cluciano63
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CR even taking a polygraph does not make much sense, based on his alleged memory loss; how could it be interpreted properly?
I agree that we should take with a grain of salt the public statements of not just HT but anyone involved in the case (though I also honestly find some of the distrust of both HT and JW to be, not anti-semitic necessarily, but distrustful of someone who looks different if you don't know a lot of jews). <snip>
So much is being made of her lost shoes, lost phone, lost keys and wallet.
To me, that doesn't mean much other than that she was intoxicated in some way at some point during the night. As a former college party kid (20 years ago), it was not uncommon for us to kick off our shoes to dance at a bar, then get kicked out by management and end up leaving shoes behind. Once you are kicked out, they don't let you back in for your shoes, cell phone, etc. Same applies if there was a line waiting to get in. Once you are out, you're out. That could explain the shoes and phone.
Keys and wallet -- again, not uncommon to lose. Especially if they are clipped together. Stick them in your back pocket, set them down to do something, poof they are dropped or left behind. And if someone saw your stuff, they would put it on a rail or something assuming you would backtrack and come find them later that night or the next morning.
Going back to her apt complex with CR then leaving without picking up new shoes. Again, not uncommon to do goofy things that seem to make no sense to sober adults after the fact.
Even her supposedly walking away from JR alone at 4:30 am. Not uncommon. Campus feels like home to college kids. They feel safe and invincible. Even going home without keys to get in...not surprising. Not sure of her building set-up, but when I lived in a secure building, all I had to do was get in the front door. Once I was buzzed in, no worries. Had a roommate who lost her keys so often that we used to leave the apt door unlocked at night because we felt safe being in a secure bldg. Not smart but didn't think anything of it at the time.
Her night does not seem all that extreme to me, except for the awful part where she doesn't come home. I still feel like something happened between 3ish and 4:30 but the lost/dropped items may not mean anything at all except that she was partying earlier in the evening.:twocents:
Re: Phone call -- I have a new theory. One that I have no support for, but that I actually think is the most intuitively appealing. What if JR called DR because LS was passed out in his apartment and he wanted help carrying her home? DR is a natural for him to call b/c he lives in Smallwood and would therefore have keys for access. All the reasons he might not call DR for help disposing of a body don't apply if he's actually just trying to get LS home safely at that point. Also, HT would be a less natural person to call under those circumstances for multiple reasons: she's a girl (the natural instinct of a 20-something boy isn't going to be to call a girl to help him carry a body at 4 am) and she's good friends with JW (JR is probably hoping that the story doesn't get back to JW, especially if he did take advantage of LS and especially if LS has told him about the earlier altercation). Basically, LS would call HT for keys, but JR would be likely to call DR.
Then DR doesn't pick up... and, at some point thereafter, JR realizes that LS is actually dead (perhaps her heart condition?). He panicks and disposes of the body. HT and/or DR, once LS is missing, ask questions about the call. JR thinks of the best explanation that he can. (Remember that we only know about the explanation for the call through DR's lawyer, not LE, and we have no idea what he did or didn't tell LE). He then returns home and retains expensive counsel. We've seen no indication that he is actuvely cooperating and no media statements from his attorney. Thoughts?
We know that two of these individuals - CR and MB - have cooperated extensively and apparently satisfactorily with police. We know that one - JR - has not. He is also the last to have seen LS. Occam's razor.
It's workable for me, though why not just let her sleep it off? I was already thinking that this could have been a call for some sort of assistance. I also thought that this might be a call to see if the coast was clear back at Smallwood for LS to return (given that things were unpleasant the last time that she was there). I wish I knew who DR lived with.
I am the poster who said that CR is reported to have passed the poly and while I could have sworn that I read that from a mainstream source, I have to concede I cannot now find support for that contention. I can, however, list the following information that I believe makes clear that the person who passed is either CR or MB, and probably CR, but probably not JR, who I don't believe has taken a poly at all:
6/8 Polygraphs taken: http://www.whas11.com/news/Police-P...time-in-case-of-Lauren-Spierer-123466739.html
CR among those taking polygraph (article uses facts that seem to conflate CR and JR, who presumably has left town, but are clearly referring to CR): http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/friend_eyed_in_co_ed_vanish_7blBBnnw997WFm34fNZELO
I agree that this article especially - http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...afe-return-polygraph-tests-bloomington-police - makes it sound like the person taking the polygraph was JR, not CR, but I believe that's incorrect. First of all, it says that the person taking the polygraph was the one to whose place LS went after leaving Smallwood, i.e. CR. Second, at this time, I believe it was still widely perceived that CR, not JR, was the last to see LS, such that CR's attorney had to correct the public record in that regard later that week: http://www.indystar.com/article/201...earch-IU-student-Lauren-Spierer-yields-little. I note that i have found some strange similarities between CR/MB/JR's stories elsewhere - CR/MB told friends (? including JR?) a story that JR seems to have told HT and/or LE).
6/10: CR and MB supply DNA samples per LE request; samples also requested from JR and JW (who, again, i'm advised, is not believed in any way responsible), but no indication JR supplies one (http://www.theindychannel.com/news/28200651/detail.html); MB subsequently reinterviewed (and presumably these interviews are occurring under polygraph): http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...pearance-DNA-taken-from-Rossman-his-roommate; http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...-from-Lauren-Spierer-s-companion-his-roommate
6/15: reported that a "prime person of interest" "among the last" to see LS has passed a polygraph. Again, that probably isn't JR, who i believe left town before 6/8. "Prime" sounds like CR, not MB, who notably was reinterviewed, but both are among the primary tier of interest, not the secondary one, so it could be MB.
In general, I'm not sure I've seen anything at all indicating that JR has spoken directly to LE. I believe that everything we know of his story has come from HT, to whom he evidently spoke on 6/3, and from police who communicated with him through counsel.
Hi, I was also lurking and decided to actually register.
My thoughts: I'm very convinced of an OD. She has long QT syndrome and is probably on a beta blocker, and I really don't think this would be a good mix with coke and alcohol. I believe she'd be much more at risk for an OD than a person without long QT. Seems like the most reasonable explanation to me.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11441329
http://test.pathologyportal.org/site~/100th/speccardh1v.htm
(two links with some details about mixing alcohol, coke, and long QT, unrelated to LS)
I guess I missed this part of this news article. Ruining their life?
"Confronted outside their apartment Sunday, Corey Rossman and Mike Beth denied their identities to Fox59 News, then complained that media coverage of the investigation was ruining their life. Rossman complained that while his vehicle was parked in a public parking that Fox59 News was violating his privacy and Beth threatened to call Bloomington police. Rossman then drove away."
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-surv...spierer-last-spotted-20110612,0,7227876.story