IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32

[AbbeyR]

As I recall, JW's roommate, AWG, said on PT that JW drove him to class in the morning. Nothing seemed strange to AWG at the time.

I believe he later revised the time and said that 'morning' was really around noon. Later in the afternoon, around 4 pm, JW called him worried about Lauren.

I didn't go back to look it up on PT, but you and I both quote these times in previous posts. Here's yours: [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8800836&postcount=1128"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28[/ame]

 

[AbbeyR]

Snipped by me. Could it be that she was sharing JR's story, as you note, but also just has a dramatic way of speaking? While looking for some old info about JW, I found this:

"Her boyfriend loves her more than anyone in this world," Timir said. "Every time I see him I just want to cry."

The way she phrased this makes me wonder ... maybe she blow things out of proportion in general? In the above quote, it's like she's JW's spokesperson, too. Maybe she overdramatizes in general?

It's also worth remembering when it comes to all of the quotes that we analyze here that they are often in response to questions that are edited out. I can imagine, for ex., a provocative question about JW's potential involvement in Lauren's disappearance prompting this kind of reply.

Or, as you point out here, maybe she's just a little dramatic I find it weird in a way that HT jumped in to speak for the POI, but I also think that most people's instincts would probably be to believe and defend their friends -- At least, initially. I find it harder to explain when she started adding in what sounded like snippets of a legal defense.

 

[imkeylime]

It's also worth remembering when it comes to all of the quotes that we analyze here that they are often in response to questions that are edited out. I can imagine, for ex., a provocative question about JW's potential involvement in Lauren's disappearance prompting this kind of reply.

Or, as you point out here, maybe she's just a little dramatic I find it weird in a way that HT jumped in to speak for the POI, but I also think that most people's instincts would probably be to believe and defend their friends -- At least, initially. I find it harder to explain when she started adding in what sounded like snippets of a legal defense.

I'm not pointing fingers at HT, but I do wonder about something. Wasn't there an article that mentioned coke allegedly being found in HT and LS' apartment? If so, maybe she had an interest of some sort to protect herself? It just seems so convoluted, as you note ... I guess JR involved himself because he WAS involved, and MB involved JR because he knew LS better, and MB got involved because CR dragged LS home. Why HT involved herself is a little less definitive, as is why JR called DR that morning. I think we need to keep DR in mind, not so much as a POI, perhaps, but as a reminder of how the night started.

 

[kpeacock]

I'm not pointing fingers at HT, but I do wonder about something. Wasn't there an article that mentioned coke allegedly being found in HT and LS' apartment? If so, maybe she had an interest of some sort to protect herself? It just seems so convoluted, as you note ... I guess JR involved himself because he WAS involved, and MB involved JR because he knew LS better, and MB got involved because CR dragged LS home. Why HT involved herself is a little less definitive, as is why JR called DR that morning. I think we need to keep DR in mind, not so much as a POI, perhaps, but as a reminder of how the night started.

Yes, I agree that HT might have had her own interests (partying/drug use) at heart. It also makes sense to me that the reason LS and CR stopped by her apartment was to pick up more drugs to continue the night.

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[Ixchel13]

I'm not pointing fingers at HT, but I do wonder about something. Wasn't there an article that mentioned coke allegedly being found in HT and LS' apartment? If so, maybe she had an interest of some sort to protect herself? It just seems so convoluted, as you note ... I guess JR involved himself because he WAS involved, and MB involved JR because he knew LS better, and MB got involved because CR dragged LS home. Why HT involved herself is a little less definitive, as is why JR called DR that morning. I think we need to keep DR in mind, not so much as a POI, perhaps, but as a reminder of how the night started.

definitely

 

[Ixchel13]

Yes, I agree that HT might have had her own interests (partying/drug use) at heart. It also makes sense to me that the reason LS and CR stopped by her apartment was to pick up more drugs to continue the night.

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well, you could look at it that way. But no one has ever said they were "dropping by." Lauren was home and she very well may have wanted to stay home, with or without CR. They were seen by the people partying at DRs apt. and attacked.

These are the same people Lauren had been partying with earlier with HT
and the last guy supposedly called by Lauren/JR . Lauren had been with DR
all evening, but when she got back home, someone who was at his apt. ZO,
attacked Laurens companion. Maybe people were coming and going, and when she got back to Smallwood, a different crowd was at DRs. What if ZO and his trashy entourage were waiting for Lauren to get back with CR ? With HT's and ZC's blessing as a favor to JW, or maybe just a homage to JW?
I guess things really could go too far, HT could have been making a guilty
slip of the tongue with that statement. JMO speculative as well.

 

[kpeacock]

I've never gotten the impression that HT and LS were great friends, aside from running in the same circles and being roommates. Their relationship could have had issues, too - maybe they got on each other's nerves? All the groups of girls I've ever known to live together have some kind of drama. I sometimes wonder if HT's comment about "going too far this time" wasn't a catty little dig at LS. For what, exactly? Who knows.

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[holly18]

I'm not pointing fingers at HT, but I do wonder about something. Wasn't there an article that mentioned coke allegedly being found in HT and LS' apartment? If so, maybe she had an interest of some sort to protect herself? It just seems so convoluted, as you note ... I guess JR involved himself because he WAS involved, and MB involved JR because he knew LS better, and MB got involved because CR dragged LS home. Why HT involved herself is a little less definitive, as is why JR called DR that morning. I think we need to keep DR in mind, not so much as a POI, perhaps, but as a reminder of how the night started.

I agree with this. HT was/is either really really loyal to JR for no apparent reason, or she has something she has a vested interest in keeping hidden, IMO

 

[holly18]

I've never gotten the impression that HT and LS were great friends, aside from running in the same circles and being roommates. Their relationship could have had issues, too - maybe they got on each other's nerves? All the groups of girls I've ever known to live together have some kind of drama. I sometimes wonder if HT's comment about "going too far this time" wasn't a catty little dig at LS. For what, exactly? Who knows.

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I think this is very plausible, but at the same time, I think there has to be something else at play. A "catty little dig" is one thing among roommates/friends, its another when one friend is missing. Catty is the perfect way to describe HT's comment (IMO), but I'm inclined to think theres more to it. Was she catty because she knew what had happened to Lauren and resented the fact that she could ruin their good time? Or because she was worried that something (a drug issue she had, JR dealing/buying, etc) could potentially be found out because of what happened to Lauren? I just graduated from college and there was plenty of catty behavior going on, but I honestly think that if something had happened to one of us the cattiness would have been suspended. It still seems odd to me that HT chose to be catty/blame lauren when something this big and important was going on

 

[AbbeyR]

These are the same people Lauren had been partying with earlier with HT
and the last guy supposedly called by Lauren/JR . Lauren had been with DR
all evening, but when she got back home, someone who was at his apt. ZO,
attacked Laurens companion. Maybe people were coming and going, and when she got back to Smallwood, a different crowd was at DRs. What if ZO and his trashy entourage were waiting for Lauren to get back with CR ? With HT's and ZC's blessing as a favor to JW, or maybe just a homage to JW?
I guess things really could go too far, HT could have been making a guilty
slip of the tongue with that statement. JMO speculative as well.

What is the source of info for ZO being at DR's? Didn't the altercation happen outside the elevator? Since there were witnesses and cameras all over Smallwood, people actually know who was there and what happened. It has also been described in detail by the Spierers' private investigators.

... but lol @ the idea of HT and ZC giving their 'blessing' to ZO to punch CR as some kind of gangster-frat-boy conspiracy and 'homage' to JW

 

[imkeylime]

I think this is very plausible, but at the same time, I think there has to be something else at play. A "catty little dig" is one thing among roommates/friends, its another when one friend is missing. Catty is the perfect way to describe HT's comment (IMO), but I'm inclined to think theres more to it. Was she catty because she knew what had happened to Lauren and resented the fact that she could ruin their good time? Or because she was worried that something (a drug issue she had, JR dealing/buying, etc) could potentially be found out because of what happened to Lauren? I just graduated from college and there was plenty of catty behavior going on, but I honestly think that if something had happened to one of us the cattiness would have been suspended. It still seems odd to me that HT chose to be catty/blame lauren when something this big and important was going on

Agreed. While my experience is with a slightly younger age group, I do see a lot of judgmental cattiness IRL as well. But I agree that under life and death circumstances, one would expect that a roommate/friend would rise above it. It appears to me that HT chose to align herself with JR whatever reason. IDK ... maybe purchased from JR or someone associated with him? OTOH, I also think she was in JW's corner (but not in CR's).

 

[Ixchel13]

What is the source of info for ZO being at DR's? Didn't the altercation happen outside the elevator? Since there were witnesses and cameras all over Smallwood, people actually know who was there and what happened. It has also been described in detail by the Spierers' private investigators.

... but lol @ the idea of HT and ZC giving their 'blessing' to ZO to punch CR as some kind of gangster-frat-boy conspiracy and 'homage' to JW

DR lives down the hall from HT. HT and Lauren were down there watching the game before Lauren and DR left to go to JR's. DR went up there with her but immediately went home as they have him returning right away on camera. Seriously, does it take too much of a deduction that DR was hosting a party at his apt, went up with Lauren to possibly get something from JR and then return to his party? This altercation did not materialize out of thin air. ZO was banned from Smallwood, he was not just roaming the halls. He was somewhere, and IMO, he was in DR's apt. DR has cooperated, and maybe that's because he played a bigger role in the altercation...like, coming back from JRs and telling people, "hey, Lauren's up there flirting with/meeting with CR." IMO, he was one of the people who told LE that he had been involved with drugs that night in return for immunity. Being that DR was there at the beginning of the evening, was with Lauren in the middle of the evening, and was the last person she called, except for the unknown guy, I would say that speculating the party was at his apt is not too far out, lol. Have we considered that his apt. was near the elevator?

It's not lol that these kids act like gansta wannabes. Apparently you don't spend much time around them because that's exactly how they act. The Spiers or the PIs have not described exactly where the altercation happened. They said Lauren was seen in and near the elevator. Precisely because of these (highly ineffective) cameras, these kids are not just hanging out in the halls. They were at someone's apt and IMO, it was DRs. If someone says they know exactly what happened and they weren't at DRs, they would be incorrect because LE hasn't said.

 

[AbbeyR]

Just wanted to confirm that you were imagining this scenario, not stating a fact that we had missed somewhere. Thanks!

DR is not the only person in this group of friends who lived on the 5th floor.

 

[AbbeyR]

It doesn't sound like they were coming from DR's...

[CR and LS] were in her fifth-floor hallway when they were confronted by four male students who got off the elevator and saw that Spierer appeared unsteady.

“Are you OK?” one of the guys recalled asking her.

“She’s OK, I got it,” Rossman is said to have replied.

“Hey dude, you’d better take her to her room,” the guy shot back.

Rossman started cursing, and Zach Oakes, the burliest of the bunch, punched him in the chin, knocking him to the tile floor.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use

In the video, the PI's describe this happening in "the alcove of the elevators"

 

[Ixchel13]

Just wanted to confirm that you were imagining this scenario, not stating a fact that we had missed somewhere. Thanks!

DR is not the only person in this group of friends who lived on the 5th floor.

really? do tell whom else

 

[Ixchel13]

It doesn't sound like they were coming from DR's...


http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use

In the video, the PI's describe this happening in "the alcove of the elevators"

LoHud has many of their facts wrong. and just some bad reporting. Your example, for example. "four students got off the elevator." How did they know for a fact it was 4 students?LE confiscated that video as evidence right away, after breaking down the doors of the office at Smallwood and taking it. sometimes it sounds like reporters and PIs are describing what they've heard is on the videos vs. what they've actually seen..LE has not briefed LoHud or told them it was 4 students. For example, not all of ZO's roommates were students.

JMO, IMO, and the word "speculative" are the descriptive words I used in my posts. Does that sound like I'm stating it as fact? Sorry if that got away from you. Again, ZO was banned from Smallwood, doubtful if he was carousing the halls.

I think what makes this board interesting is the different opinions based on the small amount of confirmed evidence. And also, a lot of what should have been on camera isn't much of a help. We may have to accept that the worse happened off camera, and that other cameras were dysfunctional, and then what is on camera may not be that clear.

DR cooperated...we think it's because he has a good heart, a shred of decency, etc, but then again, the first person to cooperate also usually gets the sweetest deal. And, IMO, JMO, MOO, I think he had mucho to tell. To me, it seems as if he was hosting a party and ran out of....klonopin? just sayin'.

 

[holly18]

DR lives down the hall from HT. HT and Lauren were down there watching the game before Lauren and DR left to go to JR's. DR went up there with her but immediately went home as they have him returning right away on camera. Seriously, does it take too much of a deduction that DR was hosting a party at his apt, went up with Lauren to possibly get something from JR and then return to his party? This altercation did not materialize out of thin air. ZO was banned from Smallwood, he was not just roaming the halls. He was somewhere, and IMO, he was in DR's apt. DR has cooperated, and maybe that's because he played a bigger role in the altercation...like, coming back from JRs and telling people, "hey, Lauren's up there flirting with/meeting with CR." IMO, he was one of the people who told LE that he had been involved with drugs that night in return for immunity. Being that DR was there at the beginning of the evening, was with Lauren in the middle of the evening, and was the last person she called, except for the unknown guy, I would say that speculating the party was at his apt is not too far out, lol. Have we considered that his apt. was near the elevator?

It's not lol that these kids act like gansta wannabes. Apparently you don't spend much time around them because that's exactly how they act. The Spiers or the PIs have not described exactly where the altercation happened. They said Lauren was seen in and near the elevator. Precisely because of these (highly ineffective) cameras, these kids are not just hanging out in the halls. They were at someone's apt and IMO, it was DRs. If someone says they know exactly what happened and they weren't at DRs, they would be incorrect because LE hasn't said.

Bolded by me, I hope thats ok. Do we know that he spoke to LE about drugs? I know he's the main person who has cooperated with LE and the Spierers, but I thought that the information about drugs came from JR saying what he believed DR and Lauren had taken earlier that evening? I could be wrong, its hard to keep what we know from statements/the spierers/ private investigators/speculation straight.

Also did DR really get immunity from LE? If they're offering immunity for at least some potential drug charges (ie taking them but not selling) maybe that will get one or two people to come forward

 

[holly18]

LoHud has many of their facts wrong. and just some bad reporting. Your example, for example. "four students got off the elevator." How did they know for a fact it was 4 students?LE confiscated that video as evidence right away, after breaking down the doors of the office at Smallwood and taking it. sometimes it sounds like reporters and PIs are describing what they've heard is on the videos vs. what they've actually seen..LE has not briefed LoHud or told them it was 4 students. For example, not all of ZO's roommates were students.

JMO, IMO, and the word "speculative" are the descriptive words I used in my posts. Does that sound like I'm stating it as fact? Sorry if that got away from you. Again, ZO was banned from Smallwood, doubtful if he was carousing the halls.

I think what makes this board interesting is the different opinions based on the small amount of confirmed evidence. And also, a lot of what should have been on camera isn't much of a help. We may have to accept that the worse happened off camera, and that other cameras were dysfunctional, and then what is on camera may not be that clear.

DR cooperated...we think it's because he has a good heart, a shred of decency, etc, but then again, the first person to cooperate also usually gets the sweetest deal. And, IMO, JMO, MOO, I think he had mucho to tell. To me, it seems as if he was hosting a party and ran out of....klonopin? just sayin'.

For what its worth, its been my impression that he was the closest to lauren out of mb/jr/cr/ht, he could be one of the only people whose loyalty is firmly to lauren and not the others involved/suspected

 

[AbbeyR]

Source: http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use



Source: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/1...ibes-terrible-strain-as-two-year-anniversary/

I'm not sure what to make of that: reporting error, JR outright lying because he didn't want to be the guy that sent her home without a key or for other reasons and didn't know she had dropped them?

Or he knew the ID had been found, but not when?... I don't know what to make of it either. I feel like there must have been a reason for JR to specifically mention seeing Lauren's ID (and for it to be mentioned by the PIs), but these reports, along with the articles about Kilroy's being fined based on the ID and then the other (more sketchy) rumor that the ID was found elsewhere make it even more confusing. I really wish we knew when/ where her fake ID was found - this is one of those nagging questions that seems like it could be important.

What are the 'nagging questions' that you guys have about the info that has been reported?

A few that seem like they would be easy to clarify to me that would help piece a few things together are: The fake ID, the time that CR asked a neighbor if he'd "seen a little blonde girl", and Tony Gatto's involvement/ sources.

 

[imkeylime]

Bolded by me, I hope thats ok. Do we know that he spoke to LE about drugs? I know he's the main person who has cooperated with LE and the Spierers, but I thought that the information about drugs came from JR saying what he believed DR and Lauren had taken earlier that evening? I could be wrong, its hard to keep what we know from statements/the spierers/ private investigators/speculation straight.

Also did DR really get immunity from LE? If they're offering immunity for at least some potential drug charges (ie taking them but not selling) maybe that will get one or two people to come forward

I don't recall hearing that DR spoke to LE about drugs, but I do remember reading an article (maybe the Indiana Monthly one) where JR said that either DR or LS told him they'd snorted Klonopin that night. I remember the discussion here re: snorting vs. orally ingesting. Whether DR confessed to as much hasn't been made public as far as I know.

I do think that going more public, i.e., taking a LE-administered poly and searching for LS, may have given him a lower profile. But it's also true that he wasn't with her while at Kilroy's, which changes his involvement, IMO.

What's interests me is why JR called DR that morning. It's one of the things that makes me wonder if LS may have been ODing or having a long QT attack that was mistaken for ODing. That makes sense to me if DR or LS did indeed tell JR they'd snorted Klonopin. JMO.