IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #8

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There was a study several years ago done with people who were victims of attempted kidnapping, or who were kidnapped and managed to live to tell about it. In nearly all cases, the victims felt strongly they were in danger but didn't react and run because they didn't want to look odd or rude. They didn't want to look like a ninny by suddenly running or breaking off a conversation and getting away fast. But that's key. And yes, these girls knew they were in danger. In this case, they were extra vulnerable because they were on a rickety looking bridge where they couldn't run quickly. They were kind of stuck. Lesson to take away - when you feel creeped out get out. That very moment. Don't wait for a socially graceful exit.

That's very interesting. I had an experience years ago that I was compelled to leave as quickly as possible yet I was also, as a woman, compelled to be polite. Fortunately I left. If I'd stayed I'm certain I'd have been raped at the very least but possibly murdered.

I don't know if men deal with this, but it was VERY difficult for me to overcome that training to be polite. Very difficult. I stood around for a good ten minutes trying to overcome it. And this guy was a virtual stranger. If I'd known him I don't know how it would have ended. I was also young. These days as a middle aged woman I'm much more confident in my instincts.
 
My Dad grew up in Missouri, my sister lives in Indiana and I have lots of family in the mid-West. However, I'm a Jersey Girl so I don't know anything about this area. Something keeps drawing me to the meat packing plant - could be the proximity to the trails, the reported tire tracks (from a previous thread), the boots, etc.

Listening to the voice on the audio, I hear a very controlled voice - no hint of stress, fear, excitement, anger, etc. Very cold and calculating. Someone previously mentioned they possibly would be a Corrections Officer or some other authoritative job. I am thinking someone that works in a slaughterhouse - used to ordering animals around with no emotion or feeling - "(git) down the hill". I am not saying that everyone that works in this industry is cold, unfeeling, etc, however every industry has both good and bad people.

I don't know how long it takes to get DNA back (assuming, hopefully, that they have some) and how long it may take to run it through the system, but maybe he has been convicted of something previously but the results aren't back yet. Also, and someone here may be able to speak more about this, what criminal convictions REQUIRE the offender submit DNA? If this guy has a conviction for something more minor (possibly pled down from a more serious charge) OR if his conviction pre-dated mandatory DNA collection he could still have a record. If he is "older" 40's-50's could this be possible?

Boots - I posted earlier that I thought they looked like waders or muck boots (for barn work). The picture of the boots being taken into evidence resemble these types of boots.

I do think he is (or was) local or at least has spent significant amounts of time in the area since he seemed to quickly know where to lead them that he was less likely to be disturbed. Could he be a truck driver that frequently delivers to/from the packing plant? Being on the road could be an easy way to not having to account for his whereabouts - UNLESS he drives a truck that has a GPS locating system. We had a large trucking company in our town that equipped all of their rigs with GPS locating systems so they could track them in case of theft, etc. Anyone know if police have looked at this possibility to see if any of the incoming/outgoing trucks have these systems?

Lastly, the statement about a "set of footprints" - a "set" can mean a variety of things to different people. It doesn't necessarily mean that there were only two prints. Remember back to helping kids with their math homework? Anything included in the circle or square was considered a "set". In this case, the "set" could have been the footprints of the killer(s), Abigail and Liberty.

Sorry of the long post but I am brainstorming after a lot of thought. This case particularly bothers me because I have a 13 y/o son and 15 y/o daughter who spend a lot of time in the woods and fields on tractors, gators, quads and horses in what we have always felt is a "safe" area. My maiden name is Williams (from Missouri) so I also feel very connected to this in such a tragic way.

Prayers to all of the girls' family and friends, but also to the community, the moderators here, law enforcement, and everyone else who has been touched by this. Like others that have posted, I can't imagine the fear they felt, and I am so amazed at their presence of mind to record this. God bless them and may some comfort be found by knowing they may have saved so many other lives. Anyone that could kill like this will surely do it again - and likely has before.

Well...... why was he out there?
If a local.....who didn't show up for work that day or who was off?
 
I really wish that they had released their theory on his age. I feel like the picture shows an older man, but he could easily be a non-stylish younger man.

Purdue University is located right down the road. An out-of-towner college student could easily be unrecognizable to locals, yet still be living in the area.

The crime occurred during normal business hours. So either the guy doesn't work, works an odd shift / self-employed, had the day off, or is a student.

It strikes me as extremely strange that this occurred on a Monday from 1-5. I feel like if the photograph doesn't lead them to him, the odd hours could be his undoing. It eliminates a good portion of the working population.

I hope this SOB is shaking in his boots from all of the media coverage.









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Didn't they say the girls were off school that day? Could be school employee?


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They hire RSOs, illegals and others who have a difficult time finding employment. Their turn over rate is quite high.

How far is this plant from where the girls were? Something about that plant... Maybe he was a ex worker. moo
 
Funny, I was just posting an FBI question myself. Is it due to local authorities not having the resources?
Due to being two young victims, small community and a possible internet connection....in my opinion.
 
There was a study several years ago done with people who were victims of attempted kidnapping, or who were kidnapped and managed to live to tell about it. In nearly all cases, the victims felt strongly they were in danger but didn't react and run because they didn't want to look odd or rude. They didn't want to look like a ninny by suddenly running or breaking off a conversation and getting away fast. But that's key. And yes, these girls knew they were in danger. In this case, they were extra vulnerable because they were on a rickety looking bridge where they couldn't run quickly. They were kind of stuck. Lesson to take away - when you feel creeped out get out. That very moment. Don't wait for a socially graceful exit.

One of the dumbest things (as a full grown woman) I've ever done was to get on an elevator with a very sketchy looking man (disguised, actually....dressed way too warmly for the weather) because I didn't want to offend him. Thank God I was ok because 5 minutes after our elevator ride he robbed the bank in the building we were in.
 
Definitely could've and that is also a red flag that could help bring him in. Someone who knows him is like "weird, he's had a mustache for 20 years and just shaved it, got a haircut, etc". Definite red flag
 
He would be walking toward the girls in those stills from the video since it is Liberty's phone recording the video. If you mean where the bodies were found, no, he is headed toward the southern end of the bridge whereas the girls were found east of the northern end of the bridge on the opposite side of the creek.

In trying to picture this I find myself wondering if he took Abby first and Libby was recording to try to help her friend but he got her too in the end. :(
 
Well...... why was he out there?
If a local.....who didn't show up for work that day or who was off?

Maybe he has a bit of freedom in his job, travelling around for parts of the day? maybe does repairs? odd jobs? doesn't have a set time to be in a location and can keep in touch by phone, email etc? Probably a bit of a stretch of imagination but possible? :)
 
Why was he out there? Trolling, hunting (for a victim). Having read a lot about serial killers (I was a member of IAFN - International Association of Forensic Nurses) a lot of them report (after being convicted) that the "hunt" was half the "fun". Stalking, choosing a victim, fantasizing about what they would do, feeling the power of knowing they were "this close" to their victim and their victim didn't know it yet, etc - these are all things they get off on.

Who wasn't at work - not everyone has a clock-in 9-5. Truck drivers, delivery people, self-employed, scheduled day off, night shift, etc.
 
If he works at that meat packing plant you can be sure multiple people have contacted police. Apparently they have a high turnover rate and probably employ people who would really want that reward money.
 
I just typed a long post out and it just vanished before I could post it :(. I still keep dwelling on that guy associated with the high bridge on Facebook and how similar he dresses. The jeans and hoodie over cap etc. I feel guilty as he probably is innocent and I keep bringing him up. He only had three friends on his list and his wife was a member of the the missing persons group in that area. I think the tip has been called in by a few people so I guess it must not be him . I have not called it in as I am sure it has. Sorry to keep harping on about it. Anyhow I shortened this post . I guess I brought it up again after reading posts saying he may be a water person or rides a motorcycle. I think he had a motorcycle in one pic. I can not quite remember. Many people look similar to each other so I should stop dwelling on this. .
 
One of the dumbest things (as a full grown woman) I've ever done was to get on an elevator with a very sketchy looking man (disguised, actually....dressed way too warmly for the weather) because I didn't want to offend him. Thank God I was ok because 5 minutes after our elevator ride he robbed the bank in the building we were in.

I did that too. When the doors closed, this guy said in a really creepy voice, "most women won't get on an elevator alone with me". I quickly pushed the button for the next floor, held my hand over the "emergency call phone" until I could get off.

I don't care if he thinks I'm a ninny. ;D I'm not having any more of that!

Wow, glad you're ok! There's a lot to be said for being observant, and getting out when you get that creepy feeling.
 
Maybe he has a bit of freedom in his job, travelling around for parts of the day? maybe does repairs? odd jobs? doesn't have a set time to be in a location and can keep in touch by phone, email etc? Probably a bit of a stretch of imagination but possible? :)


A salesman would have a schedule like this. My uncle sold heavy farm equipment and spent all day on the road.
 
Wow! I tell my kids all of the time - it is not your job to help an adult with directions, to find a lost pet, etc. It is not your job to be "nice" if you feel something isn't right. Go by your gut. Don't worry about appearing judgmental or to stereotype if you feel you're in a situation that could turn wrong.

Our inner voice is what can keep us safe - but only if we listen to it. Unfortunately, sometimes even this isn't enough to keep us safe.
 
I am quite certain that he is reading here. And posting too. Don't ask me how I know that. Call it a hunch. I get "readings." I have no idea if they are accurate or not, but I do get them. Doesn't mean I am psychic but I use these readings to make a lot of decisions in my life.

Also I get a creepy feeling he is here with us.

Not only that, but I believe I know who this person is. I know their handle.

I can't prove any of this. Just a theory of mine.

Me too!!!
 
Also, not to judge anyone's fashion sense, but everything about his pants screams "dad jeans" at me. The style, with the shoes. I do a lot of thrifting(I like repurposing old fabric patterns) and everything he is wearing looks like a lot of the stuff you see on racks at goodwill. He is very dated.


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It all reminds me of my own husband's fashion style - he works with his hands and gets dirty and doesn't care for shopping so he buys a couple of the same pants and tshirts at once, usually at a tactor supply type store, and wears a carhartt type jacket like this guy in the pic, and that's that. Doesn't buy anything new until the old wears through, doesn't wash anything until it is so dirty it can stand on it's own. This guy just looks like a manual laborer/trucker to me IMO.
 
I always thought that what you are seeing as possibly blood on his jeans as a untucked shirt sticking out! Now that I had seen that the police was at the meat packing plant, I am thinking maybe he worked their and it's blood from his job.

I asked people a few days ago how far the plant was from where the girls came up missing and they said about 2 miles away.
Once I heard about the meat packing plant being out that way, I couldn't get that out of my head that just maybe the person on the bridge worked there. Kind of hard to believe just a day or so I am curious about the plant and then the police ended up there.
I wonder if they had the employees go back into work or had them go home?


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If you look at the one photo, that colored area looks like a stain. However, if you look at the other pboto, with his foot forward, it looks like a 3 dimensional object, such as a fanny pack or something similar.
 
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