IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #11

[bloom]

I took a picture of the view up 11th to College at night a couple threads back. Although I didn't know it at the time, I was standing directly in front of JR's apartment door. Also, to address the possibility of him looking out the window: the windows do not project over the sidewalk (they are flush with the front of the building), so you would not have enough of an angle to view up the sidewalk, past the neighboring retaining wall and structures (and a rather full tree with some low branches) in that dark half block between the east end of 5 North and the corner of 11th and College. You would have to stand out on the sidewalk to see that far up the street.

Bloom, my partner and I had a similar experience when we went over there the other evening. Someone was sitting in that lot behind 5 North with their headlights on watching us.

I wonder why they think they are any less suspicious than us, just because they are inside cars? Pedestrian does not equal criminal. It equals person who likes to use their own limbs for ambulation. When I saw the car, I thought *they* were the suspicious ones!

 

[porchpile]

If LE says they aren't any closer to figuring this out than 3 weeks ago, I tend to believe them. They might not have any cards.

Can anyone think of a strategic reason why LE might say 'we're no better off than 3 weeks ago' even if they actually had a good handle on the case?

 

[jjenny]

Can anyone think of a strategic reason why LE might say 'we're no better off than 3 weeks ago' even if they actually had a good handle on the case?

Not me. Seem like if they actually suspected someone they would want to put pressure on the suspect, not the other way around.

 

[bessie]

Bessie -should I remove my post? I realized afterwards I didn't even need it to get people to consider an alternative...

That would be a good idea. I would, but I'd rather you do it yourself. And thank you for asking. eace:

You're so right. It wasn't needed at all. A rumor is often nothing more than a fresh idea, anyway. So when you hear a rumor, unless it's scurrilous or inflammatory, you can always post it by saying, "Suppose...".

 

[cluciano63]

If LE says they aren't any closer to figuring this out than 3 weeks ago, I tend to believe them. They might not have any cards.

Yeah, this is almost brutally honest...not something we often hear from LE. I don't have a good feeling at all about the success of this case, not to mention poor Lauren.

 

[Gabby66]

I keep waffling back and forth b/w JR and JW. I just now thought of something that makes me feel JW may be innocent (tomorrow I'll change my mind LOL)...

Some here have stated that JW began texting LS around noon (or sooner). Some have also felt that he wasn't involved in the big drug crowd and I would have to agree since it doesn't appear that he liked that group of guys. So.....let's assume he wasn't up doing coke to keep him hyped. JR says that Lauren left his house around 4:15. We believe that she arrived there sometime around 3:30 maybe. Unless this is a huge conspiracy by many (which I don't believe b/c it would start to get "sloppy"), then a possible death probably happened after 3:30. If it happened at CR's place, why would JR admit that she went to his house? So.....if a death happened after 3:30, how long would you suspect these guys would have been up and awake? I kinda doubt that IF JW was involved, it happened at JR's place. Since LS didn't have a phone, he wouldn't really be able to track her down. I think if he was involved, it likely happened at his place, so that means after 4:30. Now, let's say she ODs there (or something worse), as early as 5:00. He has to now spend some time to panic. Lord, that could take an hour. Finally, he has a plan and drives out into the country. I would guess he wouldn't be back to his place until at least 6:00 or even later. And does he even have a car? If not, he has to take more time to find someone to help. OK, so he returns and MAYBE gets to bed at 6:30 AM (probably later). Would he really be up by noon or earlier? Yes, I understand that he could have set an alarm to be a part of the plan b/c now he has to act like the concerned bf or ex bf, trying to find her. But I think he'd be VERy groggy and unable to appear rational at the LE (OK here I go waffling again - there were reports that 2 girls filed the report and maybe that's why - maybe he WAS very groggy and didn't want to face the police looking so tired). Dang, I don't know. But I'd love to know which of the boys seemed alert and which ones were more tired than others. How soon did LE speak with them?

 

[elmomom]

Can anyone think of a strategic reason why LE might say 'we're no better off than 3 weeks ago' even if they actually had a good handle on the case?

well, in some cases it pays to have your suspect believe that you aren't scrutinizing him. Like in the case of someone returning to a body and LE watching them. If they thought they were being watched... they wouldn't lead LE to it.

 

[akh]

Can anyone think of a strategic reason why LE might say 'we're no better off than 3 weeks ago' even if they actually had a good handle on the case?

Because the case isn't solved yet they could want to see what happens if any of the POI relax. Possibly that could lead them to better evidence. I'm sure they'd prefer to have a body or at least crime scene before bringing charges, even if they have a fairly good idea what happened and are building circumstantial evidence pointing to a solid theory of the crime.

Another view could be, once again because the case isn't solved yet and because better evidence might still be out there waiting to be found or brought to their attention, by stating they were getting closer it might cause people to decide not to get involved. Let's say one of LS' friends was on the fence with a piece of info that might be key but a little worried about coming forward with it. If that person heard the police were making progress then they might think the police dept doesn't need their info now.

 

[Janeumayer]

The 4:15 Call

If it was LS who placed the 4:15 call to DR, presumably to be let into Smallwood, and he is sleeping, why not call HT? HT hasn't said "she didn't call me, I wish she did." HT, when talking about the 4:15 call, zeroes in on one thing: IT WAS LS, NOT JR.

And HT not only lives in the building, but she's a roommate. HT could have made sure LS not only got in the building, but safely in bed. We haven't heard from AR or BW, both who,along with HT, have spoken to the press. They've been pretty open, so you would think if there are other calls at least one of them would be made public. The fact that we haven't heard about any other calls is probably because there aren't any.

Only one single call, to DR, and when it went unanswered, for some unexplained reason, no further calls are made to others.

Evidence of only one single call has to be contemplated when deciding the veracity of the claim that LS used the phone.

Tony, do you know what is the relationship bet. DR and JR? Are they close friends? How long have they known each other?

 

[jjenny]

Because the case isn't solved yet they could want to see what happens if any of the POI relax. Possibly that could lead them to better evidence. I'm sure they'd prefer to have a body or at least crime scene before bringing charges, even if they have a fairly good idea what happened and are building circumstantial evidence pointing to a solid theory of the crime.

Another view could be, once again because the case isn't solved yet and because better evidence might still be out there waiting to be found or brought to their attention, by stating they were getting closer it might cause people to decide not to get involved. Let's say one of LS' friends was on the fence with a piece of info that might be key but a little worried about coming forward with it. If that person heard the police were making progress then they might think the police dept doesn't need their info now.

What case could they possibly bring if they don't find a body? For them to say they haven't ruled out any POIs suggests they don't know what had happened at all. Otherwise they would be zeroing onto a suspect.

 

[jjenny]

Yeah, this is almost brutally honest...not something we often hear from LE. I don't have a good feeling at all about the success of this case, not to mention poor Lauren.

Neither do I. Unless they either get a lead or a lucky break and find the body (assuming of course she is dead).

 

[bessie]

Tony, do you know what is the relationship bet. DR and JR? Are they close friends? How long have they known each other?

That's a good question, Jane, and it goes back to the phone call. I don't know the extent of their relationship, but I have a feeling they are not that close. Otherwise, a call from JR to DR would not be out of the ordinary, and JR would not have been forced to admit LS was at his place to explain the phone call. JMO.

 

[Janeumayer]

Can someone remind me if search dogs were used and if they did follow her scent, where did the trail stop? TIA

 

[cluciano63]

I don't remember hearing anything about search dogs and trails, although I think I remember that dogs were used early on. Anyone?

 

[bessie]

Lt Parker mentioned in one presser that dogs had been used with negative results. Other than that, he didn't give any details that I recall.

 

[blazelet]

I know they used dogs in the Martinsville search which happened this last Sunday evening.

 

[Lovejac]

I absolutely agree with you, and also LE can be less than forthcoming at times in order not to show their cards(so to speak). I'm in no way criticizing anyone else's thoughts or how they arrive at them, and I apologize if that is how it was taken-merely saying how I personally develop theories. Peace :innocent:

No, jabberwocky! I didn't feel you were criticizing me at all :blowkiss:

Before I joined WS, (Caylee Anthony brought me here, God rest her soul) I always took what MSM stated as fact. Boy, it didn't take me long to figure out that was wrong. :banghead:

It is very frustrating to me, especially when I'm trying to develop my thoughts on cases. :banghead:

 

[Janeumayer]

Any news on Tim Miller and Equusearch?

 

[nickel]

Spent the last four hours catching up on the board's activity on this case. Whew, you all move fast!

I am troubled by what's been speculated about LS perhaps being on her way to JW's (who is not a Smallwood res.) after being at JR's. It's not unusual for college girls to end up at their boyfriends' (or ex-boyfriends', for a bootycall or whatever) after a night of drinking, but were that the case, why would she have called DR 15 minutes before she leaves, who is a resident of Smallwood? To me that sprouts a number of scenarios:

One is that LS was truly on the outs with JW, in which case she wouldn't have been heading out to see him. She is more likely to have been caught on camera because then she'd be heading home. She could have called DR over her roommates if she knew he was likely to be awake at that time over her friends. In school, I try to sleep before four, and many of my roommates would be asleep and/or impossible to wake up through a call. In contrast, there were a few people in my building whom I could rely on to be awake at that time for whatever reason to at least let me inside.

Once inside the building, though, she'd need her key to get inside her actual apartment/room. If she knew she lost her keycard, she'd probably know that she'd lost her key, because she was wearing leggings, and so most likely the keycard was inside the pouch with the "gold key" on it that AA found, assuming that physical key is the method used to gain access into each individual's residence and not the electronic keycard. She'd still have to call her roommates to get inside the room. It's possible she didn't remember their #s and would use DR's phone from there, but JR knew HT well, so she'd at least be on the contacts. Overall, this scenario has a bit of merit, but not much.

Some have speculated that she called to see if DR knew where she'd left her phone. Doubt she'd call him for that, since this article http://www.indystar.com/article/201.../Interviews-Spierer-s-friends-family-continue indicates that DR and LS headed over to JR's after 12:30, and only after this initial meeting to "watch the game" :innocent: did CR come by and convince LS to go to Kilroy's. If LS came back to JR's after depositing CR home, DR may or may not have been there, but regardless, she would have searched JR's apartment for her phone and not found it. The only way DR would have known about the phone being missing is if he followed CR and LS to Kilroy's later but wasn't kicked out. To me, DR having knowledge of her missing phone would indicate he was there at the bar and would mean he's on my suspect's list. This is much less likely than the first reason for her to call DR from JR's phone.

This makes me suspect JR is the one who placed the call to DR instead of LS.

Another less likely scenario is that she wanted to visit JW to have a temporary truce (not a bootycall, since then she'd head over w/o calling DR) due to the altercation between JW's friends and CR and wanted to have a neutral, non-APES-related party to be there with her. JR wouldn't have been privy to LS's plans because he's a frat brother/friend to JW, so she might just say she's heading home to avoid more conflict. For this scenario to be plausible, DR would have to be unaffiliated with JR and the APES, and LS would have to feel uncomfortable enough to want to have a buddy to see her home safely/neutral party to discuss the issues, but not feel so overly threatened as to want to avoid seeing JW altogether. If DR didn't answer, then, she might have just decided to see JW herself, thinking that if she didn't deal with the problem immediately, she would just make things worse. JR would then see LS leave, assuming she's going home, but she'd continue where he couldn't see her, in a direction away from the highly concentrated area of security cameras. This scenario would either mean JW is the perp or could give an unknown assailant a much longer window in which to abduct her.

Thus, I think it's more likely that either LS never made it out of JR's, or somehow she made it just out of JR's view and was abducted just a few yards from her place.

Finally, I'd like to take a few minutes to beg you local posters to be careful while sleuthing! I'm really starting to get nervous with some of your posts indicating that you've been reported/have been stared at by strangers/walking around at night.

 

[EllaMae]

Can anyone think of a strategic reason why LE might say 'we're no better off than 3 weeks ago' even if they actually had a good handle on the case?

I can but I don't want to post it on a public forum....