IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #77

[mpnola]

I just want to say I think it's really cool that Beck actually drove the route while video taping for Gray. They are clearly willing to do anything to help solve this. And they clearly trust him and his theories and work. I am going to guess she is the "great source of information" that told him that Libby was recording down by her waist to not be noticed that she was recording. I can only imagine how truly terrifying it was for all of them, especially Abbys mom to see that monster closing in on their little girls. Makes my heart jump.

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[kkdj]

KN's I thought. ???

??? Why would he present a woman's ID?

 

[mpnola]

I agree. It would be stupid to commit a slight crime, that might draw attention, after committing a huge crime in the vicinity.

I bet if he hitched a ride, it was more of an asking if they could give him a ride up.the road than a literal thumbs out kinda hitchhiking

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[Jax49]

Because police had blocked all exit roads since 4pm? :thinking:

I thought LE wasn't notified until about 5? moo

 

[MistyWaters]

yes the high bridge its not as easy as as it might seem to see under there even with the tie gaps

Sorry, I'm still not getting how people can hang out under a wooden trestle that's only about 5 or 6 feet wide, with platforms on the side, and think they wouldn't be seen from above.

 

[mtnlites]

You imagine he'd actually be in control enough and not to be scared of getting caught with his pants down, or off as you would have, crossing the creek?

I feel like taking his pants off would be too much trouble. He'd have to remove his shoes, first, and if they're anything like my husband's boots (lace ups and waterproof) you don't just slip them off. Then probably his socks and pants. I think he'd have been too worried about the girls getting a bigger heard start and calling out once they reached the other side.

 

[FindHG]

I just want to say I think it's really cool that Beck actually drove the route while video taping for Gray. They are clearly willing to do anything to help solve this. And they clearly trust him and his theories and work. I am going to guess she is the "great source of information" that told him that Libby was recording down by her waist to not be noticed that she was recording. I can only imagine how truly terrifying it was for all of them, especially Abbys mom to see that monster closing in on their little girls. Makes my heart jump.

Excellently said! Agree with all my heart. Thank you, mpnola.

 

[mtnlites]

When this was mentioned a couple days ago a WS member from Indiana wrote that hitchhiking is illegal there. To commit murder and risk arrest for hitchhiking would be very bold.

There are other ways to "hitchhike", however, than to actually stand on the side of the road. This is only an idea, and not one I am actually that invested in, but it could've been with someone that he was friendly with. Not necessarily knew but someone he wasn't a stranger to. Or, he could've had a sob story: car broke down/got injured/got lost, etc.

Speaking of bold, however, I kinda think the whole crime is pretty bold. Killing two girls in broad daylight where there's a risk of other people stumbling upon the crime certainly takes a little extra something. I can't decide if he was just really lucky or very good at what he did.

 

[kkdj]

Might be real out there, but some thoughts.

An eyewitness said BG does not have blue eyes. (fact)
An eyewitness took a long time coming forward (fact) possibly out of fear.
LE asked for wife or brother to come forward with more info (fact)
BG was seen leaving the park around 4:00 (fact)
BG was picked up by someone who knew him (?)
KN says she had a Dr. appt.
what time does she say her Dr. appt. was? Iirc it was around 2:45.
Has it been verified?
What time did KN say she was done with her Dr. appt.?
KN says she took DN to his check in for RSO 2-14
Who fits for the witness, the ride, the description of eyes and hair colors? Who would be afraid? Who LE is asking to give further info? KN imo
And one of my big questions has always been where and when did KN pick up DN to go to his RSO check in on the 14th if they were separated? And why would she if they were separated?
Just throwing it out there. But it might be on to something.

 

[MistyWaters]

I bet if he hitched a ride, it was more of an asking if they could give him a ride up.the road than a literal thumbs out kinda hitchhiking

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Yeah I don't know but I just can't see anybody from out of town committing murder without wheels. Rather than having to beg rides and risk everyone refusing wouldn't it be easier to just steal a car? We're not talking about a person with a whole lot of scruples. But then why travel at all? Why not commit murder at the location he lived?

Just my opinion but he either was local or had access to transportation, even if it was a partner in crime who waited. An out of town person committing murder without transportation in a small place the size of Delphi, there'd have to be more to it that imo.

 

[MistyWaters]

Might be real out there, but some thoughts.

An eyewitness said BG does not have blue eyes. (fact)
An eyewitness took a long time coming forward (fact) possibly out of fear.
LE asked for wife or brother to come forward with more info (fact)
BG was seen leaving the park around 4:00 (fact)
BG was picked up by someone who knew him (?)
KN says she had a Dr. appt.
what time does she say her Dr. appt. was? Iirc it was around 2:45.
Has it been verified?
What time did KN say she was done with her Dr. appt.?
KN says she took DN to his check in for RSO 2-14
Who fits for the witness, the ride, the description of eyes and hair colors? Who would be afraid? Who LE is asking to give further info? KN imo
And one of my big questions has always been where and when did KN pick up DN to go to his RSO check in on the 14th if they were separated? And why would she if they were separated?
Just throwing it out there. But it might be on to something.

I'm thinking if we knew the identity of all the other POIs each could have a imaginary scenario custom fit as well or better, no offence whatsoever to you and your creativity.

 

[kkdj]

I bet if he hitched a ride, it was more of an asking if they could give him a ride up.the road than a literal thumbs out kinda hitchhiking

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Do people do that? Where I live, which is city, no way would I give anyone a ride anywhere if I didn't know them! If they said they just wanted a ride up the road I would see that as getting their foot in the door!

 

[relentless.]

I have a theory. In GH's most recent video it states that there is a decently reliable source that the victims had possibly seen him earlier, and reiterated the term creepy. I am of the unpopular opinion that they had seen BG earlier and acknowledged that, in their opinion, he was creepy. Once again, reiterating that word twice.

Say BG is DN. DN is known to be unstable and explosive. Also he is known to live under bridges. I can't help but think maybe he was staying there, or at least squatting there, and when passed by the victims, heard them say something to the extent of him being creepy to themselves, and retaliated. They were correct if they did say he was creepy. But what if they said it out loud to each other just loud enough for him to hear, and he was set off?

In no way am I saying it is anyone but BG's fault, but we continually have this discussion whether it was premeditated and predatory, or a crime of opportunity. What if it is both? What if he felt they were judging him, and because he is mentally unstable he retaliated?

Either way, they sure were right to say he was creepy.

MOO

 

[kkdj]

I'm thinking if we knew the identity of all the other POIs each could have a imaginary scenario custom fit as well or better, no offence whatsoever to you and your creative thinking.

I get that! No offense taken.
But DN is all we have to go with right now as a poi.
Oh! And his escaping Indiana, his not blue eyes, his reddish brown hair, his living under bridges, his spread out eyes, his big nose, his being an RSO, his DV history, his height, his weight, etc.
I don't think I imagined any of that. Therefore, no offense taken.
I hope I haven't offended you.

 

[relentless.]

I get that! No offense taken.
But DN is all we have to go with right now as a poi.
Oh! And his escaping Indiana, his not blue eyes, his reddish brown hair, his living under bridges, his spread out eyes, his big nose, his being an RSO, his DV history, his height, his weight, etc.
I don't think I imagined any of that. No offense taken.

Despite the fact that in situations like this we will see whatever we want to see, I have to agree with you. There is an uncanny amount of coincidences that make it believable that BG is DN. My biggest point is his complete lack of ethics and morals. This is something that I believe DN could do with no remorse.

MOO

 

[mtnlites]

Yeah I don't know but I just can't see anybody from out of town committing murder without wheels. Rather than having to beg rides and risk everyone refusing wouldn't it be easier to just steal a car? We're not talking about a person with a whole lot of scruples. But then why travel at all? Why not commit murder at the location he lived?

Just my opinion but he either was local or had access to transportation, even if it was a partner in crime who waited. An out of town person committing murder without transportation in a small place the size of Delphi, there'd have to be more to it that imo.

I don't think this was someone from out of town anyway. I believe that he's either local or has a very strong tie to someone who is. (Perhaps staying with someone in the area or else used to visit Delphi a lot or previously worked there.)

 

[asyousay]

There is no way this is DN.

They have eye witness’s that saw the perp and yet DN has never been arrested for this crime.

Also I saw somebody say DN lived under bridges, how would he live under this one when it’s water underneath it?

 

[kkdj]

Despite the fact that in situations like this we will see whatever we want to see, I have to agree with you. There is an uncanny amount of coincidences that make it believable that BG is DN. My biggest point is his complete lack of ethics and morals. This is something that I believe DN could do with no remorse.

MOO

Thank you. I've been preparing a chart and the uncanniness is too much to ignore.

 

[mtnlites]

I'm thinking if we knew the identity of all the other POIs each could have a imaginary scenario custom fit as well or better, no offence whatsoever to you and your creativity.

I agree. I've stumbled across other people who have been brought up as possible "BGs" and each one had a similar list attached to them: RSO, physically resembled the sketch, transient, etc. I am assuming that the POIs that LE have in mind would also fit several categories.

I think my main issue with the RSO idea is that, yes, DN is an RSO but we have no idea if SA was a part of the crime so that may or may not be relevant.

I actually don't think the sketch looks like DN. At least, not to the extent that the likeness is unmistakable. I see similarities but not anymore so than I see between the sketch and others.

 

[Jerrod]

It may not have been the woman who gave him the ride, but another witness. LE implied that there were "witnesses" who contributed to this, when the sketch was first released. Or, as mentioned above, it could have been someone who wasn't a "stranger" to the man...

"Police say the sketch of the suspect is based off witness tips, including one woman"- (this could be a way of saying there was more than one or this could be a way of them covering their bases to make it SOUND like there were more than one when there wasn't) http://fox59.com/2017/07/17/police-...hi-teens-liberty-german-and-abigail-williams/

That's a heck of a mistake the reporter made in referring to the location only as the "Delphi Historic Trails" without being more specific. The Delphi Historic Trails are long and run through town with end points at Canal Park and Trailhead Park. Monon High Bridge is on the other side of Hwy 25, where the trail becomes known as the "Monon High Bridge Trail".

https://www.traillink.com/trail/delphi-historic-trails/