Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #82

[The Farm]

No court Monday and Tuesday this week because a juror has other commitments. No court on Friday ever because...um..they don't work Fridays? lol. :what:

I always thought jurors had to give up commitments to serve?

 

[Kensie]

BBM

Part and parcel why JA deserves the DP even more than your garden variety criminal. She will (imo) view LWOP as a victory of sorts. She will also have enough pull behind bars to fashion herself into some cell block prom queen.

Even though she said "I'd ask/wish for the DP," at some point, (imo) that kind of overblown theatrical response is another bucket of bs. She's center point of the universe in her mind. She doesn't want to die

Giving her the chance to be housed and clothed and fed is showing her mercy. Considering what she did to be locked up in the first place, and the complete lack of mercy she showed TA, prep the needle. It's wholly deserved.

I totally agree with you. I think JA will fit in just fine in the prison environment. She will have tons of weirdos writing her, declaring their love for her, visiting her and sending her money. I have seen things like this happen before. She will be on the inside and will never get out in the real outside world again. She deserves the DP.

 

[Schuby]

Sooooo confused but I never could see her leg in any of the photos.
Is this the one? Because I still can't see it even with glasses.

This one is to demonstrate the positioning of HIS legs in the sitting down shower pic.

 

[Rosemary Pierce]

I saw on JVM last night (I had it on mute) where it said something like "Is it time Arias accepted a plea deal?" How does Arias accept a plea deal when none have been offered? I seriously don't see that happening either :moo:

It's been a nice break from JA and her lies, but I must admit I am ready to see JM back in action!

 

[Schuby]

I always thought jurors had to give up commitments to serve?

I think in this case the court had already scheduled to be off due to attorney commitments which were later cancelled but, between the original scheduling and subsequent cancellation, a juror scheduled something, believing him/herself to have the days free.

 

[Mykeru]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if she does well in general population BUT, I'll say this, she's in for a very rude awakening either way. State prison is a different animal than the county jail system she has been in for the last five years. And, no, I don't think those ladies will be particularly impressed by her notoriety.

Even if she is beaten once a week and made to rinse out all her celly's underwear and eats bologna and Wonder Bread for the rest of her life, there will still be sunrises, and laughs and moments of beauty, if only fleeting.

At least on Death Row she will be confined, isolated, controlled. She will have no one to manipulate, which is her very reason for being. And there she will stay until she dies or until the state, once all the Karla Faye Tucker hand-wringing is done, ends her.

I am not philosophically opposed to the death penalty, however I tend to oppose it on practical grounds of it being often capriciously and unfairly applied...To radically over-simplify, even under a sentence of death, who do you think is going to ride the gurney first (or at all), the poor black guy or the middle-class white woman?

However, where it is on the books, and where it is applied and has been applied to others, the idea that Jodi Arias-- who hounded and finally butchered another person, and posthumously defamed them out of sheer mean-spiritedness -- should get extra consideration due to her relative level of economic class, pigmentation and/or genitalia would be an outrage.

 

[rose222]

BBM

Part and parcel why JA deserves the DP even more than your garden variety criminal. She will (imo) view LWOP as a victory of sorts. She will also have enough pull behind bars to fashion herself into some cell block prom queen.

Even though she said "I'd ask/wish for the DP," at some point, (imo) that kind of overblown theatrical response is another bucket of bs. She's center point of the universe in her mind. She doesn't want to die

Giving her the chance to be housed and clothed and fed is showing her mercy. Considering what she did to be locked up in the first place, and the complete lack of mercy she showed TA, prep the needle. It's wholly deserved.

I want to hear the words 'we the jury fix the penalty at death' Maybe then she will realize that the world hates her.Arias should be alone 23 of 24 hours a day. Arizona death row is no joke! JA deserves a lot worse than death row but that is the worst punishment available for her.

There was some journalist (?) who visited San Quentin Prison and said she found Scott Peterson to be happy and well-adjusted. This woman appeared to have a soft corner for criminals so I take whatever she says with a grain of salt. Scott Peterson may be doing relatively ok but that doesn't mean he's 'happy'. Psychopaths/sociopaths may put on an appearance of being happy but in fact it's hell living on death row!

 

[makayla]

Did anyone else fall a little bit in love with fiery JM during that exchange?

I love JM more by the minute! :blushing:

 

[KMouse]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/11/travis-alexander-arrest-record_n_2856562.html?utm_hp_ref=tw


Travis Alexander, the ex-boyfriend Jodi Arias is charged with murdering, was convicted of 2002 theft and misdemeanor battery charges, according to court documents. However, Alexander's brother says he was the one who actually committed the crime

Wait for the THs on HLN to run with this one.

 

[Schuby]

Even if she is beaten once a week and made to rinse out all her celly's underwear and eats bologna and Wonder Bread for the rest of her life, there will still be sunrises, and laughs and moments of beauty, if only fleeting.

At least on Death Row she will be confined, isolated, controlled. She will have no one to manipulate, which is her very reason for being. And there she will stay until she dies or until the state, once all the Karla Faye Tucker hand-wringing is done, ends her.

I am not philosophically opposed to the death penalty, however I tend to oppose it on practical grounds of it being often capriciously and unfairly applied...To radically over-simplify, even under a sentence of death, who do you think is going to ride the gurney first (or at all), the poor black guy or the middle-class white woman?

However, where it is on the books, and where it is applied and has been applied to others, the idea that Jodi Arias-- who hounded and finally butchered another person, and posthumously defamed them out of sheer mean-spiritedness -- should get extra consideration due to her relative level of economic class, pigmentation and/or genitalia would be an outrage.

Awe c'mon now, there's not a little part of you that wouldn't enjoy seeing Miss Jodi in cornrows and a "Travis Forever" tat?

 

[AZWatcher]

Even if she is beaten once a week and made to rinse out all her celly's underwear and eats bologna and Wonder Bread for the rest of her life, there will still be sunrises, and laughs and moments of beauty, if only fleeting.

At least on Death Row she will be confined, isolated, controlled. She will have no one to manipulate, which is her very reason for being. And there she will stay until she dies or until the state, once all the Karla Faye Tucker hand-wringing is done, ends her.

I am not philosophically opposed to the death penalty, however I tend to oppose it on practical grounds of it being often capriciously and unfairly applied...To radically over-simplify, even under a sentence of death, who do you think is going to ride the gurney first (or at all), the poor black guy or the middle-class white woman?

However, where it is on the books, and where it is applied and has been applied to others, the idea that Jodi Arias-- who hounded and finally butchered another person, and posthumously defamed them out of sheer mean-spiritedness -- should get extra consideration due to her relative level of economic class, pigmentation and/or genitalia would be an outrage.

Well said!

 

[G&AMom]

No court Monday and Tuesday this week because a juror has other commitments. No court on Friday ever because...um..they don't work Fridays? lol. :what:

Actually, I believe court was originally not supposed to meet because of an unspecified "conflict." Later the conflict was resolved, but by then a juror had scheduled something else, thinking they weren't planning on meeting.

A lot of courthouses don't have trials on Fridays. Leaves them time for all the other business: hearing motions and whathaveyou. It's the 4 hour trial day that gets me. I've never heard of any other court doing this. It's not uncommon for courts to meet on Saturdays in order to get trials finished. I don't see how the jurors can live like this. Their lives are on hold for months. I guess there are some jobs where you can work whenever you have time, but my boss would be screaming blood murder (wait . . . ).

I'm wondering if this has something to do with money. Not enough judges for too much work.

 

[Angelina Frost]

Did anyone else fall a little bit in love with fiery JM during that exchange?

I used to work in the music hall at House of Blues- the kind of kinetic energy that the courtroom had when JM took over had the same fever pitch when the artists took the stage.

It was immediate and powerful and complete.

JM is the first prosecutor I've seen who has that transfixing command over a group of people. In his next life, he'll come back as a band frontman.

 

[G&AMom]

That doc reads like blackmail, give her a deal that lets her out soon or everyone she ever met will get hurt.

You said it! Any micro-millimeter of sympathy I had for Jodi was gone at that point, and it was the beginning of the end for Nurmi, as far as I was concerned.

 

[AZWatcher]

Originally Posted by Arishia
→This is something I copied from another person's post to WS.
These are all FROM Travis TO JA
April 2008 (I think - if not, its close)
(illegible) you have that
information. its 15 minutes it
would take to gt the info.
But you won't take 15
minutes. Why because it is
an Fing lie. So either text
me you that you are ready
to tell the truth or give me
your imaginary friend with
the worst BS story you have
ever told or leave me alone.
Its a lie like no other. It is
freaking foolish. There is no
way out of it, you have
screwed up your story so
bad you can't mend it. You
are caught. When will you
realize that. I do not know.
You have til tomorrow. to
have me this persons
information before I tell all
of the hughes' leslie udy,
the freemans, your parents
and anyone else that
matters about all the crazy
things you have done. So
either fess up or feel the
wrath. No matter how bad
the truth is I promise you
the punishment will be
better than the lie. This is
worse than your magical
email that a mysterious man
you've never seen before
wrote for you. You insult me
by thinking ill believe such
crap. nothing else from you
til the truth. I already know
your lying so why continue.
After tomorrow, its gonna
get real bad for you. Time to
spit it out.
-----------------------------
These 3 are all part of one long text,
no replies from JA in between:
05/26/08 at 07:59:15am
I sent you a response to
your dire conversation, that
I hope youread because
you need to read it. Maybe
it will spark human emotion
in you, something that only
seems to exist when it
comes to your own
problems. But everyone
else is just a part of your
sick agenda. By the way,
your pic comment to Danny
Jones makes you look like a
pure *advertiser censored*, even more to
the people who know you.
You should be embarrassed
by it. If he knew what I knew
about you he'd spit in ur
face. Sow ould everyone
else. I have never never in
my life been hurt so bad by
someone. But why do I
even say it because you
don't care. It doesn't serve
your evilness.
05/26/08 at 08:35:02am
You couldn't get off your
lazy butt to to read it could
you. That's the sociopath (I)
know so well. it freakin
figures
05/26/08 at 09:11:11am
I don't want your apology I
want you to understand
what I think of you. I want
you to understand how evil I
think you are. You are the
worst thing that ever
happened to me.
I transcribed the first part of this text:
Thanks for this Lizard Queen!
Do not call me. And do not text me anything. The next thing I want is this michelle K that is friends with Elena(?) that nobody knows but knows details about my life. Not one other thing ever. Until you have that information. Its 15 minutes it would take to get the info. But you won't take 15 minutes....

Sorry for posting this long dealy but I wanted to say thank you to LQ and everyone who put this all together last night. These texts make perfect sense to me now. JA confronted TA with ill-gotten information regarding another woman he was seeing, his outrage was brought on by her psycho-hacking-snooping, and her "cover-up" by way of inventing "Elena" as the informant. His demands for the truth are in reference to how she REALLY got the information. One less thing to obsess over today while I catch up on work. :great:

 

[Schuby]

I used to work in the music hall at House of Blues- the kind of kinetic energy that the courtroom had when JM took over had the same fever pitch when the artists took the stage.

It was immediate and powerful and complete.

JM is the first prosecutor I've seen who has that transfixing command over a group of people. In his next life, he'll come back as a band frontman.

He is so dynamic, it actually comes through the television. Like you, I see a lot of public speaking/performance for my job as well and I can only agree, he's nothing short of commanding.

 

[mimmy03]

Did the jury hear the 911 call where TA's friends mention him being stalked by JA and his tires being slashed?

 

[jane the dood]

'mornin' guyz :seeya:

Finally got around to listening to last Sunday's True Crime radio show, with Tricia, katiecoolady, Dr. Glass and Holly Hughes. As always, it was enjoyable and informative and thought-provoking, but an idea suddenly popped into my head as I was listening to the podcast:

Does anyone else get the impression that Nurmi wants his client to be found guilty? My understanding is that he tried to get himself removed from this case, and couldn't. So maybe he figured, well, it's my job but I don't have to do it well. And, in my humble opinion as a non-lawyer, he is doing a terrible job. But...on purpose? (Then again, look what he has to work with...a sociopath who thinks she's smarter than he is!)

BUT... if JA is found guilty (and how can she not be?) and gets the DP, can Arias use Nurmi's "ineffective counsel" and that perhaps he was prejudiced against her from the get-go, as a weapon in the appeals process?

Thoughts?

 

[Zeno49]

I don't think Jodi's case will be a setback to people with real self defense claims or domestic violence defenses (I hate to say "battered woman" because it does not apply solely to women). Jodi will be unsuccessful with her defense claims, so this is not going to be precedent setting by any stretch.

It's just another case with a defendant who has no adequate defense so they assert an outlandish defense because there's nothing else to do -- maybe if it weren't a death penalty case, she might not be fighting so hard, and she might not have come up with this defense. But when death is on the table, you really can't expect a defendant to just take responsibility and plead guilty, and accept the death penalty without a challenge.

I think we would see a different defense if this were not a death penalty case. Being what it is, however, I think most rational people can see the defense for what it is - a desperate Hail Mary to save the defendant's life. When real domestic violence defendants are in this position, the evidence will be there to support their defense.

As a hypothetical exercise and given the facts of the case as now known what defense strategy would be best for JA – assuming her aim is to 1) minimize jail time and 2) avoid the death penalty?

OPTION 1
One line of thought (and I think this is a good one) is simply to come clean and “fall on your sword”.
In this instance JA would declare she was angry and hurt. There was rage and passion in the killing. Plead for mercy and hope for a 1st degree conviction without death penalty.

OPTION 2
The second line is the above referenced Hail Mary defense. In this instance, JA manufactures a story that explains ALL inculpating circumstances and then claims mitigation based on self-defense. The thinking here is that there is an outside chance of getting a 2nd degree conviction. The worst case scenario is getting a 1st degree conviction. Because so much effort and expense dedicated to this elaborate defense, the death penalty is removed off of the table. The risk of course is that the jury rejects the entire defense “façade” and instead opts to penalize JA with the death penalty.

Now if the considerations adhered to the rules of “game theory” what would a utility maximizing rational agent do?
OPTION 1 Pay Off Results = 80% chance of life imprisonment – no parole. 20% chance of death penalty
OPTION 2 Payoff Results = 20% chance of 2nd degree conviction. 50% chance of life imprisonment. 30% chance of death penalty.
Which option would a rational agent choose?

 

[AZWatcher]

Did the jury hear the 911 call where TA's friends mention him being stalked by JA and his tires being slashed?

Yes, they did.