for imparting your profound wisdom with us.

 

[tuffgongc9]

I personally think the crime occurred down near the creek, but I find myself constantly wondering under what circumstances they got across the water. If their bodies were found where they were last known to be I think everyone would be in agreement that it happened right there.

At first I thought perhaps they were forced across the creek at gunpoint. Where they ultimately ended up was certainly more secluded from any potential hikers. It was also a nice large flat area. It would've allowed the killer a better 'venue' if you will to commit a potential assault and then kill. Also perhaps his transportation or escape was up that way near the graveyard to a country road. You could easily drive out this way and have no one notice.

Then yesterday I was thinking it would be more plausible if one or both of the girls ran through the creek in attempt to escape. This is still plausible, maybe the perp was on the SW side of them and this was the way to go to get away from him ASAP. Still through the water is a slow escape. If it was one middle aged to older man they had a chance to outrun him. I thought at first that maybe through the creek was the fastest way out of the woods and into a clearing. This would be a good place to escape into the cemetery and into view of route 300(?) however, there are other properties just as close on the same side of the creek. Maybe it was instinctual and one or both just took off without thinking into the water. Who knows what was going through those poor girl's heads. If they ran different ways it seems unlikely the perp (if one person) could ever corral both of them without firing a gun.

The last thing I've been thinking is that they were killed and/or assaulted rather quickly after 'down the hill'. The perp knew he had at least a few minutes before anyone would be remotely near him on the trail. Maybe he killed them and then intentionally dragged them through the creek to try to wash away forensic evidence. He could have left them in the creek, but they would likely have been found much faster if they were left in the water. Maybe he even used something like a deer dragger or rope, either could have been concealed beneath his jacket. He took their bodies to a more secluded place away from the trails where he knew they wouldn't be found right away. He surely bought himself more time by doing this.

This seems logical (to me), but we don't know the cause of death. You'd think there would be an obvious crime scene but I get a strong feeling they were strangled or garroted and their would be minimal evidence of a crime.

I apologize if I'm rambling. I know it's a lot of maybe's and I bring up more questions than I try to answer, but I'm just trying to rationalize any likely scenario in my head that they crossed the creek because this is the biggest mystery to me. One thing that is obvious is that the perp (assuming BG) would not have gone back on bridge or trail the same way he came for fear of running into anyone else. It seems likely that he made his escape up through near the graveyard after leaving the bodies. So essentially I'm saying he had plenty of motives to get the bodies to where they were ultimately found, it's just that all the circumstances of them getting there through the water seem a bit of a stretch.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Just a random thought....

I wonder how many people in Delphi have had a "gut feeling" about someone and provided LE (surreptitiously) someone's DNA sample via their toothbrush, etc.
I bet more than a couple.

 

[MistyWaters]

Much of it was learned through SM. And there were more than one direct and one-person removed connections to one of the victims in our case. But there was no media coverage, let alone a mention of it, that I am aware of.

Yes that's what I recall. IIRC a cousin shared a last name but someone also said the name was very common and didn't necessarily mean anything. Her death may have been a result of an accidental overdose or suicide and that's why it's unreported. But it certainly didn't involve a shooting in Delphi. MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

"We have a killer on the streets running around our state, our nation. We need to get that. And I need people's help to do that. Somebody knows. Please call it in." Patty said."
http://www.wthr.com/article/large-turnout-for-celebration-of-life-for-delphi-murder-victims

If MP has suspicions, speculation could be read into his statement -- the perp does not live in Delphi but is in Indiana and is not presently incarcerated.