IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #10

[bessie]

Until this evening, I have always imagined the LS left JR's to go home to Smallwood (south on College). Now, I can easily imagine that she crossed College at 11th and headed east to JW's. (She could have rounded the corner per JR and jaywalked. I think this is very common during low traffic times.) If JW and LS fought earlier, she could have been drunk, tired, without a phone, and wanting to see JW. Heading east immediately would likely avoid cameras (http://www.bloomingtonsecuritycameras.com/map.html). It has seemed improbable to me that LS could be abducted between the 11th corner and the next camera on College or Wafflehouse. Possible, but extremely unlucky. For me, this tight temporal and geographical space on College is why it has been so difficult to believe JR’s 4:30AM statement.

I have read a few posts over the last few weeks suggesting LS wondered into a random house. I never put much credence in this because I did not realize that there could have been a reason to head into a more residential area. The university owns many houses in this area for either academic use or rental to grad students/faculty/staff. Almost all of the other houses between Walnut/Woodlawn and 7th/10th are rentals too. A friend used to live in this area and told me that they used to leave their door unlocked, but too many drunk people wondered in. The last straw was a random drunk guy using the first floor bathroom (He thought he was in his buddy’s house). Also, Bloomington is a ghost town in the summer compared to the semester.

Of course, it is still possible that something bad happened at the apartment and one (or more people) moved her. It is also possible that she was randomly abducted, but I now think this did not happen on College. If she was abducted, I think it was east of College.

:thumb:Nice first post, Bluehippo. Welcome to Websleuths.

:welcome5:

 

[Blythe]

Neither do I that's my point.I am sure Lauren's parents would like to see her too.I am sure most parents would understand if their son would stay to help out his girlfriend's parents who are distraught.The age of 22 is not a baby,there are some 22 year old's that are married and taking care of a family.They are young ,but responsible for themselves as far as the law is concerned.

While it is no indication of guilt, it is a indication of his relationship with his gf's parents.

 

[mamamia54]

While it is no indication of guilt, it is a indication of his relationship with his gf's parents.

Bingo!!

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Welcome bluehippo22

 

[SeaEclipse]

There are numerous blogs/comments on articles/forums online suggesting that JW's facebook (which was public when this all started, but made private subsequently) indicates that he and LS had (temporarily?) split up (or, at the very least, had some sort of argument) a few days before she went missing and that JW was sad about it (see, e.g., legal publication's 6-23 update re: JW's facebook posts and Video Guy's comment at: http://legalpublication.blogspot.com/2011/06/lauren-spierer-disappearance-puzzles.html?commentPage=2). This is obviously JUST A RUMOR.

However, if true, it would help explain: (1) why LS was not with JW that night even though she apparently ended up watching (on DVR? highlights?) the same bball game he was watching; (2) why LS may have thought she was not doing anything wrong by hanging out with CR; (3) why JW's friends might have been very protective of JW and automatically assumed the worst when they saw LS and CR together; and (4) even possibly why LS might have been doing out-of-character substances (or amounts thereof).

Obviously, if true, this would in some sense give JW a motive (although I've already explained why I really don't think he's involved), but it also makes it less likely that LS would trek across town to his house at 4:30 in the morning. (Although I am curious how far east of College JW lived... was it actually walkable for LS?)

 

[phantomthought]

Ah, but where you see "concerned and caring" I see "jealous and controlling". Differing POV.

Actually the fact that the parents (and the police) were notified so soon has always seemed odd to me.

Think about it, at that point in time (2-3 pm June 3rd) LS had been missing for less than 24 hours. Her roommate last saw her at 12:30 am that same day.

Putting myself back in my 20-year old shoes, I have to ask myself "Who does that?"

I would agree that someone leaving their phone in a bar and not being in their room at 2p.m. does not a missing person make.That is another reason I believe her going with CR and leaving JR at 4:30 became known very quickly.Probably before going to the police.Also it has been reported a witness saw CR,MB that afternoon at a CVS and they already knew she was missing.So someone called them asking where LS was sometime before.So I think their story of a girl walking home two blocks, alone at 4:30 in the morning and not making it is what quickly turned this into a missing person case.

 

[bessie]

Do we know whether or not JW is in contact with Lauren's parents? He can keep a low profile and still actively support her parents and the search efforts.

He doesn't have to be in front of a camera to prove anything to me. I'd just like to know that he has fully cooperated with LE.

 

[jennyb629]

I see no connection between getting a lawyer and grief.

ETA: I am not convinced JW is completely innocent, but I do not think people's reactions to tragedy, because they are not what others think they should be, should be used as indicators of guilt. My own reactions to loss are weird. So someone would see me jumping into funeral preparations (a distraction until I am ready to grieve, after a funeral), laughing during the funeral (I hate grieving publicly and looking for humor is my way of avoiding tears), and then being nasty to other people who are grieving (I hate grieving publicly and get annoyed with people who want to make me). It's just...adding insult to injury, I guess, to judge and find fault with the way someone grieves.

While I totally agree that everyone's reactions to tragedy are different and they should not be used as indicators of guilt just because they are different from our own actions, I do think that grieving and searching for a missing person are a little different. My reactions to loss are similar to yours in that I look for humor and get annoyed with people expecting me to grieve publicly. Still, I don't think that experiencing losing a loved one (I mean knowing for certain they are gone forever, so definite) is the same as having a loved one go missing (in which case it seems more logical that you would be searching frantically for them) I fully admit I cannot understand what it's like to have a loved one go missing, it has never happened to me, but it seems like for that there would be a more universal reaction of wanting to look for the person whereas in a situation where you already know the person has died (which has happened to me multiple times-I mean I have lost a number of people who were close to me so I understand what this is like), there is more room for variation in reactions. Just my personal opinion, I certainly am open to others' interpretations or someone who has actually had a loved one go missing might have a completely different take on the situation. It just seems that having a loved one go missing would initiate a very similar reaction (to find the person at all costs) amongst wide swaths of people, whereas having a loved one die often does not illicit similar reactions from different people.

 

[elmomom]

Further more as we already know NO ONE SAW LAUREN ON HER WALK HOME! NO ONE. Not any drivers, not any employee or patron of the Waffle House ONLY 1 BLOCK from where Jays says she turned the corner.. No one at all, nor any cameras at all EVER SAW LAUREN SPIERER ON HER WALK HOME THAT MORNING..

IMO that says a whole lot!!

No, we know that she wasn't seen on any cameras later than 2:51. We don't know about witnesses, and even camera evidence is reminaing to reviewed according to LE. So maybe she never even went to 5 North! After all, we never SAW IT ON CAMERA.

BTW, we already know that the cameras in the covered walkway do not show people on the outer sidewalk. Where she would likely be, if not across the street, or even up in the neighborhood to the east... But thanks! for posting the photos to remind me of that.

You have a theory of what happened, and although it is reasonable, it cannot be proven unfortunately. Other theories are still viable, like it or not.

 

[mamamia54]

I've participated in many missing person cases online, and it seems that this one is not really much different, girl is in a crisis mode from possible intoxication, she leaves friends, either on good terms or bad, and someone quickly takes advantage of the crisis mode, many times found months later in a field or in a ravine somewhere out of town, as in the case of Crystal Grubbs. People really need to pay attention to the missing persons in the areas in which they live and think about their own children. So many missing persons cases don't get the attention that they diserve and to the detriment of those who take the next risky walk in the dark of night.

 

[rlc]

Neither do I that's my point.I am sure Lauren's parents would like to see her too.I am sure most parents would understand if their son would stay to help out his girlfriend's parents who are distraught.The age of 22 is not a baby,there are some 22 year old's that are married and taking care of a family.They are young ,but responsible for themselves as far as the law is concerned.

Let me rephrase it. I do not see guilt and getting a lawyer as being mutually exclusive or having any relationship to each other, even a negative one. Many of the people I know who have had to get a lawyer were doing so in a time of grief--to settle an estate or handle a divorce. Getting a lawyer when you need one does not mean you are not grieving.

I don't think the question is whether the parents would understand if the 22-year-old stays. It's a matter of whether it's in the 22-year-old's best interests. LS's parents have each other to drawn strength from and receive comfort from, why should JW stick around to present a particular image if doing so means he is without a support system while there. 22-year-olds are not babies, but they are also still in need of a support system at a time like this. If I ever went missing, I would much, much prefer that my spouse goes to his support system than sticks around to search--leave the searching to the experts, and anyone who wants to help who is not going to be forever traumatized by the finding of my body.

 

[bx2]

IMO even if the two cams are at opposite ends as depicted these pics IMO show that it would still pick up a girl walking this way. Only way it wouldn't is if she were walking in the street.. Sorry don't buy she was walking in the street..

Further more as we already know NO ONE SAW LAUREN ON HER WALK HOME! NO ONE. Not any drivers, not any employee or patron of the Waffle House ONLY 1 BLOCK from where Jays says she turned the corner.. No one at all, nor any cameras at all EVER SAW LAUREN SPIERER ON HER WALK HOME THAT MORNING IMO that says a whole lot!!

I disagree that the cameras located at each end of the 10th and College apartments walkway can pick up a person walking on the sidewalk. I actually called in that these cameras were present as a tip on 6/5 (probably already well known by then) because walking south on College, I had many times walked through this portion instead of the sidewalk since it was lit better.

 

[Ven]

So now it comes out that LS and JW had broken up. It was obvious to anyone paying attention that things were not right with them.

Question is ... why would the girl roommate make it sound like everything was cool with JW and LS, that he loved her so much?
Surely she would have known about them having problems, being the roommate and all?

Why was HT not with Lauren that night? Were they not getting along either?

Why would HT have given JW room keys if LS and JW had broken up?

I think these questions need to be answered, and I wonder what the relationship between HT and JW is.

 

[rlc]

While it is no indication of guilt, it is a indication of his relationship with his gf's parents.

it is at most an indication of his relationship with her parents now, not leading up to this. If it were my daughter who was missing, and her boyfriend's friends who were possibly involved, the only person I would be trusting would be my spouse. We don't know if the relationship with the parents at the time he opted to go home was a reflection of the ongoing relationship or the stress and strain that the situation has put on the relationship. Or if the parents told him to go home. If they had a really good relationship with him and thought of him as a son, they may have encouraged him to go home, thinking it was best for him and maybe even best for them if seeing him grieve caused them additional anguish or distracted them from their search.

ETA: I also have to say that I do not think the reaction to a loved one going missing would be universal. I would want to search as long as I had hope that he/she was alive. But if either logic or gut feeling made me feel it was more likely the person was deceased, I would not want to search. I would not want to take any chance of being the one to find the body and having that image replace the happy memories in my mind.

 

[Ven]

Btw I would consider JR the #1 poi if it weren't for the motive being there for JW and the constant lies from the girl roommate, it's just all too suspicious for me.

 

[Blythe]

Do we know whether or not JW is in contact with Lauren's parents? He can keep a low profile and still actively support her parents and the search efforts.

He doesn't have to be in front of a camera to prove anything to me. I'd just like to know that he has fully cooperated with LE.

Anyone?

 

[phantomthought]

I think what sets this case apart from so many is you have so many reasonable suspects.
CR with his memory loss
JR the last to see her
JW the boyfriend
TA (the abductor) her walking home alone at 4:30 in the morning
spin the wheel and take your pick.

 

[rlc]

So now it comes out that LS and JW had broken up. It was obvious to anyone paying attention that things were not right with them.

Question is ... why would the girl roommate make it sound like everything was cool with JW and LS, that he loved her so much?
Surely she would have known about them having problems, being the roommate and all?

Why was HT not with Lauren that night? Were they not getting along either?

Why would HT have given JW room keys if LS and JW had broken up?

I think these questions need to be answered, and I wonder what the relationship between HT and JW is.

I agree that I would like to hear more about the relationship between HT and JW. I get the feeling HT had a little thing for JW.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Do we know whether or not JW is in contact with Lauren's parents? He can keep a low profile and still actively support her parents and the search efforts.

He doesn't have to be in front of a camera to prove anything to me. I'd just like to know that he has fully cooperated with LE.

Lawyer: Boyfriend has cooperated

A lawyer hired to represent Jesse Wolff, Spierer’s boyfriend of two years, said his client has cooperated with police throughout the investigation.

Bloomington attorney Joe Lozano, a former Monroe County deputy prosecutor, said Wolff called Spierer’s parents to let them know their daughter was missing and also spoke to police about her disappearance before hiring a lawyer.

“He has fully cooperated and done what the police wanted,” Lozano said Monday afternoon. “He has nothing to hide.”

Wolff reportedly has returned home to his family in New York as the search for Spierer continues.

http://newyorkstatemissingpersons.ning.com/forum/topics/lauren-spierer-inny-june?xg_source=activity

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Do we know whether or not JW is in contact with Lauren's parents? He can keep a low profile and still actively support her parents and the search efforts.

He doesn't have to be in front of a camera to prove anything to me. I'd just like to know that he has fully cooperated with LE.

I do not know whether JW is in contact with LS's parents. However, I have read what I believe, possibly erroneously, to be a reliable report that they do not suspect JW in the slightest. Again, this is from a forum and source I don't wish to publicize.

LE has called JW cooperative as of 6/10, after polygraphs were conducted (though not clearly on him) and DNA samples requested from him (but it's unclear that he complied). Is that something less than "fully cooperative"? Perhaps. That term was used three days earlier to describe persons who saw LS from the afternoon of 6/2 on, and would include JW only if he saw LS that afternoon or early evening.

The (unconfirmed) reports of a fight or breakup between JW and LS are certainly interesting, but do not (necessarily) seem consistent with HT's public remarks that JW (told her that he) intended to join LS later that evening and that she had no doubt that LS was not "involved" that night with someone other than JW.