IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #6

[Ray_of_hope]

No, not at all. They probably are. What I'm saying is I think they are also collecting DNA samples from volunteers in hopes of getting a direct match to DNA collected at the crime scene. IOW not just from databases.

In Jenise Wright's case LE went door to door in the mobile home park where she lived, asking men for DNA swabs. One ended up being a match. Sorry, I should have been clearer.

The case escapes me at the moment but I remember another case was solved by familial DNA. A cousin of the perp or brother... Maybe someone visiting. It's possible, I suppose.
https://www.creators.com/read/diane-dimond/02/17/shaking-the-family-tree-to-solve-crimes

"When a young man named Christopher Franklin was arrested on a weapons charge in 2008, his DNA was registered in CODIS. Later, during periodic rechecks of the Grim Sleeper's DNA, a familial match popped up indicating Christopher Franklin was closely related. The conclusion was that Franklin was either the father of or the son of the serial killer. A detective posed as a busboy at a pizza place, and upon testing a partly eaten slice Christopher's father had left, a familial match to the crime scene DNA was found. As a result, 57-year-old Lonnie David Franklin was convicted of 10 murders and sentenced to death."

 

[MsMarple]

No worries! Thanks for clarifying. Wondering why the perp in the case you're referencing willingly gave DNA? I'm assuming he thought he didn't leave any, but thats pretty ballsy. I'd be surprised if that worked in this case.

I don't want to go too far off topic but yeah, LE was lucky to get that sample in Jenise's case. The idea of LE asking for random samples is controversial and brings up questions like what do they do with samples that don't match - do they have any right to keep them? And so on.

In Jenise's case the people in the mobile home park were quite cooperative. The perp, 17-year-old Gabe Gaeta tried to get out of giving a sample claiming that he wasn't feeling well but his mom made sure he responded when LE returned. IMO that was a big stroke of luck but I'm glad it worked.

 

[WVWoman]

Looks at the pictures of this place.
They were very alone out there and I know kids should be able to go places but IMO
That's not a place for two kids.
Look at it .
This is the kind of place these monsters go.

I never blamed anyone .......not rubbing salt in anyone's wounds. I wouldn't want my giris out there.v
There are some very bad people out there

Let me upload a picture of my back yard ...I live in very rural WV looks just like this picture minus the bridge....it's not the area it the A$$hole that come into it .... lay the blame on the perv's not the parents.

 

[crhedBngr]

I'm sticking with the modest age range of 40-70 years old.

Realistically we can't narrow it down any further than that. Older men all dress the same. Raise your hand if your husband, father, or grandfather dress in this way. I'll start...

I tend to take long ambles around town, and everywhere I looked yesterday, I saw older men in "Dad" pants.

 

[jkloc420]

I let my teens go hiking in groups around here. I realize things have changed these days but stranger to stranger danger has really low stats. I refuse to be a helicopter parent and just hope my teens follow safety rules and take the extra precautions if a situation arises.

people can't live their lives in fear of some sick individual with twisted ideas. The parents and sister did nothing wrong. They were 13 and 14 year old girls dropped off in a park in a fairly safe community. So you are correct.

 

[barcode]

Makes the most since. I guess I had a false sense that since they stated it came from a video that they had said video.

Just so we are on the same page, the pics of the perp came from a video, that we do not know the source, speculation is that it may have came from the girls phone. Your previous comment was to Liberty filming Abigail on the bridge and I am not aware that she was filming her, we have seen two images but they were still pictures, not frames taken from a video, hope this explains it better.

 

[Jennifer.k]

Looks at the pictures of this place.
They were very alone out there and I know kids should be able to go places but IMO
That's not a place for two kids.
Look at it .
This is the kind of place these monsters go.

I never blamed anyone .......not rubbing salt in anyone's wounds. I wouldn't want my giris out there.v
There are some very bad people out there

I agree with you but also don't blame the parents or anyone for letting their children be children and explore these places.
I wouldn't walk there by myself but I'm a scaredy cat who always thinks the worse will happen when it probably won't. My daughter is 6 years old and we live in a very rural area and I don't know how I'm ever going to let her go out and play when she's older. The thought fills me with fear because of cases like this and because ive scared myself silly watching crime docs .safety in numbers isn't even safe anymore and I can't bear to think what these poor girls endured.

 

[gregjrichards]

Sorry, OT. Gregjrichards, I wish for you and your wife a speedy recovery and some better wifi so you can continue to help with sleuthing and do a :happydance: when the monster is caught. :getwell:

Thanks so much. I hope this monster is caught ASAP.

greg mate, can't keep away from that delicious hospital cuisine?

Seriously, get better soon!

Thank you for being so kind.

 

[Hoosier952]

I'm sticking with the modest age range of 40-70 years old.

Realistically we can't narrow it down any further than that. Older men all dress the same. Raise your hand if your husband, father, or grandfather dress in this way. I'll start...

My husband is 34 and dresses like this as do many of his friends who work blue collar jobs.

I let my teens go hiking in groups around here. I realize things have changed these days but stranger to stranger danger has really low stats. I refuse to be a helicopter parent and just hope my teens follow safety rules and take the extra precautions if a situation arises.

I'm the same. My kids aren't teenagers yet, so I don't allow them to go far (just because our road is dangerous and I won't allow them to trespass). I just know that things aren't more dangerous than when I was their age and it's so incredibly rare for these things to happen. I was roaming the entire town and some of the neighboring towns on my bike when I was their age. I'm doing my best to allow my kids the same independence I had when I was their age.

 

[SheRuns]

Just curious.. Thoughts on liberty filming Abby on the bridge and while suspect is walking closer she inadvertently looks/turns that way catching him on film because he's getting closer. Would explain the arm/jacket looking image in second pic.

Why would they not release a video especially if it involves any sort of passing or interaction??

I am trying to think... if I was looking to identify "anything" not just a murder suspect..
And I have a video, that only produces 2 poor images, I'm going to not only show the pics but the video in hopes I can really give a good visual image to the people I'm asking to help.

I am also now firmly in the camp saying this is from Liberty's phone and she may very well be the hero in all this!


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[crhedBngr]

Greg Richards: Feel better.

 

[margarita25]

I'm sticking with the modest age range of 40-70 years old.

Realistically we can't narrow it down any further than that. Older men all dress the same. Raise your hand if your husband, father, or grandfather dress in this way. I'll start...

(I dress this way :facepalm: )

(Eta: my ex and I used to have this joke...when we'd go out he'd say "You're not going to wear your fishing vest are you?" :biggrin: )

(Eta: Thinking about this further, I think it was my favorite "comfy black pants" that officially killed our relationship... :waitasec: ...you know, the "fat pants" for around the house? :giggle

 

[monkeypants]

I wonder if Libby had done what I have done before. Act like you are taking a selfie with a friend, but you are really taking a video of some creeper up ahead of you.

I'm not sure a 13 yr old would think about that. Also why would she record a guy coming towards her that isn't making eye contact and has his hands in his pocket? Why is that suspicious to an 8th grader....plus there is no way that little girl got that angle of height for the picture, not to mention this thing is zoomed in within an inch of its life...this guy was far away in this picture, he isn't a focal point.

 

[margarita25]

30 I think.

(I'm going with 40-55)

(Eta: Maaaybe mid to late thirties at the yoooungest. :moo: )

(Eta:If I haaad to pick a number, 45. No, 48. No, 52...)

 

[mamamac]

As a born and raised very small town midwestern girl I can honestly say I would have done exactly what this man told me to do or any adult for that matter. At 13-14 I don't think small town kids truly know the scope of evil in this world. I now have a 14 year old daughter and have talked to her about these girls and she said she would not have left her friend if she had a chance to run. She said "mom I could not live with the guilt if my friend died" . Libby and Abby probably had no idea until it was too late.

All MOO



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[Serf'nTheUSA]

people can't live their lives in fear of some sick individual with twisted ideas. The parents and sister did nothing wrong. They were 13 and 14 year old girls dropped off in a park in a fairly safe community. So you are correct.

Having a few daughters myself, and seeing the stories on the news all the time, I am of the firm belief that women should not go into isolated or desolate areas of forest preserves or nature trails alone. Two teenage girls is not better than being alone. Two teenage girls with two teenage boys and maybe the perp would have thought twice about attacking a group of four. I don't allow my daughters to go alone or with only girls into the woods near my home. Way too many creeps. This is not blaming the victim, I also don't travel into bad areas of the city either, it's just not safe. Public city parks or open areas, sure. But woodsy desolate areas, no, not safe for women, never has been in the history of civilization. There's a reason bad things happen to people who go into the woods in fairy tales from long long ago.

 

[monkeypants]

Looks at the pictures of this place.
They were very alone out there and I know kids should be able to go places but IMO
That's not a place for two kids.
Look at it .
This is the kind of place these monsters go.

I never blamed anyone .......not rubbing salt in anyone's wounds. I wouldn't want my giris out there.v
There are some very bad people out there

You and I don't always agree in our cases, but we do with this post for sure! Call me a helicopter or whatever you want but times HAVE changed and parents are fooling themselves.
These wooded places are NOT safe. Perhaps on a busy summer Saturday it might be more crowded etc but a week day? Kids feel invincible....they have no mortality ...it's up to the parents to foresee and prevent. It's just today's reality. Sad.

 

[margarita25]

I am leaning toward 40's, switches jobs a lot if works at all, maybe floats from town to town based on Job, Probably has some past but nothing serious just minor stuff and that is why no DNA on file linked to him and this is probably not his first time doing this. I believe it was a crime of opportunity and the girls were at the wrong place wrong time unfortunately.

(I'll go with that for sure!)

 

[Elainera]

Not sure if this has been posted yet as I'm not able to keep up today (too much going on in rl). If so I'm sorry!

This is the transcript of the interviews with Tobe Leazenby, Carroll County Sheriff, and Ronald Logan, the owner of the property where Abigail and Liberty were found, which aired yesterday on HLN Primetime Justice.

[20:05:00]CASAREZ: ... Joining us tonight is the sheriff from Carroll County, Sheriff Tobe Leazenby. Thank you so much for joining use. And I know that you are in the midst of this criminal investigation, but I want everybody to look at this picture of who you are now saying is the main suspect. That`s the word we`re getting, this person right here that you want anybody who knows who this is, has seen this person to come forward to your office. And I really want to look at the pictures carefully. What identifying features can you tell our audience that you see on this man that can help alert someone that they`re seeing him as they go about their daily life?

TOBE LEAZENBY, CARROLL COUNTY SHERIFF: I think, Jean, the main thing is the clothing, if they recognize the clothing of this individual, particularly those possibly connected with this individual, if they recognize it, just anything outward appearance-wise that may give someone an idea as to who it is and maybe it`s possibly being a relative.

CASAREZ: Do you see something on the right hand, his right-hand side, where his hand is? Is that his shirt coming down under the jacket, or is that something like a fanny pack right there?

LEAZENBY: That is something that`s still being evaluated in the investigation, Jean.

CASAREZ: OK. One other question, because I`ve really been looking at these photos -- the photo where his left leg is out -- see that? Do you see something that looks flat on his upper front thigh -- not that photo, the other photo -- but it looks like a board or something inside? Can you discern anything at all? Right there, it just looks very strange, his left leg on the left-hand side of your screen right there. Chief? Sheriff?

LEAZENBY: Yes, again, that`s again still being evaluated and being looked at thoroughly. And it`s still part of the investigation.

CASAREZ: So Sheriff, do you know anything about him at all? Anything? Do you know his name?

LEAZENBY: I cannot comment on that because of the ongoing investigation.

CASAREZ: Do you believe he`s still around town? Do you believe he`s in Delphi? Do you believe he`s far away from Delphi at this point?

LEAZENBY: Based on the tips and leads that we`re following into, I really can`t comment either way. We are following up on multiple leads. Yes, it is possible this individual may still be in our area. But again, we`re still checking into that.

CASAREZ: Do you have any identification of a vehicle at all that you think he was driving that people should be alerted on?

LEAZENBY: We are looking into various, again, tips and leads and reports of vehicles that may have been there. And in fact, we`re still inviting anyone to come forward that may have seen any vehicles in that area during that time period to share that with us and contact our hotline.

CASAREZ: Now, this photo right here -- this is the bridge, right? Am I correct? This is the Monon High bridge? OK. The photograph of the man who is the main suspect now -- he`s walking on what is the bridge?

LEAZENBY: Correct.

CASAREZ: And is that close to the entrance? Is that close to where Lindsey (sic) and Liberty and Abigail would have walked as they were walking toward the trail?

LEAZENBY: They had -- they had been, obviously, on that bridge. So that would be the area, yes.

CASAREZ: What time do you think that picture was taken of him?

LEAZENBY: Honestly don`t know at this stage.

CASAREZ: Then how do you know that he was there around the time that they were there?

LEAZENBY: Again, based on information as part of the ongoing investigation at this stage.

CASAREZ: Now, a relative dropped them off, these two young girls, for a couple of hours to just walk on the trail. Have you spoken to that relative?

LEAZENBY: Yes.

CASAREZ: So I would think that would be a pivotal witness right there as far as cars in the area, seeing anyone. Did anybody else see this person on that bridge, or is it just that photograph?

[20:10:06]LEAZENBY: Again, we`re following into the many leads that we have, and you know, without going into any kind of great detail, that`s something we`re looking into.

[20:20:04]CASAREZ: ...And joining me right now is the gentleman that owns the property where Liberty German and Abigail Williams girls were found. Ronald Logan join us by phone. Thank you so much, sir, and I`m so sorry that you`ve been thrust into this.

LOGAN (via telephone): I am, too. It`s been very traumatic.

CASAREZ: Well, I`m sure it has. I`m sure it has because I heard you say, you know, this was your land. You had nothing to do with this, of course, but this was your land. This was -- you know, this was your property. Can I ask you -- it was a week ago today that the family members called and said, They`re missing, we can`t find them, they`re not there to pick them up. Did you hear about these two girls being missing? Because I believe a week ago tonight, the searches began, right?

LOGAN: Yes, that`s true. I did not find out about it until after about 6:30 PM in the afternoon. People stopped here and asked for permission to go back on my property and said two girls were missing, and that`s the first I heard about it. It`s been a -- it`s been a -- OK.

CASAREZ: No, go ahead. What has the last week been like?

LOGAN: Well, it`s -- it`s been very -- really difficult to understand what all has been going on here. The pain and agony caused by the families and the -- to the families and the community is just beyond belief. But to have all this pain and agony happen in my -- basically, my back yard, is just -- I mean, it`s just -- it`s beginning to come home now because it`s really been difficult to understand that two little girls lost their life in my back yard (INAUDIBLE) It`s just beyond belief.

CASAREZ: So how did you find out that their bodies were on your property?

LOGAN: It was shortly after they were found. I had been in town, in Delphi, and was coming home, and I saw the -- when I went to town, they hadn`t been found yet. When I came home, they had been, and it was -- and then I found out that they were not -- that they were not alive. It was just -- it was horrible. I mean, I don`t know how you -- because (INAUDIBLE) all end well. And obviously, that`s not true.

CASAREZ: So did you go -- did you go out -- since this was your property, you find out that they are there. Did you go out to the crime scene yourself?

LOGAN: The crime scene has been closed off. It was not -- my property was not released back to me until late Wednesday. I went to the crime scene Thursday morning to try to get a feeling of it. And it`s still difficult to just...

LOGAN: What did you see when you went out there?

CASAREZ: There was not much to see, other than the crime scene tape around the area. The area was still very pristine. You couldn`t actually tell that there was any such a violent action.

CASAREZ: You didn`t see any blood? You didn`t see a gruesome scene?

LOGAN: No, nothing. The area was very, very pristine. There was nothing there to see. I mean, really...

CASAREZ: Was there one crime scene and one location from what you could tell, or two separate crime scenes because there were two victims?

LOGAN: Just one. One scene. And apparently, I assume that both were found in this area because that`s -- what I`m pointing at to now is all that -- is all that was there.

CASAREZ: Do you recognize the person in the photograph that law enforcement is saying is the main suspect at this point? Do you recognize this person?

LOGAN: No, I do not. If I had any idea who it was, I would have certainly said so before now. I have no idea.

CASAREZ: What are you hearing? Does anybody recognize this person?

LOGAN: I have not heard anyone say they recognize him. It`s a -- it`s a total blank right now.

[20:25:00]CASAREZ: Are people in the community scared that a double murderer is out there somewhere?

LOGAN: Yes. It is a big concern. I used to walk through my woods all the time, daytime, nighttime. Now I`m not sure if that`s a good idea now. My son and grandson come up here and play in that woods. Does that mean we can`t do that now? Or what should we do?

There is also a part with two attorneys weighing in.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1702/20/ptab.01.html

 

[Knox]

Ron Wilkins posted on the FB page that we can't link to that the body found is not related to Abby & Libby's case. He's the reporter who writes most of Abby & Libby's stories for the Lafayette Journal

I was thinking it would be unrelated. That makes the news conference tomorrow even more anticipatory. Hoping they release more details, they need to keep the public engaged and on the lookout.