IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65

[margarita25]

I totally understand I want the case to maintain public and media interest somehow. It is so frustrating for the girl's families, law enforcement, the people of Delphi and us. It's been a long six months here following the case and threads 24/7. He will be caught but unfortunately it is going to take time.

(Gregjrichards I really hope you are feeling better. Are you still in the hospital? So glad to hear that you have been improving. Keep getting well buddy!)

 

[Rott Mom]

(Gregjrichards I really hope you are feeling better. Are you still in the hospital? So glad to hear that you have been improving. Keep getting well buddy!)

Same here. Hope you're improving - lots of love and prayers!

 

[SouthernMom]

A lot of times these guys have records, but the crimes start out as soliciting a prostitute, that sort of thing:

Here Gary Michael Hilton's past.

http://prairiechicken.blogspot.com/2008/02/gary-michael-hilton-timeline.html

The Amherst Trail killer and the Green River Killer both had soliciting a prostitute on their records. But beyond that, they were seen as average guys, pretty respected in the community.

I think men who can get away with this type of crime long term, don't frighten or alarm people they live with or near to. That's how they stay under the radar for so long.

I think you may be onto something here. I believe this perp may have a past criminal history, but probably holds down a good job and seems like "good guy" to his family and friends. Todd Kohlhepp and Israel Keyes both flew under the radar so to speak, but had some criminal past history.

I've been reading about other serial killers who committed double kidnapping/homicides and see that they also have single kidnapping/homicides on their records. (Ex. Joseph Duncan, Michael Klunder)

I'm researching kidnapping/homocides that occurred in public parks. If there is a similar crime, solved or unsolved, it may (or may not) be linked. I really don't think this is the perps first time doing this type of crime. Hopefully, it will be his last.

All my humble opinion only, respectfully of course.

 

[margarita25]

As simple as that theory is, it makes a lot of sense. I just keep wondering at what point he knew he was going to pursue them, and how he managed to appear somewhat innocuous up to that point. Did he hide? Or did he just walk the trail back and forth?

If he'd just stood at the end of the bridge waiting for a victim, he would surely have stood out.

Imo, I think he likely started following them on the trail from the moment he saw them. As for how long he had been there hunting/scoping before their arrival, and whether he was hiding, walking, etc, I don't know...I wonder if he had been there the day before...would a Sunday have been busy on the trail? Maybe there were "too many eyes" that day?

Eta: thinking more about this, as far as what he might have been doing before he spotted the girls, has it been ruled out (by you guys lol, since LE hasn't commented on this that I know of), that he could have just been sitting in his vehicle in the same parking lot where they were dropped off? Maybe parked in the back corner or something like that? Just because nobody specifically remembers his, doesn't mean he wasn't there, as there is so much people don't take notice of. Of course if this was the case, this would present the problem of trying to back track over the bridge back to the lot...or could he have made it back to parking lot via not going back over the bridge (along the river, through the woods, etc.)?

 

[Rott Mom]

This has nothing to do with these murders...but our neighborhood kids started school this week. All these kids were driven to school when they used to walk to school about two blocks away.
In our small town, we're so afraid of BG being on the loose.

 

[margarita25]

This has nothing to do with these murders...but our neighborhood kids started school this week. All these kids were driven to school when they used to walk to school about two blocks away.
In our small town, we're so afraid of BG being on the loose.

I met someone the other day from Indianapolis. He said "everyone is scared to death". I said "they should be". He told me crime is through the roof in that city. He mentioned the aspect of it being a hub with all the freeways there. How far are you from Delphi, Rott Mom?

 

[gliving]

I really can't see law enforcement releasing the video or audio if it causes the girls families and members of the public distress. It's a major problem for law enforcement keeping the case in the public eye if there is nothing new to report.

Thank you everyone for your dedication to Abbey and Liberty's case and to finding this monster.

Yes, I agree about causing the family undue grief. They've been through enough.

But think about this also. What if the largest employer in Carroll County, Indiana Packers Corp, doesn't want the publicity that perhaps an undocumented worker could be involved.

This was reported the day after our girls were murdered:

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...ented-workers-hired-indiana-packers/80467074/

"A federal lawsuit says hundreds of undocumented workers were hired at Indiana Packers Corp. in Delphi, Ind., with fake IDs over the past four years."

read the comments on the article

 

[Rott Mom]

I met someone the other day from Indianapolis. He said "everyone is scared to death". I said "they should be". He told me crime is through the roof in that city. He mentioned the aspect of it being a hub with all the freeways there. How far are you from Delphi, Rott Mom?

Less than 30 minutes away - I've put up posters in my little town - we have access to a major interstate. I even had hubby post BG pictures at his place of employment.

 

[gregjrichards]

Off topic.

(Gregjrichards I really hope you are feeling better. Are you still in the hospital? So glad to hear that you have been improving. Keep getting well buddy!)

Thank you margarita25 I really appreciate your good wishes. I got home with antibiotics at the weekend but they aren't working so I have to go back to the hospital to see the drs. I've had 7 bad infections that I have had to be hospitalised for weeks each time this year and I'm totally fed up. It looks like I will need my 13th major surgery soon to try and stop the infections. Tomorrow is the 11th anniversary of the botched spinal surgery that I had done aged 22 which caused me to be ill and disabled. I am trying to keep positive I know I'm lucky knowing the terrible tragedies here.

Same here. Hope you're improving - lots of love and prayers!

Thank you Rott Mom it is very kind of you I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much everyone for all the get well messages I've received you are such a kind group of people.

Sorry enough about me back to Abigail and Liberty and the case.

 

[gregjrichards]

Yes, I agree about causing the family undue grief. They've been through enough.

But think about this also. What if the largest employer in Carroll County, Indiana Packers Corp, doesn't want the publicity that perhaps an undocumented worker could be involved.

This was reported the day after our girls were murdered:

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...ented-workers-hired-indiana-packers/80467074/

"A federal lawsuit says hundreds of undocumented workers were hired at Indiana Packers Corp. in Delphi, Ind., with fake IDs over the past four years."

read the comments on the article

It would not surprise me one bit if a worker current or former there was involved somehow. They don't seem to mind hiring sex offenders though perhaps they have to take any staff they can.

Less than 30 minutes away - I've put up posters in my little town - we have access to a major interstate. I even had hubby post BG pictures at his place of employment.

Thank you to you and your husband for doing this the more people that see it the better.

 

[margarita25]

We know that Israel Keyes was the type of seasoned predator who traveled extensively in order to fulfill his killing pursuits and commit his atrocities; did he ever kill in the same area twice, specifically returning to an area afterwards to kill again?

If BG is so inclined to want to return to this area because it is comfortable or convenient (on his work route for example / awareness space, etc), I think he would (have to) refrain due to the "heat". Which lends itself to the theory that he could be choosing another hunting ground. While many predators have various MOs and sometimes multiple variances of victim preferences (children and adults, black and white for example), I suspect he may go with the "if it ain't broken don't fix it" approach, meaning if he is that skilled at eluding LE he will choose in the future to go along with a formula that has worked: an isolated wooded area. But who really knows. I think his element of self control and restraint may be key here, can he control himself from seizing a potential future opportunity to abduct and kill which could be riskier (say at a shopping mall for example, or kid on the street).

Thinking further about this...dang just lost it, I hate it when that happens.

I lost that thought, but this brings another though that if he is not in a cooling off period and needs an easy "fix" he might go with a prostitute who will give him no resistance as far as getting in the car with him.

 

[deedee21]

wow and tysm for re-posting these 5 videos. I can't believe how treacherous it is to walk along that bridge with all of the deteriorating tracks...and how there are no safety rails....what a terrible fall someone could have. In fact I am surprised this place was still open to the public. Anyways, these videos give a lot of information about the site. I agree with others that the cemetery may have been the most logical escape route for the perp. You also hear the train in video 4, when they are at the cemetery. I remember a case where a perp was traveling cross country, attacking different people, assaulting women, leaving them for dead...and then hoping on a train to his next kill spot (the case was covered on 48 hours awhile back). The perp in that case was caught.

Im surprised 48 hrs, 20/20, and Dateline has not picked up this story.

 

[gregjrichards]

This has nothing to do with these murders...but our neighborhood kids started school this week. All these kids were driven to school when they used to walk to school about two blocks away.
In our small town, we're so afraid of BG being on the loose.

I'm very sorry for the fear this monster has caused to the community. I totally understand everyone being cautious.

 

[Rott Mom]

I'm probably going to receive a T.O. for this post, but does anyone think that these murders of two precious girls were somehow drug related?

 

[margarita25]

I'm probably going to receive a T.O. for this post, but does anyone think that these murders of two precious girls were somehow drug related?

I dont, jmo. Not one bit. Moo. If anything, he might use drugs, but that's it, imo.

 

[deedee21]

Yes, I agree about causing the family undue grief. They've been through enough.

But think about this also. What if the largest employer in Carroll County, Indiana Packers Corp, doesn't want the publicity that perhaps an undocumented worker could be involved.

This was reported the day after our girls were murdered:

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...ented-workers-hired-indiana-packers/80467074/

"A federal lawsuit says hundreds of undocumented workers were hired at Indiana Packers Corp. in Delphi, Ind., with fake IDs over the past four years."

read the comments on the article

The companies know their workers have fake ID's. Fake ID's are probably required. The companies want to plead STUPID.

 

[margarita25]

One thing I wanted to mention re: the latest interview, as related to a possible connection to L and L's case: When he said, as related to them, that "they can't even determine cause of death" (in Lizzie and Lyric's case), that to me means they have not ruled out a connection definitively, and do acknowledge that there very well cooooould be a possible connection, but just have no physical means to definitively link them. So, imo, I don't think a connection to Iowa is conclusively off the table, moo.

Did you guys come up with any cases in L and L's thread which you think could be connected?

 

[SouthernMom]

We know that Israel Keyes was the type of seasoned predator who traveled extensively in order to fulfill his killing pursuits and commit his atrocities; did he ever kill in the same area twice, specifically returning to an area afterwards to kill again?

No. He was very careful and even scoped out areas beforehand, leaving buried "killkits" so that he was prepared.

If BG is so inclined to want to return to this area because it is comfortable or convenient (on his work route for example / awareness space, etc), I think he would (have to) refrain due to the "heat". Which lends itself to the theory that he could be choosing another hunting ground. While many predators have various MOs and sometimes multiple variances of victim preferences (children and adults, black and white for example), I suspect he may go with the "if it ain't broken don't fix it" approach, meaning if he is that skilled at eluding LE he will choose in the future to go along with a formula that has worked: an isolated wooded area. But who really knows. I think his element of self control and restraint may be key here, can he control himself from seizing a potential future opportunity to abduct and kill which could be riskier (say at a shopping mall for example, or kid on the street).

Thinking further about this...dang just lost it, I hate it when that happens.

I lost that thought, but this brings another though that if he is not in a cooling period and needs an easy "fix" he might go with a prostitute who will give him no resistance as far as getting in the car with him.

I do wonder if he had originally planned to take the girls to a second location, but something happened to change that plan (ex. he was startled by voices, etc.) and this is why the phone was left behind.

My opinion only, is that he will not strike again in this area, but will choose another park location and will again choose victim(s) that can be easily controlled by fear.

 

[MistyM]

i wonder if he took any 'trophies'. that could indicate a SK.

 

[margarita25]

Off topic.



Thank you margarita25 I really appreciate your good wishes. I got home with antibiotics at the weekend but they aren't working so I have to go back to the hospital to see the drs. I've had 7 bad infections that I have had to be hospitalised for weeks each time this year and I'm totally fed up. It looks like I will need my 13th major surgery soon to try and stop the infections. Tomorrow is the 11th anniversary of the botched spinal surgery that I had done aged 22 which caused me to be ill and disabled. I am trying to keep positive I know I'm lucky knowing the terrible tragedies here.



Thank you Rott Mom it is very kind of you I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much everyone for all the get well messages I've received you are such a kind group of people.

Sorry enough about me back to Abigail and Liberty and the case.

(Hang in there, friend.

:grouphug: )