IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

[Shiressleuth]

Timeline as published in MSM:

"Here’s a timeline of the case as it has developed so far:"

Monday, Feb. 13, 2017

-1 p.m. A family member drops off the girls at a trail near Monon High Bridge, an abandoned railroad bridge over Deer Creek.

-5:30 p.m. The girls fail to show up at a predetermined location to be picked up by a family member. They’re reported missing.

-Monday night: A large search effort involving volunteers and multiple law enforcement agencies gets underway. They scour the area in an attempt to find Liberty and Abigail. The search is called off due to darkness.

-12 a.m. Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby says in a news release that there is no reason to suspect foul play or to believe the girls are in immediate danger. The biggest concern is exposure to the elements.

Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2017

-Tuesday morning: The search resumes with teams of volunteers and police officers. The effort also includes K-9 units and dive teams.

-Noon: Searchers find two bodies about a half-mile away from the bridge.

-2 p.m. During a news conference, authorities announce the discovery of the bodies but give no indication of their identities. They say for the first time that “foul play” is suspected in connection with the case.

-4 p.m. Delphi Community Schools Superintendent Gregory Briles releases a statement saying that the bodies found in the afternoon are those of two “missing Delphi Community Middle School students” despite no confirmation from police.

Briles says grief counselors will be made available to students and staff. Briles later says school security will be stepped up. All after school activities at Delphi Community Middle School are canceled for the remainder of the week.

-7 p.m. The Delphi United Methodist Church opens for a vigil.

Wednesday, Feb. 15, 2017

-8 a.m. Autopsies are conducted in Terre Haute on the bodies discovered during Tuesday’s search. Local authorities convene a meeting after the autopsies are complete.

-10 a.m. Sgt. Kim Riley with Indiana State Police provides a brief update on the investigation. He says the autopsies are complete but declines to confirm the identities or discuss a suspect or person of interest in the case. He says police have received “hundreds of tips” from the community.

Riley advises parents to keep a close eye on their children and monitor their whereabouts.

-3 p.m. Indiana State Police and the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department hold a news conference confirming that the bodies found Tuesday are those of Liberty and Abigail. They say the case is being investigated as a double homicide.

They say they don’t believe there’s any immediate danger to the community.

-7 p.m. Indiana State Police release a photo of a man reportedly walking on the trail around the time of the girls’ disappearance. Police say they want to talk to the individual but stop short of calling him a suspect.

Thursday, Feb. 16, 2017

-6 p.m. Police set up a tip line for anyone with information in the case to call: 844-459-5786. They say they’ve had upwards of 250 tips so far.

-6:45 p.m. Funeral arrangements set for 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German.

-7:45 p.m. Indiana State Police serve a search warrant in connection with the case at a home in Delphi. No arrests were made.

Saturday, Feb. 18, 2017

-4 p.m. A public visitation for the girls is held at Delphi Community High School.

Sunday, Feb. 19, 2017

-12:30 p.m. Indiana State Police say the man photographed walking along trail around the time the girls’ disappearance is a suspect in their deaths.

http://fox59.com/2017/02/16/timelin...iberty-german-and-abigail-williams-in-delphi/

Bumping this from media thread.
For clarification 2 p.m. on 14th is first time foul play is mentioned and Wednesday 15th after autopsy 3 p.m. double homicide is mentioned.

 

[WebSight]

Originally Posted by whiskers
People cutting through his property. 50 years on 40 + acres you are used to people possibly accessing the trails from a distance. Same with the bridge. Visiting cemetery and then walking around. Fishing, etc.

He's a seasoned landowner used to people cavorting around on acreage. He wouldn't think twice if someone was out walking and then hopped in a car that pulled up next to them.

I have several acres and I'd never know if anyone cut through my property. Especially the back side of my property. Folks have to get about 200' from my house before my dogs even start barking.

I see what you are saying though.

FYI: RL's paddocks border the cemetery, so on any given day he would surely see people from there, either coming up from the woods or parking and heading down into the woods, not to mention people parking there for funerals or paying respects.

The wooded property next to RL's and behind the cemetary (going all the way down to the creek) is owned by the Mears' family who have been instrumental in the implementation of the trails which their lands border on both sides. So I imagine people parking at the cemetery and hiking to and from there would be very common.

It is possible though that it is such a common occurance that RL stopped taking notice ages ago.

 

[Wild Rose]

As an urban explorer, I can say that closing it would not have kept people off it. It's a beautiful bridge, though. I would love to walk across it. I hope they're able to restore it a little and reopen it. Going to places like that and taking photos is kind of my jam, which I why I think I feel a kindred spirit with Abby and Libby. At their ages I would've been doing the exact same thing.

I'm in my fifties, but I look with absolute awe upon the engineering feats that we have around us. Sometimes I see the young people, teens mostly, hanging out in a place I look at and cringe, so high..., but that is the spirit of discovery I admire. Just reading about how they built the Lincoln Tunnel is like Wow! That bridge is amazing, a testament to a past generation!

 

[WebSight]

I did not know that taking photos was the reason for their trip to High Bridge. Are you able to provide a link? TIA

Mike Patty himself stated that that was why the girls were at the trails that day.

You can find that info on the media thread if you are interested.

 

[Wild Rose]

Now I am pondering some ideas based on the last few pages of posts. Kids are so quick with their phones today, just amazing. I do wonder one thing, many young people post videos of events they know are wrong. Perhaps Libby realized very early on in the encounter that the way they were being initially spoken to was wrong and she would have proof later to show. Many young people with phones today are capturing awful behavior that an adult would have gotten away with before just because they were the adult.

 

[WebSight]

BBM:
"Patty said it doesn’t surprise him that Liberty left police with that evidence because photography was one of her passions. It was the reason the girls were on the Monon High Bridge that Monday afternoon."

“She’s kind of a photo buff anyway, that’s why the girls were out there taking pictures,” said Patty. “That’s why they were out there in the first place – to catch the scenery.”
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/crime/delphi-indiana-who-were-liberty-german-and-abigail-williams

We HAVE been told why the girls went to the bridge that day. It's among the known facts of the case and is not an assumption.

BBM Thank you Steleheart, quite right.

The members here who dig through the media thread or google info for people who have the same exact access to it and could look that up themselves but don't or won't are very gracious indeed.

ETA: the above is not pertaining to the rule of providing links when presenting new or contrary information as we are expected to do but for when a conversation or theory regarding well established information is brought up again. imo, of course.

 

[Wild Rose]

Also mulling over something...since the pic was an approach from a bit afar, and IF this was her first encounter with him, Libby shows an amazing ability to sense his intention. IF this is the case, LE may have been astounded with Libby's abilities here, remembering that for many LE it can take YEARS of working with people, to build up a treasureload of instincts...Libby may have done something that even seasoned LE might not have, and remembering that she is so young, may be much admired. And we cannot forget Abby because they might have both sized this up together as a team. One may have encouraged the other, as such a good friend. We are all lucky when we have real friends.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Also mulling over something...since the pic was an approach from a bit afar, and IF this was her first encounter with him, Libby shows an amazing ability to sense his intention. IF this is the case, LE may have been astounded with Libby's abilities here, remembering that for many LE it can take YEARS of working with people, to build up a treasureload of instincts...Libby may have done something that even seasoned LE might not have, and remembering that she is so young, may be much admired. And we cannot forget Abby because they might have both sized this up together as a team. One may have encouraged the other, as such a good friend. We are all lucky when we have real friends.

They may have seen him earlier and been wary for some reason as has been suggested so filmed him surreptitiously this time. JMO.

 

[Alethea]

FYI: RL's paddocks border the cemetery, so on any given day he would surely see people from there, either coming up from the woods or parking and heading down into the woods, not to mention people parking there for funerals or paying respects.

The wooded property next to RL's and behind the cemetary (going all the way down to the creek) is owned by the Mears' family who have been instrumental in the implementation of the trails which their lands border on both sides. So I imagine people parking at the cemetery and hiking to and from there would be very common.

It is possible though that it is such a common occurance that RL stopped taking notice ages ago.

That's a really good point. New Hampshire we have a "current use" program where if you agree to maintain your land in its natural state (forest or meadow), you get a huge property tax credit. If you allow your land to be open for recreation (hiking, trails, hunting, fishing), you get an even bigger tax credit. So there's a lot of land that's privately owned but people aren't militant about others walking through. I'd imagine people who have large plots abutting a nature preserve or park have a similar outlook- they're used to some use of their land far from the house.

 

[Shiressleuth]

And if a person is found decapitated in the middle of nowhere would you not agree that constitutes a homicide? The ME would give the details of when/how it in their opinion it occurred. But is it not obvious that LE are dealing with a homicide?

If a person is found with 50 stab wounds and blood on the walls and surfaces and an obvious struggle took place in the locaton would that not qualify as a homocide in your mind?

BOP,

Please see my recent post bumping the media time line.

Ss.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

BOP,

Please see my recent post bumping the media time line.

Ss.

I saw your post SS, thanks. My original comment had nothing to do with the timeline. I was merely giving a couple of examples where a death would be immediately thought of as a homocide--not a suicide or accidental death.
I do see the point you were trying to make.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I saw your post SS, thanks. My original comment had nothing to do with the timeline. I was merely giving a couple of examples where a death would be immediately thought of as a homocide--not a suicide or accidental death.
I do see the point you were trying to make.

Sorry I thought your post was asking me two questions. Perhaps they were rhetorical. It took me some time finding that in the media thread.

 

[Maplesyrup]

FYI: RL's paddocks border the cemetery, so on any given day he would surely see people from there, either coming up from the woods or parking and heading down into the woods, not to mention people parking there for funerals or paying respects.

The wooded property next to RL's and behind the cemetary (going all the way down to the creek) is owned by the Mears' family who have been instrumental in the implementation of the trails which their lands border on both sides. So I imagine people parking at the cemetery and hiking to and from there would be very common.

It is possible though that it is such a common occurance that RL stopped taking notice ages ago.

Well, maybe the Mear's barn was used as only a parking spot if BG arrived in a car. If the barn looked unused or rarely used based on the driveway entry to it, BG may have stowed a vehicle there and set off on foot into the woods to hunt. This way it could look like no one was parked near the high bridge and he could sneak around watching for a victim or victims. Once finished he could walk out, go get his vehicle and leave. Only a thought IMO.

 

[WebSight]

I am reposting this picture I took with my daughter's iphone to give an idea of how far away BG theoretically was when Libby began to film him . The distance is 70 feet which is the median distance of 60-80 feet per Gray Hughes calculations based on where BG was on the bridge versus where Libby was standing. Libby is estimated to be either on the last platform or just off the bridge. Maybe some who have not seen it might find it useful for analyzing the reasons for filming.

At this distance we were able to hear each other clearly and could see facial expressions. Please note: this was taken at full zoom on the phone which exactly represented what I could see with the naked eye. I believe the video was filmed at this or a close zoom level. The stills from LE, imo, were zoomed further to get the pictures we have.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Well, maybe the Mear's barn was used as only a parking spot if BG arrived in a car. If the barn looked unused or rarely used based on the driveway entry to it, BG may have stowed a vehicle there and set off on foot into the woods to hunt. This way it could look like no one was parked near the high bridge and he could sneak around watching for a victim or victims. Once finished he could walk out, go get his vehicle and leave. Only a thought IMO.

Good thought but he would be noticeable whereas parking at rear of cemetery would not be noticeable and vehicles would often park there IMO. Eg. Visitors to cemetery and fishermen.
Presumably there is also access to the CS via Mears land to the west of the cemetery.
MOO

 

[Bird of Paradise]

MONON BRIDGE: Should never have been open to public. Looks way too dangerous imo. Off topic a little...

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The bridge technically wasn't for public use nor part of the trail system. I'm guessing you meant there should have been some type of barrier before now, but I am including links to interesting info that I'm sure has been posted before but tells about the bridge.

Trail:

East endpoint (#1) – Specific: Monon Bridge at Delphi over Deer Creek

http://www.indianatrails.com/?q=content/monon-high-bridge-trail-delphi


Bridge:

“We began working with our local partners to acquire the Monon High Bridge back in 2012,”

“While the High Bridge has been a popular destination for generations, ...it has never been considered a safe structure for pedestrians.

“After Indiana Landmarks rebuilds the pier, the township’s work will not only make the High Bridge safe for pedestrians, it will create a breathtaking public overlook in an inspiring natural setting,”

https://www.indianalandmarks.org/2017/04/indiana-landmarks-announces-rescue-of-monon-high-bridge/

 

[MistyWaters]

Bumping this from media thread.
For clarification 2 p.m. on 14th is first time foul play is mentioned and Wednesday 15th after autopsy 3 p.m. double homicide is mentioned.

On the media thread there's also a link to a 1/2 hour video taken from a media helicopter the afternoon of Feb 14th. Although nothing of the actual crime scene is recorded, it does capture the massive presence of vehicles inside the blockade belonging to LE and other professionals.

The incredible amount of ground activity happening already that afternoon in my opinion is indicative that outside resources were immediately called in because there was no doubt they were dealing with a double homicide crime scene upon discovery of the bodies.




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[Deleted member 172065]

Anyone recognize this?

Skibaboo has the most awesome map that has clickable links which show locations as well as links to the media article where the information came from.

If you haven't viewed it, here's the link. This and the media timeline is available on page one of EVERY thread. It will answer so many of the questions often brought up here that were answered way back at the beginning.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...M&ll=40.40062626780704,-86.40000880000002&z=9

Great map. They DID cross the creek according to the map. I had wondered what all that 'crossing the creek' was about. Clothes by the creek was also noted...


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[Shiressleuth]

On the media thread there's also a link to a 1/2 hour video taken from a media helicopter the afternoon of Feb 14th. Although nothing of the actual crime scene is recorded, it does capture the massive presence of vehicles inside the blockade belonging to LE and other professionals.

The incredible amount of ground activity happening already that afternoon in my opinion is indicative that outside resources were immediately called in because there was no doubt they were dealing with a double homicide crime scene upon discovery of the bodies.




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Indeed possibly that was their opinion. My point is it was not OFFICIALLY stated as being the girls or as being a homicide until (see time line from media thread and posted above) . It was not even officially stated as foul play until (see timeline etc also).

Ps. I have seen the video too TY.

 

[Tampa5678]

Has there been any new developments in this case? It's gone silent nationally.


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