IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

[WebSight]

Misty Waters, Evania and Hazelnutty and anyone else who popped over to see the photo of BG at @70 feet. I loaded the wrong photo to the post. :shame:

I have corrected it so you can see the corrected photo here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...erty-German-14-Delphi&p=13406887#post13406887

My original post up thread has been corrected with the right link also.

I think I need to step away from the threads for a little while. Its all going pear-shaped. :facepalm:

 

[cluciano63]

The image of BG is so poor, it is practically useless as far as any "most wanted" lists. I can only imagine how many "tips" would result. Jmo

 

[Brighty]

I believe the girls were initially alarmed. Thus turning her cellphone recorder on and trying to get him on the camera. This man had set off her spider sense but he had not yet engaged them. She either didn't feel calling 911 was necessary at that point, or she didn't think of it, who knows. It all happened very quickly. Once he did engage them and they realized they were in serious trouble, the opportunity to call 911 had passed.

My belief is that the girls had probably seen BG prior to him approaching them on the bridge. I would guess they had seen him when they were walking in at some point and he was behaving abnormally. Watching them, semi folllwing them, just acting in a manner that wasn't quite right. They likely just brushed it off as a weird guy and went on their way. Then, they're up on the bridge on the other end in a much more remote area, and they see him again. This time he's coming directly at them. At which point the girls sensed they were in danger, prompting Libby to turn the recorder on him.

When he reached them he probably pulled a gun on them almost immediately. From that point on they were totally under his control. Sadly had they run I highly doubt he would have shot either of them.

If Libby recorded him out of fear, then why did they both not flee instead? That is what bothers me. I really think there was one murderer; just can't figure out why the girls didn't call 911 or flee instead of Libby recording BG. Maybe they saw him as weird but didn't see the absolute danger they were in until it was too late. If there was a second bad guy it would all make more sense but the kind of person I think did this usually does it alone.

I know we all do things that don't follow lucid thinking when in a moment of danger/fear/emergency but not sure how much to attribute to that or look for answers to why they did what they did.

I think your idea that they had already seen him and he was acting odd toward them and caused them to become frightened when they saw him approaching makes sense. The moment they were sure he was after them was likely when he did pull a gun, and if he actually grabbed Abby and held the gun toward her that would have been enough to control both for sure. Maybe just pointing the gun at both was enough.

I don't think it would have mattered if they had called 911, I think it would have all been over by the time LE was able to respond and find them. That happens over and over because bad things can happen in seconds, minutes. I also truly believe he would have shot them if they fled or one fled, after all he is a murderer.

 

[Shiressleuth]

If one was familar with Delphi, I'm certain they'd know exactly what the Trail Head referred to. Considering the girls were dropped off at about 1pm but the crime occurred later than 2pm, I'm guessing LE doesn't consider it significant for the general public to be informed of any events that occurred earlier that day.

I can understand why it'd be nice if they'd provided a full narrative, somewhat like a murder mystery but that's totally unrealistic. LE is tasked in solving this crime, and they only release what they believe to be helpful in seeking tips or leads. That's just the way it is. MOO

No one is asking for a full narrative but it just seems to me none of us on this forum knows where the Trail Head is. And I've read every thread but that's MOO.

 

[TeaTime]

I think they didn't run because they knew him, knew he saw them and that they had been 'caught' doing something they (or one of them) were/was not supposed to be doing and he was the kind of person to rat them out or exact favors for silence. I think the recording was made to show mom or grandma how this guy really was mean and nasty and they wanted it preserved as proof that their complaints were not 'made up' or 'overblown'.

I believe it was a "oh, no! there is XYZ and he is coming this way! I am going to record him and show ABC that what I/you have been saying about him is all true."

It is my opinion that BG is so close and known to the family that we will all be sickened by his close connection when the arrest is made.

 

[Brighty]

The trouble is we don't know what the <modsnip> did next nor do we know why (We only think we know)

However I find the idea below on the same wavelength as my own thoughts.

But if one of the girls recognized the perp, they may not have been as initially alarmed. But still, for a SA theory I can't imagine a scenario where Libby wouldn't have used her cellphone to call for help.​

Not sure what an SA theory is! but I certainly don't think it is impossible for one or both of the Girls to recognise the person on the bridge.

As to why Libby filmed well I don't come from Delphi or USA but looking at news reels previous to the girls disappearance there appeared to be a problem with a couple of Flashers on the Monon trail shortly before the girls disappeared. Please tell me there is only one Monon Trail in Delphi.

Apparently there were two of them acting independently. I am in no way blaming these people but in one of the many reports I read LE did say only if it was safe to do so take photos.I did notice the arrests 16th Feb 2017
http://fox59.com/2017/02/24/police-...eparate-flashing-incidents-along-monon-trail/

Hence why the girls were on alert to take video of anything unusual. That was my point.

KR
Reacher

Somehow I missed that. I am so glad you posted that again! Now it makes sense to me, they may have thought he was a creep but they thought he was a flasher creep. I understand why Libby wanted video of him, she may have thought she could catch him flashing on video and help LE arrest him.

I am sure it never crossed their minds he was a murderer or anything like that until it was too late.

 

[Jax49]

As to why Libby filmed well I don't come from Delphi or USA but looking at news reels previous to the girls disappearance there appeared to be a problem with a couple of Flashers on the Monon trail shortly before the girls disappeared. Please tell me there is only one Monon Trail in Delphi.

Apparently there were two of them acting independently. I am in no way blaming these people but in one of the many reports I read LE did say only if it was safe to do so take photos.I did notice the arrests 16th Feb 2017
http://fox59.com/2017/02/24/police-...eparate-flashing-incidents-along-monon-trail/

Hence why the girls were on alert to take video of anything unusual. That was my point.

KR
Reacher

Snipped for space.

That is another Monon Trail, located in Indianapolis. More than an hour away. HTH's.

 

[Brighty]

Snipped for space.

That is another Monon Trail, located in Indianapolis. More than an hour away. HTH's.

Thank you for posting that information even though it sets back my thinking about what may have happened.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

Snipped for space.

That is another Monon Trail, located in Indianapolis. More than an hour away. HTH's.

Thanks for letting me know :blushing: I think I will just stick ti UK in the future its easier

 

[Jax49]

Thanks for letting me know :blushing: I think I will just stick ti UK in the future its easier

Don't blush. I only knew because it was brought up before and someone else explained.

 

[IceIce9]

Snipped for space.

That is another Monon Trail, located in Indianapolis. More than an hour away. HTH's.

The section of the Monon Trail that runs through Indianapolis is over 18 miles long. It begins in downtown Indy and runs north through Carmel and Westfield.

 

[Evania]

I think they didn't run because they knew him, knew he saw them and that they had been 'caught' doing something they (or one of them) were/was not supposed to be doing and he was the kind of person to rat them out or exact favors for silence. I think the recording was made to show mom or grandma how this guy really was mean and nasty and they wanted it preserved as proof that their complaints were not 'made up' or 'overblown'.

I believe it was a "oh, no! there is XYZ and he is coming this way! I am going to record him and show ABC that what I/you have been saying about him is all true."

It is my opinion that BG is so close and known to the family that we will all be sickened by his close connection when the arrest is made.

Could be...

But if recording him on purpose, I would figure that they would purposefully say his name in the recording. If not in the beginning, then at least once they figured out that he was about to murder them. "NO, so and so! Don't do this!"

We do know that the recording is longer than what LE released. If that's the case, I think his name would be somewhere on the audio, and there would have been an arrest by now. This is solely my personal opinion.


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[MistyWaters]

I think they didn't run because they knew him, knew he saw them and that they had been 'caught' doing something they (or one of them) were/was not supposed to be doing and he was the kind of person to rat them out or exact favors for silence. I think the recording was made to show mom or grandma how this guy really was mean and nasty and they wanted it preserved as proof that their complaints were not 'made up' or 'overblown'.

I believe it was a "oh, no! there is XYZ and he is coming this way! I am going to record him and show ABC that what I/you have been saying about him is all true."

It is my opinion that BG is so close and known to the family that we will all be sickened by his close connection when the arrest is made.

I appreciate theories like this that have a different slant. I also think there was some connection to BG with at least one of the girls, that it wasn't a total random encounter.

 

[MistyWaters]

Could be...

But if recording him on purpose, I would figure that they would purposefully say his name in the recording. If not in the beginning, then at least once they figured out that he was about to murder them. "NO, so and so! Don't do this!"

We do know that the recording is longer than what LE released. If that's the case, I think his name would be somewhere on the audio, and there would have been an arrest by now. This is solely my personal opinion.


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If the attack was preplanned, he may of known who they were, but they didn't know who he was. "You're xxxxxx? Hey I know your xxxxx". That could explain why they weren't initially alarmed. Perhaps more curious, without reason to be immediately afraid, regardless of the perps underlying motive.

 

[TeaTime]

Could be...

But if recording him on purpose, I would figure that they would purposefully say his name in the recording. If not in the beginning, then at least once they figured out that he was about to murder them. "NO, so and so! Don't do this!"

We do know that the recording is longer than what LE released. If that's the case, I think his name would be somewhere on the audio, and there would have been an arrest by now. This is solely my personal opinion.


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Fear can take all reason out of the equation. They didn't know he would kill them. They expected a verbal assault and maybe some blackmailing. Once they realized his intentions, fear took their voices. IMHO.

 

[tuffgongc9]

Fear can take all reason out of the equation. They didn't know he would kill them. They expected a verbal assault and maybe some blackmailing. Once they realized his intentions, fear took their voices. IMHO.

If they knew the guy at all and he was remotely local, then there are 24 LE agencies who have spectacularly failed at their job. They have his picture and his voice and it is not a big place. IMO if he is local then it represents an astounding level of incompetence on the part of LE. Very very unlikely IMO.

 

[Lilowlet]

If Abby was in the video near BG, one thought, if the dark area is indeed Abby's arm, LE would really have no reason to ensure it was properly cropped out. Because even if BG wasn't aware he was being videoed by Libby at the time, when the photo was later released by LE he would surely know that Abby was near when the video was captured. So maybe just for the benefit of BG, LE is making a sort of intentional understatement by just providing a tiny glimpse of her presence?

Made me wonder if the scenario was like say, there was a previous encounter, maybe first cs if there is 2, I think there is imo, and LG ran to hide, BG would have been busy w AW. Maybe LG did, crouch hide and take vid, instead of leaving her friend behind. Maybe she stayed to capture him on vid. If BG isn't really on the bridge, just bare with the thought. If say they were in the woods already. How difficult really is it to just think maybe LG being her size and an athlete, her gramps says shes a fighter brave etc along those lines, what if after she tried to help as well? Like take him on, save her friend. I don't think anything is impossible. Yes experts may disagree with the he's not on the bridge, but I'm entitled to my opinion that if the fbi doesn't want us to know, We won't know. also it would make sense to place BG on the bridge/ Any part of the trail for that matter as at first, LE said he was just on the trails that day and they wanted to speak to him. That didn't work no BG showed up, maybe because he himself knew he never went on the bridge or he only did after scoping the area for other people and knew he was recorded by LG, who knows, now he's suspected of being involved. I'm just i guess trying to say, as I assume others have probably more than once, is that he may have not been on the bridge whenever was taken, maybe he caught AW first. There seem to be a few hills just throwing that out there sorry but we weren't there we don't know which hill or side, we can assume from stills that may not even be background valid, that's ok too but I'm totally open to what your saying Misty and I agree. Thanks for toggling my mind gurl!

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[Shiressleuth]

I don't know how wet the ground was (muddy?) on the hill on RL's property on Feb 13 and 14? Also, I am thinking if a searcher started walking that he probably followed the creek edge toward RL's property (started at high bridge and walked along the creek in the direction of RL's property). To me, the creek edge would be the most likely location of easily noticed footprints. A professional tracker could spot so much more on a hill or through trees or grass or leaf cover. IMO, for a "regular" searcher on foot...I say the prints were in the mud/sand of the creek. I would guess the searcher saw foot prints and assuming they looked fresh, the searcher followed them into the woods to where the bodies were found. Now...since LE said a set of foot prints were found, that sounds to me like one person's footprints...or could LE have been vague and actually the set of prints was a *group* of prints belonging to 3 people? All IMO.

They said a set of footprints. That is why it is hard to envisage it on the Creek edge because one would expect at least two if not three sets leading to the girls. Unless only 1 girl made it across and was shot and other 1 was abducted from the other side and brought back via cemetery later. That's the only thing in my mind that explains one set of footprints. MOO.

 

[Evania]

If the attack was preplanned, he may of known who they were, but they didn't know who he was. "You're xxxxxx? Hey I know your xxxxx". That could explain why they weren't initially alarmed. Perhaps more curious, without reason to be immediately afraid, regardless of the perps underlying motive.

Yes...That's currently the theory that I'm leaning toward. That they were "known" by him, but that they had no idea who he was. I don't believe he catfished them. (Not based on anything other than my personal hunch), but at the same token, I do feel that there is something connected to social media...My personal feeling is FB with an unintentional familial tie somewhere. I think he anonymously stalked them and then
slinked back to his miserable life. I'm sure the lowlife enjoys all the attention he's getting. Ugh.


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[Evania]

Fear can take all reason out of the equation. They didn't know he would kill them. They expected a verbal assault and maybe some blackmailing. Once they realized his intentions, fear took their voices. IMHO.

That is very true...People have been known to freeze. I think with so few facts known, at this point anything can be plausible. Part of me thinks that when the facts are finally all laid out, we're going to be surprised that it wasn't terribly elaborate. JMO


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