IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[newredtabby]

Looking at RSOs is standard procedure, moo.

(I do believe SA was the motive here, moo.)

And, since it is standard procedure, that means it is more likely than not that SA was the motive for this crime.


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[Satchie]

JMO
I dont think he has been caught much in the past 5 or 10 years. I think he has honed his skills to where he doesnt get caught. I also think he doesnt kill very often which has kept him from being caught. I think he plans well in advance for when he decides he is going to do his next abduction and murder. I think he is getting so much satisfaction from his planning that he doesnt kill very often. He could be in planning mode for a couple years or more.

Snipped to save space.

I agree with your profile.

I don't think this was a completely spur of the moment abduction, because he appears to have come equipped: for eg the stuff he needs is hidden in his jacket, rather than inaccessibly in a backpack. But if victims hadn't been found that afternoon, perhaps he'd have just left and not gone back there, or gone there only from time to time. (We don't know for sure whether witnesses saw him in the area an earlier day).

My impression, therefore, is this is someone who comes prepared, but is also patient. He waits until suitable victim(s) come alone to the south end of the bridge, and otherwise he just blends in as another hiker.

That's why I wonder if he goes to various trails, recreation areas, to explore and scope them out as potential crime sites. Almost like a hobby. So he's comfortable and experienced being in that environment.

It appears he made Libby nervous, and she took his photo (unless she was intent on photographing Abby, and just accidentally got him in the pic). If he'd just passed by tho, because someone else was coming, would she have mentioned the creepy guy on the bridge to anyone?

Now that most girls have phones, I hope they're being encouraged to take photos of anyone who creeps them even a bit.

 

[sweet716]

Another similarity is, the perp(s) found the victims by going to a trail in a recreational area in the middle of the day.

That is, didn't go near a school, or a shopping mall, or a rec centre, all somewhat more obvious choices.

The Iowa perp, it seems to me, also approached his victims on foot. A vehicle couldn't get close to where their bikes and the purse were found.

Another similarity is choosing to abduct girls from a very small town, less than 5k population. Did the perp(s) count on girls and their parents feeling safer in a small town?

One difference is that L & L were definitely taken away to another location and kept for an unknown time. The Seven Bridges area in Iowa is so remote, a perp would never find girls there, and went somewhere else to abduct them. (But Evansville is not the closest small town)

It's been suggested that A & L could have been taken away, and then returned in the night, but I don't know how much to credit that.

Another similarity, considering the unusual MO above, is no rumours of failed attempts to abduct girls in the area, prior to these crimes. So the perp(s) were...what's the word...not bumblers.

I wouldn't mind us discussing this aspect of the crime. What is the consensus on if they were killed on the scene or traveled to another location? Did they look into her phone pings around the time of the murder?

I'm leaning towards they were killed on scene, because "down the hill" I personally take to mean down the very steep hill, which is actually more like a cliff in some ways. Then across the water.

However,I fully acknowledge he could have meant down the hill, down the drive a bit to where a car was waiting though. It may be easier to conceptualize if you've seen a re-enactment video on the actual site.

I have more thoughts but just wanted to focus on the off-site on-site aspect first.

 

[kidetect22]

Dotr posted this in another thread. It's very simple to understand. Hope it helps.

Interesting! Makes perfectly good sense really. Thanks

 

[kkdj]

I think we should explore the idea that some backpacks can be worn in front, which would make him appear with more of a stomach, heavier than he really is. With that thought, it might explain the white rope looking thing around his neck. Could be part of the backpack strappings.
Didn't LE ask about a backpack in the beginning? Why was that?

 

[kkdj]

I wouldn't mind us discussing this aspect of the crime. What is the consensus on if they were killed on the scene or traveled to another location? Did they look into her phone pings around the time of the murder?

I'm leaning towards they were killed on scene, because "down the hill" I personally take to mean down the very steep hill, which is actually more like a cliff in some ways. Then across the water.

However,I fully acknowledge he could have meant down the hill, down the drive a bit to where a car was waiting though. It may be easier to conceptualize if you've seen a re-enactment video on the actual site.

I have more thoughts but just wanted to focus on the off-site on-site aspect first.

Although iirc LE said they were killed in a small time frame, I can't help but wonder if they were taken somewhere. Iirc Gpa has mentioned that the cell phone was pinging in several different areas. I guess the killer could have taken just the cell phone with him, possibly to throw off LE. Did they find the cell phone near the bodies? I can't remember.

 

[kidetect22]

Although iirc LE said they were killed in a small time frame, I can't help but wonder if they were taken somewhere. Iirc Gpa has mentioned that the cell phone was pinging in several different areas. I guess the killer could have taken just the cell phone with him, possibly to throw off LE. Did they find the cell phone near the bodies? I can't remember.

I feel like they never said- from my terrible memory! they said video was off Libby’s phone but never that they had it itself... I always felt maybe they found it in the creek when LE was in the creek that day after finding them- I still remember watching that unfold and thinking - good god, what will they possibly find!

 

[kkdj]

I feel like they never said- from my terrible memory! they said video was off Libby’s phone but never that they had it itself... I always felt maybe they found it in the creek when LE was in the creek that day after finding them- I still remember watching that unfold and thinking - good god, what will they possibly find!

That's what i thought......they never said if they have the actual phone. So, if it was pinging in different area, the killer might have had it trying to delete whatever he could. Finally it died or was turned off. all jmo

 

[kidetect22]

That's what i thought......they never said if they have the actual phone. So, if it was pinging in different area, the killer might have had it trying to delete whatever he could. Finally it died or was turned off. all jmo

I almost wondered too if he disposed of it in the creek, and it was pinging just from water malfunction if that makes sense ? Phones do weird things under abnormal circumstances ! I almost hope he did keep the phone- whose to say that he won’t be found with it one day and that’s just more helpful evidence!

Throwing this out there too- I always wonder if one day- that BG will run into Abby’s mom or Libby’s grandma one day, maybe a grocery store or a local restaurant and women’s intuition will set in and it will hit them- like this is the guy!!! I feel like women sense things men can’t- and that will be all it takes!

 

[Satchie]

I wouldn't mind us discussing this aspect of the crime. What is the consensus on if they were killed on the scene or traveled to another location? Did they look into her phone pings around the time of the murder?

I'm leaning towards they were killed on scene, because "down the hill" I personally take to mean down the very steep hill, which is actually more like a cliff in some ways. Then across the water.

However,I fully acknowledge he could have meant down the hill, down the drive a bit to where a car was waiting though. It may be easier to conceptualize if you've seen a re-enactment video on the actual site.

I have more thoughts but just wanted to focus on the off-site on-site aspect first.

Frustrating thing is, LE know, we can only guess.

Taking 2 teens down a cliff and across the creek doesn't seem like a great plan to me. Makes more sense to force them into a vehicle and escape from the area. Or just attack them there below the bridge, and be gone. The forced hike seems very risky - you lose the element of surprise, one victim might decide to run and scream.

But, on the other hand, returning the bodies to that awkward locstion also seems nuts. If he had them in a vehicle, no reason to bring them back.

 

[Boxer]

Frustrating thing is, LE know, we can only guess.

Taking 2 teens down a cliff and across the creek doesn't seem like a great plan to me. Makes more sense to force them into a vehicle and escape from the area. Or just attack them there below the bridge, and be gone. The forced hike seems very risky - you lose the element of surprise, one victim might decide to run and scream.

But, on the other hand, returning the bodies to that awkward locstion also seems nuts. If he had them in a vehicle, no reason to bring them back.

True. One idea is they made a run for it, he caught one and the other turned back. Then he killed them right there.

 

[gregjrichards]

Frustrating thing is, LE know, we can only guess.

Taking 2 teens down a cliff and across the creek doesn't seem like a great plan to me. Makes more sense to force them into a vehicle and escape from the area. Or just attack them there below the bridge, and be gone. The forced hike seems very risky - you lose the element of surprise, one victim might decide to run and scream.

But, on the other hand, returning the bodies to that awkward locstion also seems nuts. If he had them in a vehicle, no reason to bring them back.

It’s very distressing to think about as whatever went down must have been terrifying and the worst experience imaginable. I personally believe and hope it was very quick. I think he appeared out of nowhere and attacked and killed the girls quickly “down the hill” and then he vanished back into society.

I don’t believe he kidnapped the girls, then forced them into a vehicle, drove to another location, attacked and killed and then drove back and left the girls remains for the searchers to find. That would be way too risky in my opinion.

 

[drama_farmer]

I remember reading that both girls enjoyed nature, crafts and photography, and one or both mentioned "photography" as an activity they liked to do at MHB. I was wondering if anyone remembers seeing anything from MSM about the girls bringing a "real" camera (dSLR or similar) with them that day.

IME, (as someone who has dabbled in nature and wildlife photography), I'll bring my "real" camera with me if I'm trying to capture the flora and fauna of an area, or for close-ups/wildlife behavior shots. Smartphone cams are so far advanced these days that if I'm interested in landscape scenes, panorama shots, etc. and I don't need a very high resolution for printing, the built-in cam will suffice.

I don't know what significance (if any) that fact would have on the case, just curious if it's another piece in this heartbreaking puzzle.

IMO/IME/just wondering

 

[Jax49]

The phone was found with the girls.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news...recovered-slain-delphi-teens-phone/566691001/

Sgt. Holeman tells us investigators recovered more audio from Libby’s phone, which was found with the girls at the crime scene.

Also, in earlier threads several knowledgeable posters explained that the phone pinging different towers does not mean it was moving. (Hope I remember that correctly. Anyone?)

bbm

moo

ETA link

 

[gregjrichards]

I remember reading that both girls enjoyed nature, crafts and photography, and one or both mentioned "photography" as an activity they liked to do at MHB. I was wondering if anyone remembers seeing anything from MSM about the girls bringing a "real" camera (dSLR or similar) with them that day.

IME, (as someone who has dabbled in nature and wildlife photography), I'll bring my "real" camera with me if I'm trying to capture the flora and fauna of an area, or for close-ups/wildlife behavior shots. Smartphone cams are so far advanced these days that if I'm interested in landscape scenes, panorama shots, etc. and I don't need a very high resolution for printing, the built-in cam will suffice.

I don't know what significance (if any) that fact would have on the case, just curious if it's another piece in this heartbreaking puzzle.

IMO/IME/just wondering

Abigail used to borrow her mum’s camera to take photos as she did not yet have a cell/mobile phone. I don’t know if she had it with her that day. I don’t know if Liberty had a camera and if it was with her that day. Like a lot of young people she may have just used her iPhone as phones take decent camera quality pictures nowadays.

 

[Jax49]

I remember reading that both girls enjoyed nature, crafts and photography, and one or both mentioned "photography" as an activity they liked to do at MHB. I was wondering if anyone remembers seeing anything from MSM about the girls bringing a "real" camera (dSLR or similar) with them that day.

IME, (as someone who has dabbled in nature and wildlife photography), I'll bring my "real" camera with me if I'm trying to capture the flora and fauna of an area, or for close-ups/wildlife behavior shots. Smartphone cams are so far advanced these days that if I'm interested in landscape scenes, panorama shots, etc. and I don't need a very high resolution for printing, the built-in cam will suffice.

I don't know what significance (if any) that fact would have on the case, just curious if it's another piece in this heartbreaking puzzle.

IMO/IME/just wondering

As far as I know, they only had the one phone with them.

moo

 

[Jabarn]

That's what i thought......they never said if they have the actual phone. So, if it was pinging in different area, the killer might have had it trying to delete whatever he could. Finally it died or was turned off. all jmo

That is one aspect of this whole crime I can’t sort out satisfactorily in my own mind... the cell phone pinging about while the initial search was going on. Over time, I have thought it was a Find my iPhone feature Libby’s grandparents were doing.

Looking back, I do wonder if BG was walking around with the phone. LE could have gotten the images from the cloud.

How in Hades is this guy not caught?

 

[newredtabby]

That's what i thought......they never said if they have the actual phone. So, if it was pinging in different area, the killer might have had it trying to delete whatever he could. Finally it died or was turned off. all jmo

Yes LE has stated they have the phone. It was reported it was found in the general area of the bodies.


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[terpstra1]

This. I think he probably was looking for a female victim. He ended up with 2 teens instead. He was prepared to subdue.

Locals: how frequent do single females go hiking or trail running in that region?


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That's always been my thought also. I think he was looking for a lone female. When he couldn't find one he took the two girls.
Early on locals were commenting that women hiked the trails often. Some were sad the didn't feel safe walking their dogs on the trails anymore.

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[Jabarn]

Yes LE has stated they have the phone. It was reported it was found in the general area of the bodies.


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I guess is was... so strange about the reports of the phone pinging around town.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11801229

This is an older article, but clarifies the location of where the phone was found, and substantiates what you are saying, redtabby:

https://www.indystar.com/story/news...recovered-slain-delphi-teens-phone/566691001/