Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #82

[luvtenniss]

I guess I was thinking that one of the roommates had to have moved that gate. Was Travis' room the only one upstairs?

Sorry to quote myself. Even if the gate was still up, I'm sure Napolean would be trying to get up to that room. I know he was trying, in some way, to get to where he knew Travis was.

 

[thefragile7393]

The state has already weighed those cost when they chose the death penalty. I dont care how many appeals she goes through. One thing is certain if she gets death like she richly deserves she will be locked down in a cell by herself for 23 hours out of 24. And when out will be in the company of a prison guard.

I dont want her to get LWOP. Psychopaths adapt very well in prison and she will soon gather enablers to coddle her every need like she has done while she has been in jail.

imo

that is the ultimate punishment for someone like her. No one to manipulate or really talk to or control or spin stories. Being alone appears to be her worst fear as well....and now she would be alone for the rest of her life on DR. No mixing like with LWOP. For sociopaths who thrive on that....THAT is the only punishment that would hit them.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ammonitida]

ITA, I would only be able to buy this fog story if Jodi was found wandering the streets covered in blood after the murder.

Instead we have her immediately trying to cover her tracks. From the detailed cleaning of the crime scene to the disposal of "his" gun, the tossing of the imaginary rope in a dumpster, and doing something with the knife (what's her story about the knife these days anyway?). Turning on her cell phone at the Nevada border, 250 miles away from Mesa (after having been turned off in SoCal). Immediately making at least one phone to cover up the hole in the cell phone alibi (telling Burns that she got lost in Nevada), then hours later leaving a voice mail message to dead Travis telling him the same thing. These are not the actions of someone in a "fog". These are the actions of someone who premeditated the murder. Her convenient and far-fetched "fogging" alone should be enough to convict her beyond reasonable doubt. Her admitted cover-up attempts after the murder are just icing on the cake. I'm going to :banghead: if there is a hung jury. The evidence is overwhelming that her current story is yet another fabrication. I can't fathom how anyone could buy her "fog" cop out. Like I said, unless this crime had something to do with aliens and some MIB agent wiped her memory away, there's no way in hell that she could have fogged out the clean-up of the crime scene.

 

[Dmacky]

The state has already weighed those cost when they chose the death penalty. I dont care how many appeals she goes through. One thing is certain if she gets death like she richly deserves she will be locked down in a cell by herself for 23 hours out of 24. And when out will be in the company of a prison guard.

I dont want her to get LWOP. Psychopaths adapt very well in prison and she will soon gather enablers to coddle her every need like she has done while she has been in jail.

imo

I feel exactly the same way! She has already acclimated herself very well to being locked up. She's got her a girlfriend, won the American Idol singing contest. Being alone 23 hrs. a day would be devastating to her. Nobody to listen to her bullchit. Maybe even take her pencil away, so she can't sell her drawings on ebay :giggle:

 

[camcneishg]

wonder how big the cold sore is today.....

 

[oceanblueeyes]

She actually isn't that strong. She had to flood the hallway with water just to be able to drag his body down the hallway. Further, most of the stab wounds were quite shallow, indicating a lack of upper body strength. She's very fortunate that the bullet impaired his brain functions because a lucid and fully aware Alexander would have tore her up.

I think at the time she WAS that strong. Plenty of us have used our hubbies to see if we could pull them on a tile floor and were able to do so without huffing and puffing.

Im in pretty good shape and have great upper body strength but decades older than Jodi. Of course I wasnt pumped with adernaline either. My hubby weighs 190 and I weigh 117 and I had no problem dragging him on our tile floor. In fact I pulled him by his wrists and then pulled him by his feet/ankles and still did not have a problem when I pulled him about 20 feet each way.

The stab wounds could have hit bone. She was able to slice his neck open all the way back to his spine with one slice. Jodi is not a weak person by any means.

The evidence supports that the gunshot came last. If shot already he would not have the capability to throw his hands up nor get down the hallway or and yeah still be cussing at her. That part of her story is laughable if it werent so sad and such a lie.

IMO

 

[luvtenniss]

I'm kind of nervous about a party asking for records from Walmart and Tesoro. I figured JM already had those records. Let's hope he checked that out before confronting JA otherwise that'd be a big blunder.

Could it be the defense asking for another check? I can't believe Juan wouldn't have already checked it out. And I wouldn't put it past Nurmi to ask for another check to try to prove Juan wrong.

 

[cartercar]

"Now when you say you were shaking, Miss Arias, how badly were you shaking?"

Whaaa? Did I miss something in civics class? Do we have a constitutional right to be spared all shaking while being cross-examined when we're on trial for murder?

Good to know.

This is ridiculous. I don't understand why the judge is allowing it, and even more, I don't understand why JM isn't saying anything. What does it have to do with anything to know that JM's questioning makes her shake. If anything is more irrelevant than her extensive and glorious sex life filled with consensual sexual encounters, it's that the prosecutor made her uncomfortable.

I've stopped understanding this process. I understand the court's wish to lessen the chances of an appeal. I understand that Nermi is trying to fill the air with irrelevant fluff so maybe the jury will think she's people and let her live. But I think they are taking this beyond anything reasonable.

 

[Allyne Smithe]

Has someone already investigated this? And are they for certain that it is sunscreen?

Yes, it was Neutrogena UltraMist (aerosol) SPF 85 sunblock. It has since been discontinued. Neutrogena has never sold hair color.

The last of the UltraMist offerings (in Banana Boat brand) was discontinued in 2012 due to fire hazard.

Here's the description of the Neutrogena UltraMist SPF 85 sunblock Pink Panther found earlier:

"This spray-on sunscreen provides sufficient UVA protection with stabilized avobenzone, but the base formula is almost 50% alcohol. The alcohol means that it dries quickly, but it also causes irritation and free-radical damage as well as cell death, which all conspire to cause collagen to break down and hurt the skin’s ability to heal. Add to that the sensitizing potential of the high amount of active ingredients needed to achieve SPF 85 (a sunscreen rating that’s overkill because there isn’t that much daylight anywhere in the world) and this is a sunscreen to leave at the store."

http://www.paulaschoice.com/beautype...unblock-SPF-85

 

[borndem]

Welcome, visitors! Please jump all the way in this case with us! The current WS members on this case have a lot of pooled knowledge & know where to find things having to do with this case. If you have questions, we can be a big help to you. If you ~ might possibly ~ have comments or bits of new info, we'd like to hear your opinion or hear things only you might know. Join -- be a part of a great group of Sleuthers!!

 

[josie1986]

Could it be the defense asking for another check? I can't believe Juan wouldn't have already checked it out. And I wouldn't put it past Nurmi to ask for another check to try to prove Juan wrong.

im pretty sure he has spoken to someone but now needs the actual physical copies of those records now

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Could it be the defense asking for another check? I can't believe Juan wouldn't have already checked it out. And I wouldn't put it past Nurmi to ask for another check to try to prove Juan wrong.

I am sure Juan has checked it out thoroughly. If it is impeachment evidence or rebuttal evidence he does not have to turn it over to the defense.

The DT should have long ago found out about this. It just shows how slow they are and have to take hints from Juan to do their case.

IMO

 

[KandyKane]

Super post. Thanks!

You're very welcome!

I just love these kinds of premeditation cases the best because it's such fun going through their planning and figuring out what they messed up. They say that even the smartest of criminals make something like 25 mistakes in planning out their crimes, and I just have to believe it.

I have to admit, that Jodi did plan some things out I wouldn't have thought of, but on the other hand she totally botched some really obvious things that she should have thought of and that I just can't understand how she could possibly not have like such obvious paper trails.

This case really grabbed me since I saw the 48 Hours special years ago, and she seemed so creepy and obviously full of it with EVERYTHING she said it gave me chills. I honestly can't think of any other criminal that creeps me out as much as she does. I'm sure not the only one either, and I never actually met her. Seems like EVERYONE that knew her got the big freaky nutball vibe from her.

 

[leebee52]

wonder how big the cold sore is today.....

Perhaps there are more.

 

[Dmacky]

Sorry to quote myself. Even if the gate was still up, I'm sure Napolean would be trying to get up to that room. I know he was trying, in some way, to get to where he knew Travis was.

I know one of the roommates said he thought it was odd (in hindsight) that the gate was up, because Napolion always had full run of the house. But said it wasn't his house, it was Travis's. And one of the roommates girlfriend was feeding Nap, so they all just assumed TA was gone on his trip. Maybe they thought TA put the gate up to keep Nap downstairs while he was in Cancun? I don't know...we will never know for sure. But being an animal owner and lover I get teary eyed every timr I think of that poor dog.

 

[scorpio24]

"Now when you say you were shaking, Miss Arias, how badly were you shaking?"

Whaaa? Did I miss something in civics class? Do we have a constitutional right to be spared all shaking while being cross-examined when we're on trial for murder?

Good to know.

This is ridiculous. I don't understand why the judge is allowing it, and even more, I don't understand why JM isn't saying anything. What does it have to do with anything to know that JM's questioning makes her shake. If anything is more irrelevant than her extensive and glorious sex life filled with consensual sexual encounters, it's that the prosecutor made her uncomfortable.

I've stopped understanding this process. I understand the court's wish to lessen the chances of an appeal. I understand that Nermi is trying to fill the air with irrelevant fluff so maybe the jury will think she's people and let her live. But I think they are taking this beyond anything reasonable.

I think the question was posed because the jurors did NOT see JA shake during cross-examination or, really, at any point during the trial. She made the comparison of JM's "grilling" to that of TA's abuse. And there was NO shaking.

The jurors clearly saw what I saw: she was not a woman who would be pushed around, emotionally or physically. They have eyes and see her body language. She never shook "like a chihuahua." That's why she said she shook on the "inside." :twocents:

 

[KandyKane]

Don't know about the stores in CA or AZ, but every single store I've been to where I've returned a purchase required some documentation from me - i.e., receipt to verify purchase, me signing something verifying the return and credit back to card or cash, etc.

I don't believe for one second that Walmart lets anyone walk in off the street with (or without) a receipt and they take the merchandise back, give the person cash and don't have any record of it.

Is JA is so stupid that she thinks saying she received cash somehow erases any trace of her returning the gas can?

That just baffles me about her. She never seemed to ever consider paper trails from any business... the gas station, her own bank, Walmart, etc.

Stores are such sticklers about returns you have to go through far more paperwork to return a can of tuna than to purchase a whole shopping cart full of groceries!

 

[K_Z]

Sorry if someone already addressed this since once again I'm several pages behind...

Recall that her cover story was going to be that she was not in Arizona at all when Travis was killed and hadn't seen him since whatever date it was that she had last seen him (I think she told the police it was April that she'd last seen him). In order for her to leave no paper trail of her being in Arizona like stopping for gas, she calculated the miles per gallon of the rental car with the miles she had to drive to get in and out of Arizona and discovered that it would take a full tank in the car plus THREE 5 gallon tanks of gas. So, she borrows only TWO tanks from her ex and buys the third one at Walmart on her own that no one is supposed to know about, but of course, her financial records from Walmart have her buying that 3rd gas can. This way she could say that she borrowed only two gas cans from her ex, so there's no way that she could have gotten in and out of Arizona without three of them.

Her excuse for having any gas cans at all is that she wanted to save the money in the higher gas prices having to buy gas on the road though that makes no sense once she discovered that she did buy that third gas can because the amount of that third gas can was equal to or higher than the amount of money she would have saved with the higher gas prices. She did admit that yes, she did buy that third gas can and realized that it was illogical to have done so given her reason for saving a few bucks in buying gas, BUT she insisted over and over that she never used that third gas can and returned it to Walmart unused on the same day that she bought it and received a cash refund for it. She even interupted Martinez when he mentioned she used three gas cans exclaiming that NO she only used the two she borrowed and returned the third to Walmart unused.

And that's when Martinez pulled the paperwork on her to prove she was lying about it and that it pointed to her premeditation to murder Travis becaue her story at that time was that she was never in Arizona at all, and that she KNEW she needed that 3rd gas can in order to have enough gas to get in and out of Arizona with no papertrail of her having purchased any gas there. He hits her with the gas receipts that she made three gas purchases at the same gas station at the same time - one receipt was for filling the car tank, one receipt for filling the two gas cans she borrowed from her ex AND one for filling that third gas can. She purposely only turned over the receipts for filling the car tank and the receipt for filling the two borrowed gas cans and pretended the third receipt for that 3rd gas can she insists she didn't use and returned to Walmart for a cash refund as though it didn't exist and to hide the fact that she DID purchase gas for that third gas can and used it.

Martinez showed her her own bank statement that showed her creditcard purchases for all this gas and showed that the third mysterious purchase she insisted that she didn't make was equal to the price of 5.09 gallons of gas - for her 5 gallon third gas can. She still tried to insist she never used that third can, but the bank statement proves that she did because the store that was part of the gas station was closed at that time she made these gas purchases, and the only thing that could have been purchased at that station at that time was gas and only with a credit or debit card swiped at the pump. She knew she couldn't argue that she spent that money for that third receipt on food and drinks in the store (that just sooooo happened to add up to the price of 5 gallons of gas) because at this point she would have known that Martinez already knew that the store part of the gas station was closed at the time she made those gas purchases.

Martinez then immediately hits her with the lie she told about returning that third gas can to Walmart for a cash refund because it was unused that Walmart has no record of her returning that gas can though she tries to continue to insist that she did even though everyone knows that no one can return anything to any store and get a refund for it without the store having a record of the return.

It was then that her face fell and you could totally see that she knew, the jury knew, and everyone knew that she was totally caught and she had nothing at all to offer as an excuse for any of this. It's like she never took into account any of the paper trails of the businesses that used as if they don't keep their own records... the gas station, her own bank, Walmart, etc.

That's where the trial ended for the day, and now we wait for it to pick up again to see what happens. Oh, that shell-shocked look on her face when she realized she was caught out and could come up with nothing off the cuff to excuse it all was just PRICELESS!
:great:

All this gas can business shows that she premeditated the murder by making all these pre-planned preparations of disguising that she was in Arizona at all which was her cover story until after she returned home and was caught out by the police under questioning and had to come up with a new story that yes, she was at Travis's house after all. All this info about the gas cans is the PROOF that she attempted to hide the fact that she was in Arizona and her cover story to match is PROOF of premeditation to go to his house to kill him.

Excellent summary! Thank you for taking time to summarize that.

I wanted to add about Jodi's claim of receiving a cash refund from Wal Mart. In my area, a purchase made with a credit card is refunded TO the credit card; there is no cash refund option for cc purchases. If you paid cash, and it is within a certain time (30 days, I think) you can get a cash refund, but there is still documentation of the return, and you have to fill out an address and phone number, also. I remember doing a cash purchase return once recently, and instead of cash back they gave me a WM store card. And still completed paperwork. I don't remember if they gave me a store card because the amount was very small, or why exactly, as I have never done a return greater than 30 days in my life.

The point is that WM has very narrow circumstances under which they will give a cash refund, and there is always a record. Years ago, there were problems with people smuggling items out of the store, then carrying them back another day without a receipt to ask for a cash refund. WM is pretty specific about return policies, and I suspect cashiers have exactly zero independent free judgement in deviating from these policies.

So from where I'm sitting, it doesn't matter whether or not Jodi claims to have received cash back in her return process. There still would have been a definite record of the return process, whether cash, credit, or store card. At ANY WM store, not just the one she bought the gas can from. Jodi was stupid enough to think that if she lied and said she got a cash refund, that it would minimize the transaction importance, and eliminate the record of the return. Juan nailed her on that.

 

[leebee52]

I think at the time she WAS that strong. Plenty of us have used our hubbies to see if we could pull them on a tile floor and were able to do so without huffing and puffing.

Im in pretty good shape and have great upper body strength but decades older than Jodi. Of course I wasnt pumped with adernaline either. My hubby weighs 190 and I weigh 117 and I had no problem dragging him on our tile floor. In fact I pulled him by his wrists and then pulled him by his feet/ankles and still did not have a problem when I pulled him about 20 feet each way.

The stab wounds could have hit bone. She was able to slice his neck open all the way back to his spine with one slice. Jodi is not a weak person by any means.

The evidence supports that the gunshot came last. If shot already he would not have the capability to throw his hands up nor get down the hallway or and yeah still be cussing at her. That part of her story is laughable if it werent so sad and such a lie.

IMO

It's also likely that Travis was all soaped up which would have made it much easier to slide him down the hallway.

 

[dani]

IF she gets the DP, it looks like the number of visitations will be fairly tight. Who will be on her visitor list? And how far away will visitors have to travel? Will her mother be a regular? I'm still wondering about their relationship -- how it is now -- are they close? I have no feel about whether her mom will make the trip or whether she wants to visit her... Somebody will have to give her "snack bar money." Who will provide it??

BBM: The Brian Carrs of the world. Unfortunately the world has more of them than we want to know about. :banghead: