IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #8

[luckyme]

I thought he would be identified quickly by the photo. I also wondered if the thing around his waist is a small carpenters pouch or a money pouch for someone like a carnival worker. Are there any building projects or carnivals close by?

meat packing plant.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I thought he would be identified quickly by the photo. I also wondered if the thing around his waist is a small carpenters pouch or a money pouch for someone like a carnival worker. Are there any building projects or carnivals close by?

Shirt tail?

 

[Wondergirl]

Is the name of the Trucker App - Trucker Path? Sorry I didn't write it down.

 

[JeannaT]

Just another random thought. I know a lot of people are upset that we aren't getting a better look at the video/pictures that police may have and we all know that's for when they finally do catch this guy and they can take him to trial. But in my very small amount of time I've spent interested in true crime (as I'm sure compared to others and professionals) I still really do think that someone out there knows with about 99% surety who this guy is. The FBI guy in yesterday's press conference and the other police officers made a good point. You know who this is, you recognize clothing or stature or now voice, even if very limited.

Ted Bundy was reported to the police as a person of interest several times and most from people that really felt it couldn't be him, but couldn't help but recognize him in the sketches and the police profiles.

So I guarantee you with 100% certainty, someone out there knows exactly who that is. And maybe they haven't come forward out of fear, but maybe they haven't come forward because they haven't heard of this story. I live in the south and it's not been talked about much down here from what I can tell. I only know about it because of this community. So hopefully the word gets out and that person that knows the suspect gets reached and they come forward.

This case is really confounding to say the least. Every day I hope for good news and I think I will until they find the guy. You know there are some cases you can't shake or let go of and I think this one is it for me. Or one of them.

Anyway, so yeah, just know that the police need to keep what little evidence they have close to the vest and that I guarantee someone knows exactly who this is. It's just a matter of time and exposure.

Peace.

In cases where there's little evidence of who the perp is, to back up tip information, and not much to go to court with except tips and vague unclear pictures and 1 second audio clips, I agree they need to hold something back. But that doesn't apply here, IMHO. Unless in fact (by some very odd circumstance) they don't have DNA or fingerprints. I'm not sure anyone knows who this is, but I'm sure there are people who are thinking hmm that looks a lot like . . . But they don't think he did it necessarily.

This is old-fashioned and outdated police practice. With DNA, you don't need to have a little scrap of information that will be known only to the perp. Done and done, thanks so much for the blood sample.

There's a monster on the loose, and in my opinion, best practice is to release the info to the public that will help locate and capture him.

 

[rpgman]

It's possible the rest of the audio is deeply disturbing and not something the parents and grandparents of those children need the public to see. They will see/hear it eventually if/when this goes to trial, but I know if there were disturbing video of a loved one, I wouldn't want Joe Schmoe to see/hear it if we didn't have to release it to the general public. I wouldn't want my baby's dying screams played on a loop for the world to hear. JMO

yea of course not...I wouldn't want that either...but if they do have footage of him walking and maybe the initial confrontation (audio)....it might help someone who knows him...just thinking out loud here....IMO

 

[Angelcat13]

My Dad grew up in Missouri, my sister lives in Indiana and I have lots of family in the mid-West. However, I'm a Jersey Girl so I don't know anything about this area. Something keeps drawing me to the meat packing plant - could be the proximity to the trails, the reported tire tracks (from a previous thread), the boots, etc.

Listening to the voice on the audio, I hear a very controlled voice - no hint of stress, fear, excitement, anger, etc. Very cold and calculating. Someone previously mentioned they possibly would be a Corrections Officer or some other authoritative job. I am thinking someone that works in a slaughterhouse - used to ordering animals around with no emotion or feeling - "(git) down the hill". I am not saying that everyone that works in this industry is cold, unfeeling, etc, however every industry has both good and bad people.

I don't know how long it takes to get DNA back (assuming, hopefully, that they have some) and how long it may take to run it through the system, but maybe he has been convicted of something previously but the results aren't back yet. Also, and someone here may be able to speak more about this, what criminal convictions REQUIRE the offender submit DNA? If this guy has a conviction for something more minor (possibly pled down from a more serious charge) OR if his conviction pre-dated mandatory DNA collection he could still have a record. If he is "older" 40's-50's could this be possible?

Boots - I posted earlier that I thought they looked like waders or muck boots (for barn work). The picture of the boots being taken into evidence resemble these types of boots.

I do think he is (or was) local or at least has spent significant amounts of time in the area since he seemed to quickly know where to lead them that he was less likely to be disturbed. Could he be a truck driver that frequently delivers to/from the packing plant? Being on the road could be an easy way to not having to account for his whereabouts - UNLESS he drives a truck that has a GPS locating system. We had a large trucking company in our town that equipped all of their rigs with GPS locating systems so they could track them in case of theft, etc. Anyone know if police have looked at this possibility to see if any of the incoming/outgoing trucks have these systems?

Lastly, the statement about a "set of footprints" - a "set" can mean a variety of things to different people. It doesn't necessarily mean that there were only two prints. Remember back to helping kids with their math homework? Anything included in the circle or square was considered a "set". In this case, the "set" could have been the footprints of the killer(s), Abigail and Liberty.

Sorry of the long post but I am brainstorming after a lot of thought. This case particularly bothers me because I have a 13 y/o son and 15 y/o daughter who spend a lot of time in the woods and fields on tractors, gators, quads and horses in what we have always felt is a "safe" area. My maiden name is Williams (from Missouri) so I also feel very connected to this in such a tragic way.

Prayers to all of the girls' family and friends, but also to the community, the moderators here, law enforcement, and everyone else who has been touched by this. Like others that have posted, I can't imagine the fear they felt, and I am so amazed at their presence of mind to record this. God bless them and may some comfort be found by knowing they may have saved so many other lives. Anyone that could kill like this will surely do it again - and likely has before.

 

[Jax49]

I keep seeing people refer to him as BG. Does that mean Bad Guy?

Bridge Guy

 

[bam]

My exhusband is a drifter. He would live in woods and on train tracks and in woods. Everyone thinks he's overdressed for the weather. If you camp you would know that is how you dress. It's always colder by water and in the woods. Indiana have many drifters, and sex offenders. It could be anyone. I'm from central Indiana. To me he sounds like southern Indiana or even around some parts of Kentucky.

 

[JeannaT]

This is a very good thought. Or even if she saw the guy at the beginning of the bridge and thought he was weird and then noticed he was walking the bridge behind them, too and got even more creeped out. I think with whatever scenario these girls went through, I think they had a sense something very wrong was about to happen and that just scares me to my core.

We always try to talk ourselves out of our gut feelings, but I feel like they knew and couldn't shake it. I really hope they are at peace and somewhere wonderful now. I hope more than anything their families can find peace somehow.

But again, very good point.

There was a study several years ago done with people who were victims of attempted kidnapping, or who were kidnapped and managed to live to tell about it. In nearly all cases, the victims felt strongly they were in danger but didn't react and run because they didn't want to look odd or rude. They didn't want to look like a ninny by suddenly running or breaking off a conversation and getting away fast. But that's key. And yes, these girls knew they were in danger. In this case, they were extra vulnerable because they were on a rickety looking bridge where they couldn't run quickly. They were kind of stuck. Lesson to take away - when you feel creeped out get out. That very moment. Don't wait for a socially graceful exit.

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

What type of footwear do workers use at the meat packing plant?

Again. On the cold floor, workers provide their own steel toe boots. On the killing floor, you are given waterproof steel toe boots you then turn back in after your shift.

Workers ask for their size and are given a pair. Boots are not "assigned." You don't get the same pair each day, necessarily.

 

[ambi]

I've been following these threads for the past week or so and have only just made an account so I can join in the conversation. (Yay for first post ever!)

Firstly, this is such a tragic incident. It's so saddening but I'm deeply humbled by the response from this community, the LE and the general public. Even the media has played a huge part in getting info out there.

These are some of my thoughts on the case:

I think the unsub is probably someone from the area, not too far out of town. Definitely someone who has a permanent home. I can't imagine a random passerby suddenly deciding to kill some innocent girls on their way through, especially not in the area they were hiking around. I believe he definitely knows his way through the wooded area. I think it was definitely planned in advance - I don't necessarily think he had a specific target though. Perhaps he decided he wanted to kill someone that day and chose the easiest / most vulnerable targets? I don't know. It's interesting to me that the LE believe it wasn't random - but i'm not 100% certain what they mean by this. (ie: I don't know whether they think the planned targets were Libby & Abby before they'd even been dropped off OR if they mean that the killer had planned to strike that day regardless of who it was)

I really don't think the murderer found them via social media though. Snapchat is a private app - only people you accept can see your shared photos and you choose who to share them with. I'd assume if they had a Facebook or Instagram that they would've had it set to private too. Also, most teens (from my experience anyway of having a lil' sister who is 14) don't tend to share where they're going or what they're doing until they're actually right in the middle of it. It just seems unlikely that the killer stumbled across a photo or check-in that afternoon and made his way there. It just seems really unlikely and he knew the area too well. It doesn't rule out everything though. Perhaps he had been stalking these girls or noticed them days prior to the killing. That's a mystery still.

In regards to the photos/videos found on Libby's phone - I know a lot of people are speculating whether they've been cropped but I honestly think she was just filming while holding her phone portrait ways. It's quite a narrow screen and I've definitely filmed on my phone like that before. I think they had noticed this man following them and she was documenting it to show her family or friends later the creepy guy that had been on their trail, assuming these photos are taken before they realised the true danger they were in. (I think this was beforehand purely because of his posture.. looking down, hands in pockets, all shrugged inwards? Seems like he is trying to play it cool) I think the stills may be from a video rather than an image due to the quality - the video quality of a standard smartphone is always a lower definition than photos. Either that or she is using an older model of a phone. It would be interesting to know what brand of phone she had. She was obviously trying to be sneaky due to the varying angles of a very similar image.

The audio is chilling and I've no doubts that there's a lot more of it but even if it is a video it may have been in her pocket - hence the muffled quality of the audio. I doubt there is actual moving footage of the perp during the attack because if he'd noticed that he would've taken the phones with him, right? I mean even if you stomp on a phone, the hard drive, memory and motherboard can easily be salvaged when you put the components in a brand new phone. Things upload to iCloud but you usually have to be connected to wifi and iCloud isn't something that can just be accessed and looked through - the technology doesn't work this way. She may not have had an iPhone either or have iCloud set up. The cops definitely found her phone, which leads me to believe that the phones were found on the bodies and explains why their phones rang for the first few hours and eventually stopped as they would've run out of batteries. I believe the killer had no idea that he had been documented and probably had a set idea of what he was going to do, went in, did that and got out of there. His mind would've been pre-occupied I'd imagine. He probably forgot about social media/camera apps and would've only noticed if they'd tried to call someone or text.

Lastly, I think it's a solo act? There's just something about it that seems like it was one guy. Most killers/pedophiles work alone - they sometimes communicate with others like themselves but apart of the kick is usually carrying out these tasks so it seems strange to me if there were two people working together - just a thought! No idea if it a repeat offender or first timer though. There isn't enough evidence for that yet. (Or there may be and it hasn't been released)


I thiiiiink this is all I've got for now. I've read through so many posts and people have some great insights. If you have anything to add or question feel free to reply!! Keep up the work guys.

PS: Edited for left out things or silly grammatical errors

 

[karst_runner]

I really wish that they had released their theory on his age. I feel like the picture shows an older man, but he could easily be a non-stylish younger man.

Purdue University is located right down the road. An out-of-towner college student could easily be unrecognizable to locals, yet still be living in the area.

The crime occurred during normal business hours. So either the guy doesn't work, works an odd shift / self-employed, had the day off, or is a student.

It strikes me as extremely strange that this occurred on a Monday from 1-5. I feel like if the photograph doesn't lead them to him, the odd hours could be his undoing. It eliminates a good portion of the working population.

I hope this SOB is shaking in his boots from all of the media coverage.









Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't know if this has been brought up so I apologize if it has but does the suspect have a mustache? It looks like it to me.

Yes, and possibly a goatee. This morning I saw where someone had enlarged just his facial area and for once I was able to see his mustache clearly even though parts of his face was distorted. To me it looked neat and trimmed and not shaggy around his upper lip as if he keeps it groomed on a regular basis.

I am beginning to think he isn't a drifter but is from another surrounding county in the area and lives at home with either a wife and children or lives alone with his mother/parents.

IMO

 

[JeannaT]

My exhusband is a drifter. He would live in woods and on train tracks and in woods. Everyone thinks he's overdressed for the weather. If you camp you would know that is how you dress. It's always colder by water and in the woods. Indiana have many drifters, and sex offenders. It could be anyone. I'm from central Indiana. To me he sounds like southern Indiana or even around some parts of Kentucky.

I agree. No one may really know this guy - he may be estranged from his family for years. He may be a complete drifter who has no friends. He may be a train hopper.

 

[steelman]

It's possible the rest of the audio is deeply disturbing and not something the parents and grandparents of those children need the public to see. They will see/hear it eventually if/when this goes to trial, but I know if there were disturbing video of a loved one, I wouldn't want Joe Schmoe to see/hear it if we didn't have to release it to the general public. I wouldn't want my baby's dying screams played on a loop for the world to hear. JMO

I'm not asking for them to release the entire video and audio clip to the public. Not to mention, they haven't a released a moving video clip at all......

How about we go with 5 seconds of a moving video clip of him on the bridge, ( shaky as it may be) ...................and 10 seconds of him talking..............good enough ?

That's about 10 times more than we have.

 

[GGE]

Then his DNA would be on file.

again, sorry just catching up with this thread though i've been following this case since it began.. if the guy did time in his 20s and is now in his 40s as this photo appears, his DNA wouldn't be in a database now IIRC from timelines I"ve read about the technology.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Just doesn't have the APPEARANCE of a drifter to me. Clothes look too clean and he doesn't look "unkempt" to me.

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

They have never said if a sexual assault took place. I speculate that at least one of the girls was. That would be the best source, but if one of the girls went out scratching and clawing, that could be another source.

Libby's grandfather stated he knew she fought like hell. Whether speculation or evidence based, who is to say? I do know the article is linked here somewhere.

 

[rpgman]

Yes, and possibly a goatee. This morning I saw where someone had enlarged just his facial area and for once I was able to see his mustache clearly even though parts of his face was distorted. To me it looked neat and trimmed and not shaggy around his upper lip as if he keeps it groomed on a regular basis.

I am beginning to think he isn't a drifter but is from another surrounding county in the area and lives at home with either a wife and children or lives alone with his mother/parents.

IMO

good catch...I saw that also (looks like his facial hair is trimmed) and I didn't put 2 and 2 together...yea could be someone in the surrounding area and has a wife and children.

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

I wonder if the meat packing plant hires temp workers ?

They hire RSOs, illegals and others who have a difficult time finding employment. Their turn over rate is quite high.