IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #8

[mheido67]

I wonder if KW was drawn over to the windows by both SA crying on the floor about thinking there was glass? Then not seeing Chloe by him, looked out the window. I had read many times on WS that after the buffet, Chloe and mom changed into their swim suits, dad and brother were on another deck in a larger pool. I've never read where the others were.

It's always been my thought that even if she couldn't watch the video herself, she would have her business friends and friends of the father (police and lawyers) watch the film for her. They could have then told her in kinder words what the video showed.

MOO

All the pools are on the same deck. The kids H2O Zone is seperated from the main pool by a structure in the middle of the deck one would have to walk around. If AW and the brother were in the other pool it would have only taken seconds for AW to get to the area where SA was.

I'm sure MW has described what the video shows to KW and AW. But the accuracy of his description could be suspect seeing as he has a bit of a bias.

 

[JulieBEMT]

All the pools are on the same deck. The kids H2O Zone is seperated from the main pool by a structure in the middle of the deck one would have to walk around. If AW and the brother were in the other pool it would have only taken seconds for AW to get to the area where SA was.

I'm sure MW has described what the video shows to KW and AW. But the accuracy of his description could be suspect seeing as he has a bit of a bias.

I am so glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I read this, or it would have been all over my laptop! IMO, the accuracy of anything that comes out of his mouth is suspect.

 

[mheido67]

I am so glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I read this, or it would have been all over my laptop! IMO, the accuracy of anything that comes out of his mouth is suspect.

You could probably get MW to sue me. Or he probably knows a guy at least.

 

[loveandhugs]

All the pools are on the same deck. The kids H2O Zone is seperated from the main pool by a structure in the middle of the deck one would have to walk around. If AW and the brother were in the other pool it would have only taken seconds for AW to get to the area where SA was.

I'm sure MW has described what the video shows to KW and AW. But the accuracy of his description could be suspect seeing as he has a bit of a bias.

I still have concerns that KW knew what she was doing when she left Chloe with SA. Something just does not add up with her reaction since her daughter’s death. jMO but still deep down in my being wonder if this was planned. The defending of SA just does make sense when it comes to a child. I do not feel other family members were involved, at least I hope not. I am not saying I am right, it is a feeling that nags me. We have seen too many people who kill get on television and say how much they loved their spouse or child, how perfect life was, and in the end we find out it was not what they wanted us to believe. This is all JMO, hope I am wrong, but if this is fact, i want the truth to come out.

 

[Safetybug]

There was no aversion to launching their lawsuit; that's certain.
Imo.

This! And now it's all about them, even though SA literally dropped her out of that window. This ignorance of the facts by the parents is sickening. Don't they want justice for Chloe ?

Agreed! And I was thinking
what if the roles were reversed?! ... if the parents were the LE and prosecuting attorney in this case ... AW would have no qualms with slapping on a negligent homicide charge (or worse) and KW would passionately pursue jail time for the offender as dictated by the judicial system. They would do their job impartially, leaving it up to a Judge to decide to whether to minimize a sentence based not just on remorse but also on admission of guilt.

IMO It is beyond outrageous that the parents despite/or because of their professional backgrounds display the polar opposite! Especially in how they expect/demand that SA basically get a “monopoly” get-off-the-hook free card & pass GO & collect “unlimited” millions from RCCL

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I still have concerns that KW knew what she was doing when she left Chloe with SA. Something just does not add up with her reaction since her daughter’s death. jMO but still deep down in my being wonder if this was planned. The defending of SA just does make sense when it comes to a child. I do not feel other family members were involved, at least I hope not. I am not saying I am right, it is a feeling that nags me. We have seen too many people who kill get on television and say how much they loved their spouse or child, how perfect life was, and in the end we find out it was not what they wanted us to believe. This is all JMO, hope I am wrong, but if this is fact, i want the truth to come out.

^^THIS^^

 

[LietKynes]

@LietKynes sbm
Re bbm, okay, if so, how would SA's W (i.e., KSW's mother) learn about this? Was she close enough that she could see SA at window w Chloe or falling to his knees? Close enough we could see her in vids publicly released?
Not trying to argue, these details have me baffled.
Did everyone in group still have cells in hand, in touch that way?
Did KSW finish her cruise-matter, return to Deck 11 as planned, and came back to this horror?

Yes !
When a "like" is not enough.
Not at all... I totally agree !!!
This entire case stinks like there's something rotten in the state of Denmark.
Something's not right with the entire group.
So choreographed it would seem.
And if investigators are doing their due diligence, and if SA doesn't take a plea deal--- a lot could be unearthed at a trial that some would rather be kept under wraps.

 

[LietKynes]

Agreed! And I was thinking
what if the roles were reversed?! ... if the parents were the LE and prosecuting attorney in this case ... AW would have no qualms with slapping on a negligent homicide charge (or worse) and KW would passionately pursue jail time for the offender as dictated by the judicial system. They would do their job impartially, leaving it up to a Judge to decide to whether to minimize a sentence based not just on remorse but also on admission of guilt.

IMO It is beyond outrageous that the parents despite/or because of their professional backgrounds display the polar opposite! Especially in how they expect/demand that SA basically get a “monopoly” get-off-the-hook free card & pass GO & collect “unlimited” millions from RCCL

bbm
It's all about the money, honey.....
Ca-ching !
Think about it-- who wants to accept a plea deal and say they're guilty of negligence at least, if it means forgoing the unlimited payout ?
It's not about Chloe anymore.

 

[JulieBEMT]

I still have concerns that KW knew what she was doing when she left Chloe with SA. Something just does not add up with her reaction since her daughter’s death. jMO but still deep down in my being wonder if this was planned. The defending of SA just does make sense when it comes to a child. I do not feel other family members were involved, at least I hope not. I am not saying I am right, it is a feeling that nags me. We have seen too many people who kill get on television and say how much they loved their spouse or child, how perfect life was, and in the end we find out it was not what they wanted us to believe. This is all JMO, hope I am wrong, but if this is fact, i want the truth to come out.

I have to agree with you. JMOO, but I don't feel like I am seeing the actions of a mother who truly loved her daughter. The way I see it, she chose her step-father over her daughter. It would be one thing if this were her actual father and she'd always been "daddy's little girl." But he's not. So my questions are these: How old was KW when he moved in with her mother? Was she still living at home? If not, why would she ever stand by the man who so carelessly dropped her child 11 stories out a window? If he did move in when she was younger, is it possible that her feelings for him are complicated due to something even more sinister? Please note: I am not saying anything happened. I am saying these, and many more, are questions that I have. Why? Because I simply cannot fathom the way these two people have behaved since they boarded that ship.

Watching the press conference where they announced the lawsuit, AW looked like he was struggling just to breathe as the tears flowed down his face. KW had that same fake cry (with no tears) that SA did in his CBS interview. Her words and actions all felt very rehearsed; right down to the way she tucked her hair behind her ear.

Agreed! And I was thinking
what if the roles were reversed?! ... if the parents were the LE and prosecuting attorney in this case ... AW would have no qualms with slapping on a negligent homicide charge (or worse) and KW would passionately pursue jail time for the offender as dictated by the judicial system. They would do their job impartially, leaving it up to a Judge to decide to whether to minimize a sentence based not just on remorse but also on admission of guilt.

IMO It is beyond outrageous that the parents despite/or because of their professional backgrounds display the polar opposite! Especially in how they expect/demand that SA basically get a “monopoly” get-off-the-hook free card & pass GO & collect “unlimited” millions from RCCL

I could not agree more! How can two supposed "professionals" in fields of law enforcement and prosecution have the nerve to publicly condemn charges being filed against the man who killed their daughter? The nerve and hypocrisy of this is beyond belief!

 

[mheido67]

Agreed! And I was thinking
what if the roles were reversed?! ... if the parents were the LE and prosecuting attorney in this case ... AW would have no qualms with slapping on a negligent homicide charge (or worse) and KW would passionately pursue jail time for the offender as dictated by the judicial system. They would do their job impartially, leaving it up to a Judge to decide to whether to minimize a sentence based not just on remorse but also on admission of guilt.

IMO It is beyond outrageous that the parents despite/or because of their professional backgrounds display the polar opposite! Especially in how they expect/demand that SA basically get a “monopoly” get-off-the-hook free card & pass GO & collect “unlimited” millions from RCCL

Of course what you are describing is a perfect illustration of why LE, legal professionals & judges are required to recuse themselves when they have a personal relationship to someone involved in a case. Because it can't be assumed that they will not let their personal feelings towards a person overrule their duty to the court. The family is rallying around SA because they have some other entity that they can foist the blame off onto.

 

[JulieBEMT]

Yes !
When a "like" is not enough.
Not at all... I totally agree !!!
This entire case stinks like there's something rotten in the state of Denmark.
Something's not right with the entire group.
So choreographed it would seem.
And if investigators are doing their due diligence, and if SA doesn't take a plea deal--- a lot could be unearthed at a trial that some would rather be kept under wraps.

I think we were typing at the same time, and we both have very similar thoughts.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

bbm
It's all about the money, honey.....
Ca-ching !
Think about it-- who wants to accept a plea deal and say they're guilty of negligence at least, if it means forgoing the unlimited payout ?
It's not about Chloe anymore.

BBM Was it ever, though?

 

[Safetybug]

bbm
It's all about the money, honey.....
Ca-ching !
Think about it-- who wants to accept a plea deal and say they're guilty of negligence at least, if it means forgoing the unlimited payout ?
It's not about Chloe anymore.

MW in the first 45 seconds of the Dec 11 press conference said “the singular goal is to raise awareness about window falls to try to prevent this from ever happening to another child again” ... but then he says minutes later how fortuitous $$$ that this happened while in port etc. They have yet to lock in on a figure. MW totally rejects any notion that it was a “freak accident” dispelling any inkling that it was an accident like most family sympathizers imagines it was. So that’s zero culpability for SA. This is all getting fishier and fishier. If it hadn’t happened in port I felt it would probably been CW dropped into the ocean but now I know that just wasn’t fortuitous enough. $$$. imo.

 

[mheido67]

MW in the first 45 seconds of the Dec 11 press conference said “the singular goal is to raise awareness about window falls to try to prevent this from ever happening to another child again” ... but then he says minutes later how fortuitous $$$ that this happened while in port etc. They have yet to lock in on a figure. MW totally rejects any notion that it was a “freak accident” dispelling any inkling that it was an accident like most family sympathizers imagines it was. So that’s zero culpability for SA. This is all getting fishier and fishier. If it hadn’t happened in port I felt it would probably been CW dropped into the ocean but now I know that just wasn’t fortuitous enough. $$$. imo.

Well, the question was about what damages they would seek after MW made the comment that the goal was to prevent future tragedies so one could make the case (if being charitable) that what he meant with his fortuitous comment was that it was fortuitous because it increased their leverage to force RCCL to institute changes to the, in his opinion, dangerous windows. If all RCCL had to do was pay a minimal financial amount because of the Death on the High Seas Act the plaintiffs would have little leverage to force changes to the ship. If RCCL pays out hundreds of millions of dollars you can be pretty damn sure those windows will be modified or receive warning stickers. Whether that is stipulated by MW et al as part of any judgement or settlement will tell everyone a lot about what the families priorities are.

 

[Kakidoll]

Has anyone added up all the and FB fundraisers for a total they received? in addition to RCCL paying for their transportation home etc? Just curious.

 

[LietKynes]

@Kakidoll ; not sure about that. Good question.
Supposedly they'd asked for 'help' to pay for the older brother to play hockey in Canada.
Which is extremely odd as the Wiegand's purported(i.e., 'stated to be true, though not necessarily so; aka alleged'.) the theory that Chloe wanted to 'bang on the glass like she did at her brother's hockey games'.
They even provided to news outlets photos of Chloe leaning her hands against the glass at one of her brothers' games.
That poor brother has to be writhing with guilt that his games and Chloes' death are now tied together in msm via Winkleman and the parent's lawsuit.
Why keep on pushing him to play hockey ? Weird doesn't begin to describe these people.
SA said that Chloe 'asked to be lifted up to the window to bang on the glass'.
So in hindsight the blame is on Chloe.

And yes you're correct, RCCL paid for their return trip home.
But that's not nearly enough, RCCL !! *sarcasm intended*

 

[mheido67]

@Kakidoll ; not sure about that. Good question.
Supposedly they'd asked for 'help' to pay for the older brother to play hockey in Canada.
Which is extremely odd as the Wiegand's purported(i.e., 'stated to be true, though not necessarily so; aka alleged'.) the theory that Chloe wanted to 'bang on the glass like she did at her brother's hockey games'.
They even provided to news outlets photos of Chloe leaning her hands against the glass at one of her brothers' games.
That poor brother has to be writhing with guilt that his games and Chloes' death are now tied together in msm via Winkleman and the parent's lawsuit.
Why keep on pushing him to play hockey ? Weird doesn't begin to describe these people.
SA said that Chloe 'asked to be lifted up to the window to bang on the glass'.
So in hindsight the blame is on Chloe.

And yes you're correct, RCCL paid for their return trip home.
But that's not nearly enough, RCCL !! *sarcasm intended*

Where did you hear they are pushing him to play hockey?

 

[LietKynes]

Has anyone added up all the *** and FB fundraisers for a total they received? in addition to RCCL paying for their transportation home etc? Just curious.

Ita.
It takes very little effort to see online what they are asking for in regards to their finances ; regarding the excellent post # 95.
The results are mystifying and the request for funds beggar belief.
Hypothetically speaking, these are not the actions of destitute people.
Why connect Chloe to banging on hockey glass at all ?
Not to mention they've already met some of their goals ; so people are supportive of them despite their actions.
It's a strange world.
Part of this cannot be solely laid at Winkleman's feet nor the attorney for SA.

 

[loveandhugs]

I have to agree with you. JMOO, but I don't feel like I am seeing the actions of a mother who truly loved her daughter. The way I see it, she chose her step-father over her daughter. It would be one thing if this were her actual father and she'd always been "daddy's little girl." But he's not. So my questions are these: How old was KW when he moved in with her mother? Was she still living at home? If not, why would she ever stand by the man who so carelessly dropped her child 11 stories out a window? If he did move in when she was younger, is it possible that her feelings for him are complicated due to something even more sinister? Please note: I am not saying anything happened. I am saying these, and many more, are questions that I have. Why? Because I simply cannot fathom the way these two people have behaved since they boarded that ship.

Watching the press conference where they announced the lawsuit, AW looked like he was struggling just to breathe as the tears flowed down his face. KW had that same fake cry (with no tears) that SA did in his CBS interview. Her words and actions all felt very rehearsed; right down to the way she tucked her hair behind her ear.



I could not agree more! How can two supposed "professionals" in fields of law enforcement and prosecution have the nerve to publicly condemn charges being filed against the man who killed their daughter? The nerve and hypocrisy of this is beyond belief![/QUOTE
IMO I do not feel there may have been anything sinister between SA and KW when she was younger, or even now. My feeling is perhaps she has something on SA, (more on the law end) and was able to use that as a threat to get him to " take care" of Chloe. Is Chloe just "money", because it does appear that this family, KW when I say family, seems to always be asking for people to pay their way. Not every mother loves their child, not everyone feels the maternal instinct. Mothers kill their children, we see it in the news more than we want, and so difficult to understand.

In my heart I hope I am wrong, but trying to figure why this little girl is dead, and KW is defending SA, and all the other actions since Chloe's death makes me question why? I do not feel that anyone but KW and SA are responsible. Why is KW defending her stepdad? If my mom or dad caused my child's death, I would not be defending them, probably would never speak to them again, my first thought would not be about getting a lawyer to sue a large corporation. I would have been screaming at my mom or dad on the ship, "what happened, what happened", and I would want them to give me an answer right then. Hey, if KW really believes it is the windows fault, then don't sue for money, sue to make windows safer.

So again, somewhere deep in my heart, I unfortunately have a nagging feeling that SA and KW knew before they got on the ship what was about to happen to Chloe. JMO.

 

[LietKynes]

I have to agree with you. JMOO, but I don't feel like I am seeing the actions of a mother who truly loved her daughter. The way I see it, she chose her step-father over her daughter. It would be one thing if this were her actual father and she'd always been "daddy's little girl." But he's not. So my questions are these: How old was KW when he moved in with her mother? Was she still living at home? If not, why would she ever stand by the man who so carelessly dropped her child 11 stories out a window? If he did move in when she was younger, is it possible that her feelings for him are complicated due to something even more sinister? Please note: I am not saying anything happened. I am saying these, and many more, are questions that I have. Why? Because I simply cannot fathom the way these two people have behaved since they boarded that ship.

Watching the press conference where they announced the lawsuit, AW looked like he was struggling just to breathe as the tears flowed down his face. KW had that same fake cry (with no tears) that SA did in his CBS interview. Her words and actions all felt very rehearsed; right down to the way she tucked her hair behind her ear.



I could not agree more! How can two supposed "professionals" in fields of law enforcement and prosecution have the nerve to publicly condemn charges being filed against the man who killed their daughter? The nerve and hypocrisy of this is beyond belief!

bbm
First bolded: The red lipstick was a nice touch.
Seriously, though --it was as if she was gearing up for the largest and most important court case of her career.
SA was 'innocent' and she's going to make sure he isn't handed a jail sentence.
So in a way it might be her most lucrative case.

Second bolded : Yes, it is beyond belief. Along with the crying that matched SA's 'tears'.
At some point one of the other family members may turn against SA and KSW.
Then watch the fur fly !

Going to be a long, drawn-out case and shows no sign of stopping yet.