IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #77

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Shiressleuth said:
Based on the shadows the girls and BG are at the SE end of the bridge. The creek crossing is discussed in the August Holeman interview in the media thread.
As a wife or brother was mentioned by LE I believe we can look at the family members of a POI.

Mods please advise if incorrect.
Click to expand...

The wife and brother of DN was mentioned by LE???

ETA: Forum rules are post #1 of this thread.
"DO NOT SLEUTH DN's friends, family, former neighbors, employers, etc. Discuss what is available about DN via media and LE."
 
her said:
No there is not.
Show me the proof he was in Delphi.
Click to expand...

Hi, her,

That’s the problem.
There’s no proof he was in Delphi.
There’s no proof he was not.
He probably was not.
But what if he was...
We need more information, and apparently so does LE considering they still cannot rule him in or out yet.
 
Shiressleuth said:
I'm not sure, they may just get on top of you there and then, I think screaming or running. What do LE recommend? In an active shooter situation they recommend running and hiding.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input, SS. I'm quoting your reply to my post where I stated I would fake a convulsive seizure if someone had a gun on me trying to force me to go to a second location.

I should have been more clear in my response. With all the mass shootings, my personal safety is foremost in my mind now.

When I go to a restaurant, theater, a sporting event, etc., my first thought is, where is the nearest exit? I make every effort to find it and sit as close to it as possible. I also never sit with my back to the door.

Too, I search for the nearest large stationary object I could hide behind if needed. Never did this before, but now it's routine.

If someone starts shooting I'm going to do all in my power to run toward safety.

The times I would feel the need to fake a seizure would be if a gunman would manage to grab me alone, and hold a weapon directly on me, while trying to force me into his vehicle.

My options for running at that point would be very limited. I'm a petite female ( height and weight ) and could be easily overpowered by any male, especially if I'm caught unaware.

So if I'm physically within his grasp, and he has a gun on me while pushing me toward his vehicle, I'm pretty much headed for being assaulted and killed anyway.

( Even though I've taken self-defense classes, a weapon would nullify much of that training. )

So I am going into my 'convulsive seizure' right then and there. At least my 'seizure' would prevent him from having the 'pleasure' of watching the fear on my face.

Also, and I'm just speaking in generalities here, the majority of people are completely freaked out upon witnessing a grand mal seizure.

Before I went into Psychiatric nursing I worked in the Emergency Room of a general hospital for ten years. We treated many seizures and seldom had to 'clear the room' of visitors. The visitors had already cleared the room themselves! They were terrified.

Seizures ARE scary to watch. I may be wrong ( hope I never have to find out ) but I can't imagine a criminal getting a thrill out of trying to assault a person having a seizure.

Also seizures can last continuously. ( Status epilepticus, ) and may require medical intervention to stop. The criminal would have no way of knowing I was faking it because I really believe I could do a very good seizure on command.

My hope is the criminal would run away fast from this scenario.

Might not work, but worth a try in my opinion...





JMO
 
MistyWaters said:
The wife and brother of DN was mentioned by LE???

ETA: Forum rules are post #1 of this thread.
"DO NOT SLEUTH DN's friends, family, former neighbors, employers, etc. Discuss what is available about DN via media and LE."
Click to expand...
As you can see Misty I have asked mods to advise. No I didn't say "the wife and brother OF DN was mentioned by LE". I think you know what I said as it is in the post you quoted. So we'll just wait for mods to advise.
 
Shiressleuth said:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2976311/abby-williams-libby-german-snapchat-murder-tips-reward/

The "creepy stalker" Sun article.

It's a good article IMO from the Sun. I'll let you read and decide. There are some direct quotes in the article.
Click to expand...

From the same link --- so this is proof the bodies were discovered in the creek and there's a missing Snapchat photo of Libby?

".....Abby and Liberty’s bodies were found in a creek half a mile from the abandoned wooden bridge where they uploaded pictures of themselves walking to Snapchat.
 
JazzTune said:
Thanks for your input, SS. I'm quoting your reply to my post where I stated I would fake a convulsive seizure if someone had a gun on me trying to force me to go to a second location.

I should have been more clear in my response. With all the mass shootings, my personal safety is foremost in my mind now.

When I go to a restaurant, theater, a sporting event, etc., my first thought is, where is the nearest exit? I make every effort to find it and sit as close to it as possible. I also never sit with my back to the door.

Too, I search for the nearest large stationary object I could hide behind if needed. Never did this before, but now it's routine.

If someone starts shooting I'm going to do all in my power to run toward safety.

The times I would feel the need to fake a seizure would be if a gunman would manage to grab me alone, and hold a weapon directly on me, while trying to force me into his vehicle.

My options for running at that point would be very limited. I'm a petite female ( height and weight ) and could be easily overpowered by any male, especially if I'm caught unaware.

So if I'm physically within his grasp, and he has a gun on me while pushing me toward his vehicle, I'm pretty much headed for being assaulted and killed anyway.

( Even though I've taken self-defense classes, a weapon would nullify much of that training. )

So I am going into my convulsive seizure right then and there. At least my 'seizure' would prevent him from having the 'pleasure' of watching the fear on my face.

Also, and I'm just speaking in generalities here, the majority of people are completely freaked out upon witnessing a grand mal seizure.

Before I went into Psychiatric nursing I worked in the Emergency Room of a general hospital for ten years. We treated many seizures and seldom had to 'clear the room' of visitors. The visitors had already cleared the room themselves! They were terrified.

Seizures ARE scary to watch. I may be wrong ( hope I never have to find out ) but I can't imagine a criminal getting a thrill out of trying to assault a person having a seizure.

Also seizures can last continuously. ( Status epilepticus, ) and may require medical intervention to stop. The criminal would have no way of knowing I was faking it because I really believe I could do a very good seizure on command.

My hope is the criminal would run away fast from this scenario.

Might not work, but worth a try in my opinion...





JMO
Click to expand...

You've convinced me. :scared:
 
Shiressleuth said:
As you can see Misty I have asked mods to advise. No I didn't say "the wife and brother OF DN was mentioned by LE". I think you know what I said as it is in the post you quoted. So we'll just wait for mods to advise.
Click to expand...

Then consider alerting or PMing a mod. I recall it being said before they don't have time to read every post.
 
Shiressleuth said:
As you can see Misty I have asked mods to advise. No I didn't say "the wife and brother OF DN was mentioned by LE". I think you know what I said as it is in the post you quoted. So we'll just wait for mods to advise.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry I don't. You mentioned POI. Who is the POI you're referring to if not DN?

"As a wife or brother was mentioned by LE I believe we can look at the family members of a POI."
 
Shiressleuth said:
Welcome Kimbo. TY for your insight. I hope you are right. To your knowledge would a pregnant woman's notes show if her husband had been convicted of DV against her and in front of her other child, prior to her current pregnancy? Or would such detail not normally be recorded?
Click to expand...

Hi Shiressleuth! Honestly I’ve only seen discussion on DV in social work notes during inpatient hospital stays or if the mother is actively seeking help and trying to remove herself from the situation.

I’m thinking that LE would have excluded DN by now if there was documentation of him being at the OB appointment thus giving him an alibi.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
KimboSlice said:
Hi Shiressleuth! Honestly I’ve only seen discussion on DV in social work notes during inpatient hospital stays or if the mother is actively seeking help and trying to remove herself from the situation.

I’m thinking that LE would have excluded DN by now if there was documentation of him being at the OB appointment thus giving him an alibi.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I tend to agree with you. But they may not always make a note of it.
TY for your response.
 
MistyWaters said:
From the same link --- so this is proof the bodies were discovered in the creek and there's a missing Snapchat photo of Libby?

".....Abby and Liberty’s bodies were found in a creek half a mile from the abandoned wooden bridge where they uploaded pictures of themselves walking to Snapchat.
Click to expand...

Hi, Misty,
It’s also been reported as “near the creek”. I don’t recall seeing quoted verification in MSM or LE press conference as to the precise location.
 
RIP Meagan + Johnny said:
Hi, Misty,
It’s also been reported as “near the creek”. I don’t recall seeing quoted verification in MSM or LE press conference as to the precise location.
Click to expand...

We know the girls were located 50-60 feet from the creek, not in the water. I don't have a source handy, but it was discussed extensively early on.

The confusion (as shown by the Sun's inaccurate statement) started because Deer Creek isn't just a creek, it is also the name of the area. That is, when LE said "in Deer Creek" it did not mean the water.

moo
 
Jax49 said:
We know the girls were located 50-60 feet from the creek, not in the water. Please don't ask for a source, but it was discussed extensively early on.

The confusion (as shown by the Sun's inaccurate statement) started because Deer Creek isn't just a creek, it is also the name of the area. That is, when LE said "in Deer Creek" it did not mean the water.

moo
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jax!
You’re right. I remember something about that now.
It doesn’t help here when MSM publishes incorrect or inaccurate information or presents the reporters’ opinions as facts, whether it’s in print, video or audio. I’ll try to go find a link to exactly where they were found for the next Facts update. I want to revisit the early PCs too.

Edit: this is why we need direct quotes for the Facts list. Not trying to doubt anyone here, but we need to be absolutely certain about the source of the information so we can utilize it to make accurate assessments and comments.
 
MistyWaters said:
From the same link --- so this is proof the bodies were discovered in the creek and there's a missing Snapchat photo of Libby?

".....Abby and Liberty’s bodies were found in a creek half a mile from the abandoned wooden bridge where they uploaded pictures of themselves walking to Snapchat.
Click to expand...
Just a note - in the creek mistakenly came from " in Deer Creek" the township. The girls were later reported as being found 50-60 feet from the water's edge IIRC. However if you click on that "found in a creek" section, it takes you to another article where the hitchhiker statement from Riley is reported. Two quotes in one article "creepy stalker" and "hitchhiker".

Eta
@ RIP
cross posted with Jax re the first bit but please note the Riley hitchhiker quote for the facts compilation.
 
Jax49 said:
We know the girls were located 50-60 feet from the creek, not in the water. I don't have a source handy, but it was discussed extensively early on.

The confusion (as shown by the Sun's inaccurate statement) started because Deer Creek isn't just a creek, it is also the name of the area. That is, when LE said "in Deer Creek" it did not mean the water.

moo
Click to expand...

Thank you!
 
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