Is Casey the real Zenaida?

[Valhall]

Eunice,

This thread has been - and I predict will be - a lesson in community. All we can do is pray that LE took this serious (which I believe they did), took the steps to acquire the needed data (which I believe they did), and know far more than we do at this time (which I believe they do).

It's just complete anguish sitting on the outside and waiting to see if that is the case.

If all of this is bullcrap, I'll be the first to come and eat my hat - and any other piece of clothing required to appease the gods - and accept the facts. The facts are what is important.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I have to admit I prefer 11:31 am much better.

BUT - keep in mind that this "last update" could have been nothing but adding the Dora pic, entering a blog entry (that later could have been deleted without affecting the update field), etc.

So...what I'm saying is, the page could have been created earlier in the day and then trivially updated at 2:31 pm. In fact, if there is a 3 hour lag between her setting up the account and getting the cell phone myspace notification that the account is set up, and then being able to load a picture, etc....it kind of makes sense, doesn't it?

Ya know...:waitasec: the scary thing is...that actually DOES make sense. Which would put us back to the candidates highlighted in red as potentials. Which put us sideways w/ the Encase report. So....:waitasec:...seems possible...but maybe not as much so as the 2:31PM scenario. If I'm puttin' money down I'm puttin' it on 2:31PM Eastern @ the moment.

 

[magic-cat]

Instead of thanking each post, may I say Thank You and Brilliant! to JWG, Val, and BJB. It's at this point of your sleuthing that I feel an overwhelming need to get out of the way, go sit in a corner, and watch it all unfold.:ashamed: I am nowhere in your league. Thank you for all the work you do!

Sitting quietly in the corner with Eunice.

 

[RR0004]

Eunice,

This thread has been - and I predict will be - a lesson in community. All we can do is pray that LE took this serious (which I believe they did), took the steps to acquire the needed data (which I believe they did), and know far more than we do at this time (which I believe they do).

It's just complete anguish sitting on the outside and waiting to see if that is the case.

If all of this is bullcrap, I'll be the first to come and eat my hat - and any other piece of clothing required to appease the gods - and accept the facts. The facts are what is important.

Val...did they ever respond after you submitted all the info?

 

[essies]

Instead of thanking each post, may I say Thank You and Brilliant! to JWG, Val, and BJB. It's at this point of your sleuthing that I feel an overwhelming need to get out of the way, go sit in a corner, and watch it all unfold.:ashamed: I am nowhere in your league. Thank you for all the work you do!

 

[BondJamesBond]

Well, all I can offer is that perhaps 10-minute KC did not have anything that resembled a plan. :waitasec: She was working with a name - "zenaida" - and that was about it. Lazy KC started to create a myspace identity and then got distracted by Tony and Fusian. Somehow the Sawgrass Zenaida fell into her lap, and she partially latched on to that. Who really knows?

So...prolly belongs on a "Theories..." thread, but, WTH, I've already mucked up this one :bang:...

IF Casey put no-shoed Caylee down for a nap @ 2PM'ish while George was still @ home...THEN Casey created a Zenaida-MS @ 2:31PM (or before) just a few minutes BEFORE George left home ~2:45PM'ish...THEN...Casey dropped an on-going call with Jesse that started @ 2:52PM to take a call from George's cell @ 3:04PM (telling us she was nervous 'bout something perhaps :waitasec....

One scenario would have the deed going down the second George walked out the door and before Casey accepted the incoming call from Jesse @ 2:52PM. IMHO, it seems unlikely Casey would've accepted that incoming call from Jesse if she was engaged in...or had just engaged in snuffing out Caylee

Another scenario would have Casey putting the pieces in place (e.g. Zenaida's MS set-up) waiting for George to leave and taking Jesse's call before committing the crime. Going this route would mean that taking George's call was necessary to make sure the coast was going to remain clear...otherwise it seems Casey might've just continued her convo w/ Jesse. That would give Casey her first opportunity @ 3:05PM when she hung up w/ George.

FWIW...some discussion earlier 'bout the 4:11PM "flurry" being an exercise in gotta-break-the-prearrangement-to-leave-Caylee-with-Cindy-cause-Caylee's-dead-and-howinthehellamIgonnaexplainthattoMom (nod to AZ ) which would fit w/ a...

Applied duct tape to a sleeping no-shoed, Caylee between 3:05PM-4:11PM...perhaps even considering the ~20 second call to Tony @ 3:35PM indicating that the timing was more like 3:05PM-3:35PM...with 3:35-4:11PM being stow-Caylee-in-the-trunk-initially-and-grab-some-stuff time.

...further out on that limb oke:...I can imagine that you might be able to ever-so-gently-so-as-not-to-awaken-them apply a strip or two of duct tape over a sleeping child's mouth before placing the final strip over their nose and if it the ends were long enough to be stuck to the hair it would only serve to make it painful for the victim to to attempt removing...intentional or not...serving a secondary purpose. Put the heart sticker on the last piece of tape over the mouth before applying one final piece over the nose.

In this scenario the duct tape wouldn't be conveniently in the nightstand...it would have to be retrieved...fitting with a Zenaida-MS-set-up ahead of time @ 2:31PM. Gonna make this look like a kidnapping gone wrong and blame it on 'Zenaida'...

Somewhere between 4:11PM and showing up @ Tony's apt. she (a) lost her nerve about reporting the kidnapping, (b) realized she hadn't thought of the details of what she was going to tell LE about how Zenaida got away from her without signs of a scuffle or any witnesses, (c) something else...and the defer/delay strategy kicked in.

A Zenaida-in-Miami does seem to fit nicely with some of the statements Casey made after her initial arrest 'bout whether or not Zenaida had left the area and what area code she associated w/ some of Zenaida's past phone #'s. And IIRC, she stated ZFG's mother Gloria lived in Miami.

...pehaps the tape was just over the mouth and the idea was to have an alive-Caylee staged somewhere to scare-the-helloutta Cindy so she'd insist on keeping Caylee in the future. :waitasec: Heart sticker applied in an attempt to make it a game. Casey places an alive, but, taped Caylee in the trunk so as not to be seen, but, ready to be dropped somewhere that doesn't work out...

Theory #...ahhhhelll...I've lost count :bang:

 

[cecybeans]

Eunice,

This thread has been - and I predict will be - a lesson in community. All we can do is pray that LE took this serious (which I believe they did), took the steps to acquire the needed data (which I believe they did), and know far more than we do at this time (which I believe they do).

It's just complete anguish sitting on the outside and waiting to see if that is the case.

If all of this is bullcrap, I'll be the first to come and eat my hat - and any other piece of clothing required to appease the gods - and accept the facts. The facts are what is important.

Dearheart, if you end up eating any items of clothing, I'm sure we will all be happy to do the same - your excellent work on both the zenaida website and ZG22, and the validation and corroboration JWG, BJB and others have contributed make this theory one of the very few that actually make a lot of sense in this case of convoluted confusion and coagulated conundrums.

If we in fact end up doing that, let's just make sure we wash it all down with some great margaritas! And if not, and your valuable work comes to fruition, let's celebrate with some great margaritas too.

 

[christee]

Sitting quietly in the corner with Eunice.

(lol, me too :read

 

[cecybeans]

BJB - great theory. I would assume that even a sleeping Caylee (unless she was totally out because she'd been drugged or something) would have awakened when she couldn't breathe and tried to claw away the duct tape from her face.

If there are any marks showing a struggle, or Caylee's prints on that or any other layer, it will show she was still alive when it was applied. Of course, KC could have also used bedding (like a pillow) to restrain her and quicken the process. I don't imagine that would take more than a few minutes. Whatever happened, the phrase "spiteful little b****" keeps taking on more weight as time goes by.

 

[AZlawyer]

Dearheart, if you end up eating any items of clothing, I'm sure we will all be happy to do the same - your excellent work on both the zenaida website and ZG22, and the validation and corroboration JWG, BJB and others have contributed make this theory one of the very few that actually make a lot of sense in this case of convoluted confusion and coagulated conundrums.

If we in fact end up doing that, let's just make sure we wash it all down with some great margaritas! And if not, and your valuable work comes to fruition, let's celebrate with some great margaritas too.

Yes!! Margaritas either way!

And BJB's latest theory is excellent. Answering the phone for George's call just after 3 pm makes a lot of sense if she was just about to enact the Plan and was afraid he was calling to say, "I'm on my way back to the house."

 

[BondJamesBond]

Some terrifically-sleuthy stuff Val & JWG :clap:

Esp. hafta love Archenemies observation 'bout Favoriting the Zenaida myspace and revealing the timestamp on last updated too! :thumb:

 

[The Eunice Burns]

Eunice,

This thread has been - and I predict will be - a lesson in community. All we can do is pray that LE took this serious (which I believe they did), took the steps to acquire the needed data (which I believe they did), and know far more than we do at this time (which I believe they do).

It's just complete anguish sitting on the outside and waiting to see if that is the case.

If all of this is bullcrap, I'll be the first to come and eat my hat - and any other piece of clothing required to appease the gods - and accept the facts. The facts are what is important.

Thank you, Val. I think you're right on--it is agonizing, the wait to see how all of this pans out and how all of this info that you and others are processing fits into the case. FWIW, I don't think you'd have to eat your hat or any other item of clothing, b/c I think you are all onto something here.

 

[cecybeans]

What I don't get is all the calls to Lexus during the "flurry" - isn't that the same day when they happened? What was that all about? Or am I just too sleepy to recall correctly?

 

[BondJamesBond]

What I don't get is all the calls to Lexus during the "flurry" - isn't that the same day when they happened? What was that all about? Or am I just too sleepy to recall correctly?

Now you're just taunting me. Thread in the Case Analysis Forum re: "Lexus".

 

[lin]

Okay, I hope I can say this right. It has been bugging me for quite a bit and I was talking to another WS'er and we agreed.

If KC is ZG22, wouldn't she want to retain that alias for future use? Once she paid off her ticket she could continue to use the ID in the future - especially if she had eventual plans to "fall off the grid" as herself. (and particularly if she wanted to "disappear" in case anything happened to her parents, then pop back up when she inherited a house - or so she may have thought).

So why - either before or after killing Caylee - would she use that name for a MySpace page and to finger a real ZG who had visited Sawgrass? Wouldn't she have taken the time to just find another person with a common name to set up for the kidnapping and keep her own fake identity intact? She acted like she had all the time in the world after she left home - and apparently didn't think her parents were smart enough to track her down to Tony's when she had told them she was in Jacksonville.

Do you think she just thought it was a good way to ditch her aka so she wouldn't have to pay the traffic fine? Maybe she was planning on retiring that name and getting a new alias.

So little that girl does makes any sense at all. Like I said before, she is like some kind of challenged sociopath, in that many of them seem to be smart enough to pull off an "event planner" type incident that she doesn't have the follow-through skill set to pull off.

ZG was the murderer. KC has to explain why she doesn't have Caylee anymore. ZG starts out as the imaginanny; maybe morphed into a possible getaway id; but ended up the imagimurderer. IOW, she can remain clever KC, the grieving mother; tearfully accept fame, donations, book & movie deals if ZG is the culprit. If she absconds as ZG, that all goes down the drain. Remember the missing children's website searches...

Doesn't all that sound like a game of CLUE? And that's about the max of her thinking level, imo. In fact, probably giving her way too much credit.

 

[lin]

Sitting quietly in the corner with Eunice.

And I'm coming to sit with you both. I'm bringing popcorn to share.

 

[lin]

So...prolly belongs on a "Theories..." thread, but, WTH, I've already mucked up this one :bang:...

IF Casey put no-shoed Caylee down for a nap @ 2PM'ish while George was still @ home...THEN Casey created a Zenaida-MS @ 2:31PM (or before) just a few minutes BEFORE George left home ~2:45PM'ish...THEN...Casey dropped an on-going call with Jesse that started @ 2:52PM to take a call from George's cell @ 3:04PM (telling us she was nervous 'bout something perhaps :waitasec....

One scenario would have the deed going down the second George walked out the door and before Casey accepted the incoming call from Jesse @ 2:52PM. IMHO, it seems unlikely Casey would've accepted that incoming call from Jesse if she was engaged in...or had just engaged in snuffing out Caylee

Another scenario would have Casey putting the pieces in place (e.g. Zenaida's MS set-up) waiting for George to leave and taking Jesse's call before committing the crime. Going this route would mean that taking George's call was necessary to make sure the coast was going to remain clear...otherwise it seems Casey might've just continued her convo w/ Jesse. That would give Casey her first opportunity @ 3:05PM when she hung up w/ George.

FWIW...some discussion earlier 'bout the 4:11PM "flurry" being an exercise in gotta-break-the-prearrangement-to-leave-Caylee-with-Cindy-cause-Caylee's-dead-and-howinthehellamIgonnaexplainthattoMom (nod to AZ ) which would fit w/ a...

Applied duct tape to a sleeping no-shoed, Caylee between 3:05PM-4:11PM...perhaps even considering the ~20 second call to Tony @ 3:35PM indicating that the timing was more like 3:05PM-3:35PM...with 3:35-4:11PM being stow-Caylee-in-the-trunk-initially-and-grab-some-stuff time.

...further out on that limb oke:...I can imagine that you might be able to ever-so-gently-so-as-not-to-awaken-them apply a strip or two of duct tape over a sleeping child's mouth before placing the final strip over their nose and if it the ends were long enough to be stuck to the hair it would only serve to make it painful for the victim to to attempt removing...intentional or not...serving a secondary purpose. Put the heart sticker on the last piece of tape over the mouth before applying one final piece over the nose.

In this scenario the duct tape wouldn't be conveniently in the nightstand...it would have to be retrieved...fitting with a Zenaida-MS-set-up ahead of time @ 2:31PM. Gonna make this look like a kidnapping gone wrong and blame it on 'Zenaida'...

Somewhere between 4:11PM and showing up @ Tony's apt. she (a) lost her nerve about reporting the kidnapping, (b) realized she hadn't thought of the details of what she was going to tell LE about how Zenaida got away from her without signs of a scuffle or any witnesses, (c) something else...and the defer/delay strategy kicked in.A Zenaida-in-Miami does seem to fit nicely with some of the statements Casey made after her initial arrest 'bout whether or not Zenaida had left the area and what area code she associated w/ some of Zenaida's past phone #'s. And IIRC, she stated ZFG's mother Gloria lived in Miami.

...pehaps the tape was just over the mouth and the idea was to have an alive-Caylee staged somewhere to scare-the-helloutta Cindy so she'd insist on keeping Caylee in the future. :waitasec: Heart sticker applied in an attempt to make it a game. Casey places an alive, but, taped Caylee in the trunk so as not to be seen, but, ready to be dropped somewhere that doesn't work out...

Theory #...ahhhhelll...I've lost count :bang:

BBM -- or... I wonder if there are still some of those cookies in the kitchen? Or maybe a commercial with a "really cute boy" came on the tv...

All around excellent post, btw.

 

[JWG]

*snipped*

So...if we go with a 2:31PM Eastern realtime MS update, the absence of any MySpace alerts to Casey's cell log >5:31PM would simply mean that a Casey-as-Zenaida didn't leave any messages on Casey's MS page. :crazy:

Getting back to placing it in context...the bookend activity for a 2:31PM Eastern set-up would've been between the call w/ Amy and Jesse:

6/16/08 MON 1:44:54 PM OUTGOING CALL Casey Anthony Amy Huzienga
6/16/08 MON 2:52:53 PM INCOMING CALL Jesse Grund Casey Anthony

Noting that the call w/ Amy lasted 36 mins it would mean that Casey ended it @ ~2:21PM :shocked2:

Also noting that George'd be leaving somewhere ~2:30-2:45PM'ish.

JWG: What time suited the naps? 2-4PM?

I had based my nap-time assumption on Photobucket upload patterns, which put nap time at roughly 1-3PM. But, IIRC, the Photobucket time stamps are CST (per a response to a subpoena), which would put us at 2-4PM.

 

[Valhall]

Val...did they ever respond after you submitted all the info?

No, but as I've said before, I never expected to get a response. Even a "thank you" could be misinterpreted, so I think they would not respond.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

. . . and here's another thank you from the quiet corner. I think God is working some of His miracles through all of you. (Sorry, the "button" doesn't show quite enough appreciation from this ancient cheerleader ~ but I do feel embarrassed to take up any space in this brilliant thread so will try to remain in that corner!)