IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #77

[MistyWaters]

Jmo if LE thought that a particular person had info about a specific suspect...they would be bringing that person in for questioning, not making anonymous appeals hoping that one person would get the message. That person may or may not talk but vague appeals are not going to do it either.

At some point, LE will have to release more details that might spark a memory in someone who has not considered they might know who the suspect is. Clearly, they are getting nowhere...unable to even eliminate people.

Jmo obviously.

What's a hypothetical example of additional information that would spark a memory from last February?

 

[MistyWaters]

Just jumping off your post. Earlier someone asked when it was tapped, suggesting the info was out of date. I did notice that several times reference was made to the 10 month anniversary, so I think it is safe to assume it was tapped recently.

moo

I think it's safe to assume so as well. I thought it a very different type of Dr Phil show compared to the norm, although I admit I'm not a regular viewer.

 

[cluciano63]

What's a hypothetical example of additional information that would spark a memory from last February?

I am thinking they might have to release type of weapon used, if any, for example...especially if it is not a massively common type. Or more of what they gleaned from the tape that is deemed useful, or whatever they said, but have been keeping quiet so far. Or something about the crime scene, if unusual. Maybe the perp has a fettish with something that might strike someone who knows him. I don't know...but clearly they need help from the public and not just generic "look at this guy" stuff. Again jmo.

 

[Boxer]

Jmo if LE thought that a particular person had info about a specific suspect...they would be bringing that person in for questioning, not making anonymous appeals hoping that one person would get the message. That person may or may not talk but vague appeals are not going to do it either.

At some point, LE will have to release more details that might spark a memory in someone who has not considered they might know who the suspect is. Clearly, they are getting nowhere...unable to even eliminate people.

Jmo obviously.

I am thinking that BG and another person were seen at a distance by a witness. LE wouldn’t know who that person is any more than BG. But they would know they exist.

On the upside they have said they have enough evidence to convict when they find the person —-
They are unable to eliminate POIs due their suspicion there was another possible participant

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

The ringer can also be turned off and set to vibrate, common for someone who carries the iPhone in their pocket.

Yes, Misty, that’s true. But the incoming call will still cause the video to abruptly stop recording.

I actually hope this is what happened and that the girls’ final moments were not recorded. :sick: :tantrum:

 

[LaurelTedytamer]

My first post on the site. Thoughts:-

Logical assumption they where watched/followed and stalked over the bridge.

1. Why force them down the hill in the direction of the creek. Was he herding them towards a vehicle or felt safe enough to attack them near the creek? Could the area be easily seen from the bridge and other areas including the houses nearby? How often do Locals walk the trails there? Was there any areas in that direction a vehicle could be parked?

2. Why attack them .. if he was sexually motivated .. did the attack go wrong. Did he girls run together over the creek to get away, I would but would not leave my best friend behind - kind of makes sense. Did the girls run hence no DNA evidence?

3. The image of the guy following them his clothes looked like he was hiding a weapon of some kind. Why would the police not post what weapon caused the injuries? Was it something very unusual?

Heartbreaking .. I hope the relatives find the answers out soon.

 

[Rossymom]

July 17 press conference transcription excerpt from thread #62 post #236:

Q. In the release you mentioned some things exactly such as the hair color, can you talk about this at this time?

A. Basically, the hair color is a reddish brown. She was .... the person was not clear on the color of the eyes, but sh .... the person said it was definitely not blue. She was very obvious .... the person was very obviously not blue eyes, but they did mention that they were not clear on what color it was.

.

The eye color quote is really sticking out to me. I am following the case of Sydney Loofe and the male who is in custody and most likely will be charged in her death has the oddest color of eyes. They are not blue. I have a friend with this eye color (gray). My friends eyes really catch your eye. They are just odd. Anyway, the two who are being held as POI’s in Sydney’s death moved around a lot in their antique coin theft scheme.
People have commented that Aubrey Trail could not be BG due to his blue eyes. I believe they are NOT blue, but are that odd gray, which would cause a witness to say such as is quoted above. Just my opinion, of course.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

My first post on the site. Thoughts:-

Logical assumption they where watched/followed and stalked over the bridge.

1. Why force them down the hill in the direction of the creek. Was he herding them towards a vehicle or felt safe enough to attack them near the creek? Could the area be easily seen from the bridge and other areas including the houses nearby? How often do Locals walk the trails there? Was there any areas in that direction a vehicle could be parked?

2. Why attack them .. if he was sexually motivated .. did the attack go wrong. Did he girls run together over the creek to get away, I would but would not leave my best friend behind - kind of makes sense. Did the girls run hence no DNA evidence?

3. The image of the guy following them his clothes looked like he was hiding a weapon of some kind. Why would the police not post what weapon caused the injuries? Was it something very unusual?

Heartbreaking .. I hope the relatives find the answers out soon.

Welcome to WebSleuths, LaurelTedytamer!
:welcome:

 

[franci]

I agree. In that the shoe colour was used as a method to ID the girl's bodies it would seem a logical assumption to make that the shoe was on the foot of a body.

Am in the process of trying to catch up post Dr Phil so if Im repeating a point already made please forgive. IF the girls were covered in leaves which may possibly be the link between Nations and the Colorado case- and also be the reason why the bodies weren't discovered on that first night search, it would be very probable that a foot, or exposed feet could be the first evidence that a body lay beneath the foliage. Feet tend to protrude upwards and the shoes may have been the first thing seen as wind and the elements began to uncover the horrible truth of what lay beneath ..jmo

 

[mpnola]

Hey yall! ! A few things.... I saw 1 person mention it and I can't believe it hasn't been discussed more. Gray says he had it confirmed.that it was Abbys clothing in the edge of the picture of Bridge guy. That she was still on the bridge! This is the first I have heard that, although we speculated it to smithereens. That to me is so shocking. And terrifying! For Libbys to see him closing in on baby and all she can do is urge her on, wait for her and start recording.

Also, about the phone, a new detail to me was that Libbys dad called and they didn't answer. Called again. Didn't answer. But did not say it went straight to voicemail. So it prob wasn't off yet. They even said on Dr Phil that they thought they had lost the phone. So that makes me think it was still ringing. Later that night, Mike says the phone was now going to voice mail. So it either died or was turned off. I actually think it probably just died. I think the fact that it was probably on early is telling. I don't think killer touched the phone. For whatever reason. Either he was there and gone so fast he wasn't worried about them pinging the phone or she hid it. I think it never crossed his mind that he could have been recorded. At all. This was the first time i have seen a recording like this! I think he wasn't worried about the phone because he didn't care if they were found. He was already gone!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[asyousay]

If the bodies were covered over with leafs that doesn’t prove it was DN.

It’s common sense that with such a short time frame for the crime that he would use something to try and hide the bodies so he could get clear away.

 

[Shiressleuth]

If the bodies were covered over with leafs that doesn’t prove it was DN.

It’s common sense that with such a short time frame for the crime that he would use something to try and hide the bodies so he could get clear away.

No but it could be one of the similarities that have made him a POI. One other similarity could be murder on or near a trail. 3rd similarity could be manner of death.
:cow:
Some have referred to the 41 minutes referred to by Dr. Phil. We have discussed this before when we were briefly allowed to discuss the details from a GH video. That time is from 2.30 when BG was caught on video (by Libby) until DG's unanswered 3.11 p.m. call, the presumption being the call could not be answered because the girls had already been killed by then. So the crime happened within that 41 time frame or less even. If DG is also the witness who saw BG leaving when he got there at 3.14 then the time of the murder would be at least 10 mins prior to that time, so approx 3 p.m.
It would be interesting to know if DG remembers what cars were in the trailhead car park and where the witness saw BG.
:cow:
Eta. One more thought. If DG or another witness saw BG walking back to the trailhead, that really does discount any notion he had a car parked at or anywhere near the South end of the bridge doesn't it?

 

[Montego]

Hi, my first post to ws on this case, i haven't been on here except as a guest since 2008, i just registered. Nothing relavent to add except that you can watch the Dr. Phil episode infull " on demand" via the OWN network, it will play again at 5am , me and my insomnia know it well.

 

[Evey]

I am not sure about the significance of the shoe color and identification Libby’s sister provided to the investigators during the final stretch of the search. If the investigators did, in fact, ask for the color of a shoe, it’s because they either found a shoe away from the from the direct site where the bodies were found, or found a body and hoped the identification would provide a clue about who they had found. Things were moving fast, I am sure.

Rereading what I just wrote, it does sound kind of dumb, but it could be the bodies weren’t found at the same time.

It could also be the shoe was found in another location, too, away from the body. My opinion only. So many unknowns.

If he carried or chased them through water then maybe one floated away and had to be looked for down river or incase they find a random shoe or pair then maybe it’ll help them figure out it’s where it happened

 

[FindHG]

Hey yall! ! A few things.... I saw 1 person mention it and I can't believe it hasn't been discussed more. Gray says he had it confirmed.that it was Abbys clothing in the edge of the picture of Bridge guy. That she was still on the bridge! This is the first I have heard that, although we speculated it to smithereens. That to me is so shocking. And terrifying! For Libbys to see him closing in on baby and all she can do is urge her on, wait for her and start recording.

Also, about the phone, a new detail to me was that Libbys dad called and they didn't answer. Called again. Didn't answer. But did not say it went straight to voicemail. So it prob wasn't off yet. They even said on Dr Phil that they thought they had lost the phone. So that makes me think it was still ringing. Later that night, Mike says the phone was now going to voice mail. So it either died or was turned off. I actually think it probably just died. I think the fact that it was probably on early is telling. I don't think killer touched the phone. For whatever reason. Either he was there and gone so fast he wasn't worried about them pinging the phone or she hid it. I think it never crossed his mind that he could have been recorded. At all. This was the first time i have seen a recording like this! I think he wasn't worried about the phone because he didn't care if they were found. He was already gone!

Excellent post, mpnola. Thank you. Really has me wondering.

If Abby and Libby had the presence of mind to record him, they may have also thrown their phones where he couldn't get to them without losing control.

Or maybe he threw them away as soon as he could, not realizing he'd been recorded.

How far away would he have to live to feel comfortable not being recognized if he were seen by a witness in this area?

As he planned, he may have planned for that.

What places south of Delphi taking backroads to a highway make sense that he could have come from?

Does he often travel through here or more likely is it a side track, to where he travels to or through?

With Abby and Libby capturing his voice and image, a huge fail for him, does he live far enough away not to fall under suspicion, while looking exactly like the sketch?

If he changed his appearance, what would his choices be?
He may have stopped wearing that blue jacket windbreaker or whatever and only wears a motorcycle jacket now or completely different style of jacket?
Got a hair cut?
Trimmed his beard?
New shoes?

He knew this area well enough to plan this, yet may not be well known in the area?

Something like his job, or old family ties to the cemetery, or some awareness of it, may have drawn him here or given him a notion of control.

Was it all the different ways he could get in and out, unseen?

How could he count on whatever vehicle he was in not being seen as he came and he left?

 

[FindHG]

Hi, my first post to ws on this case, i haven't been on here except as a guest since 2008, i just registered. Nothing relavent to add except that you can watch the Dr. Phil episode infull " on demand" via the OWN network, it will play again at 5am , me and my insomnia know it well.

Montego

:welcome5:​

Thank you for joining and for letting us know of this. I hope you join in on the discussion.

Great to see so many new members on this thread.

 

[Evey]

I have an iPhone 6 and even in silent a call would cancel my video recording and I even think make it so it doesn’t record anything so I think they didn’t have service there to get it or if in a building with metal roofing I know I sometimes don’t get service or internet. So for some reason it didn’t come through or the video had turned off by then and I even think it won’t record the video if the phone dies during it. And if her case doesn’t prevent against water then maybe it got wet and she’d already stopped recording and was trying to call 911. And that could explain why he couldn’t delete it. Or she locked it so he couldn’t or has some security thing. Even with my phone if I hit the power button five times it calls 911.

Right now on Reddit we have someone who is trying to accuse the superintendent because of his voice it’s almost as bad as the person accusing the grandfather

 

[FrostedGlass]

Where is the gag order, case number, court.
All I recall was a sealed subpoena filed in Indiana for records.

Sorry I can't help you with that. Someone posted about a gag order shown in a video and I was just replying to it. I have no knowledge about the case number, court, etc.

I do know DN's attorney out in Colorado requested the court records to be sealed. I don't have the link to the report where he said that but I did supply the link to the report stating the court records were sealed.

And you are correct about the Subpoena Duces Tecum. It's number was 08C01-1710-MC-000198; but, of course, that was removed very quickly.

 

[gregjrichards]

My first post on the site. Thoughts:-

Logical assumption they where watched/followed and stalked over the bridge.

1. Why force them down the hill in the direction of the creek. Was he herding them towards a vehicle or felt safe enough to attack them near the creek? Could the area be easily seen from the bridge and other areas including the houses nearby? How often do Locals walk the trails there? Was there any areas in that direction a vehicle could be parked?

2. Why attack them .. if he was sexually motivated .. did the attack go wrong. Did he girls run together over the creek to get away, I would but would not leave my best friend behind - kind of makes sense. Did the girls run hence no DNA evidence?

3. The image of the guy following them his clothes looked like he was hiding a weapon of some kind. Why would the police not post what weapon caused the injuries? Was it something very unusual?

Heartbreaking .. I hope the relatives find the answers out soon.

Welcome to Websleuths thank you for joining us and posting in this thread.

Hi, my first post to ws on this case, i haven't been on here except as a guest since 2008, i just registered. Nothing relavent to add except that you can watch the Dr. Phil episode infull " on demand" via the OWN network, it will play again at 5am , me and my insomnia know it well.

Welcome to Websleuths. Thank you for joining us it is great to get new members.

 

[kizzykat]

Just jumping off your post. Earlier someone asked when it was tapped, suggesting the info was out of date. I did notice that several times reference was made to the 10 month anniversary, so I think it is safe to assume it was tapped recently.

moo

RE: When Dr. Phil show was taped. I was looking for something else & found a little MSM blip that contains video and also speech to text translation. Unfortunately what is spoken in the video and what is typed in the transcript is not the same. The linked article is dated 12/13/17, the speech to text (closed captioning) "transcript" says the show was taped "last week in California", so the week of 12/4. However, those words are not spoken in the video. He verbally says "and Kiyerra you've been researching all the details since we found out this episode was going to air, just last week."
Thought I'd share, but it does create confusion whether it was actually taped the week of 12/4 or they learned the week of 12/4 that it was going to be aired.
http://www.wlfi.com/content/video/463885443.html