Is the state's case effective so far?

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
JB`s sensationalism in the opening statement surprised me, should`ve known.

They had to add George and/or Kronk because of the duct tape. The duct tape (three pieces of it) disputes accidental drowning theory. Neither of them had reason to put duct tape on Caylee but their involvement might create some confusion or doubt if it was Casey responsible for it.

The problem I see with that story is RK called LE in August. That is the earliest date known to us so far. Caylee would have been bones by then. Therefore Dr. G can refute the duct tape being placed on a skull. In fact I believe she already did.
 
We all know what reasonable doubt means for the defense to win, but think about what it means for the state. Whatever doubt a juror has means nothing unless it is reasonable. Even if it may seem like the DT has provided reasonable doubt today, I am very confident that once the jurors have been given the big picture, nothing about the DT's theories will seem reasonable.

The SAs are making the right move by staying on the offensive, IMO. Let the DT scramble around and try to combat the information that the SAs present, not the other way around.

I really do think that the state is in trouble, but then again I have not been following the case as long as most here, I have not combed through all of the documents, I don't even know what all the documents are, or all of the evidence against ICA.

The state is lucky JB talked about RK's alleged involvement in the case. That theory is absurd. There are however many questions in my mind about RK, there are just so many coincidences surrounding his role in this tragedy. To me it APPEARS that there is reasonable doubt surrounding that he is being truthful. To me, the accusations made by the DT against RK in the opening statements work in the prosecution's favor. Since the DT's theory is so absurd, it casts doubt that anything they say about RK's involvement is BS.

I found a defense motion regarding the definition of reasonable doubt that I can't find a discussion about anywhere:
http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/High-Profile-Cases/Anthony/Downloads/Objection%20to%20the%20Standard%20Jury%20Instruction%20on%20Reasonable%20Doubt%2011-25-2009.pdf

Was this motion denied? It seems like it could really affect the outcome of the case, would it?
 
The problem I see with that story is RK called LE in August. That is the earliest date known to us so far. Caylee would have been bones by then. Therefore Dr. G can refute the duct tape being placed on a skull. In fact I believe she already did.

Yes, they might pin the duct tape on George, Kronk is to add tampering of body/remains.

Can someone give me a reasonable reason why George would put duct tape on dead Caylee and create a worse situation than accidental drowning?
 
Yes, they might pin the duct tape on George, Kronk is to add tampering of body/remains.

Can someone give me a reasonable reason why George would put duct tape on dead Caylee and create a worse situation than accidental drowning?

Nope.

The state's case will be even more effective if they can:

Show via phone records that KC and GA were not at the residence together when JB says they were/when Caylee was murdered, if JB even gave us a time (I think he was vague).

Ask TL about the statement he made to KC about not wanting to have a daughter. Not that they can play the full Susan Smith card, just adds another layer of explanation.
 
My thoughts are in Purple.

But people do have a short attention span, even on juries, and even with the best of intentions going in...it will be tough-going to keep the interest of all 12 when the dry stuff really comes in, day after day...it is just a fact. I've seen juries with at least one person asleep, we probably all have, and all victims of crimes are equally worthwhile as far as justice goes.

I agree. IIRC that was put out there as an explanation for the NG verdict for OJ. So it seems to me that Scott Peterson's conviction following a very tedious case presented by the state isn't useful when trying judge whether or not the prosecution in this case will succeed.

I'm not an expert at all, but it seems like nothing is really black and white when it comes to determining if either sides case will result in a conviction. I think its possible to note tendencies, but there are just so many variables involved. Its very complicated. Look how much money defense attorneys spend on jury consultants.

Of course it can be argued that Clark and Darden's prosecution failed because alot of the technology was new. The jurors didn't know how to judge something that they were not familiar with, let alone understand how it works or if it could be reliable.

In this case I am most concerned with the air samples because I think that it is a new technology. I think that the hair banding is new too, right? The jurors could distrust those pieces of evidence because they have never seen it in a TV cop drama. On the other hand they since they see all sorts of amazing was to process evidence on CSI they may be accepting of the new technology.


Of course the trial does not need to be entertaining, but it does need to engage the interest and sympathies of 12 very different people and maintain that throughout a period of weeks or months.


Again, I think of a comparison to OJ's prosecution. Another explanation for that NG verdict was that the prosecution image was not engaging. IIRC, Marcia Clark fiddled around with her appearance during the trial. (That really p1ssed me off and I wonder if those judgements have anything to do with all that plastic surgery she's had. I understand why personal presentation is important, but I think sexism played a part in how Marcia was judged.)

One time I heard VP Biden say that he could have been president if he had better hair. He was making a joke of course but there is some truth to it. Whether we like it or not how a candidate looks is important to getting elected. Think JFK and Jackie or Reagan, people love image. John Kerry has had plastic surgery, and I really don't think he is the type that would do it if he weren't a politician.


I think that this early on, everyone knows that the stage is being set and that it won't be all fireworks. Hopefully the state won't "lose" anyone before the parts that are of most interest and importance come into play.

That's one of the reasons I do have confidence in the jurors ability to understand all the technical and more tedious because of all those crime dramas. People see that technology is involved in these cases and expect it.


I don't know this case inside out the way many do and am trying really hard to watch it as if I know nothing; right now, I would have no idea what happened to Caylee, from this trial, and would need someone to show me. I hope the state can do it.

Me too, and its making me nervous.

I thought of something that could influence the jurors in favor of the state, but I don't know if its hogwash or not. I actually worry that this traumatic and tragic story will greatly affect their peace of mind. Especially since they can't speak to loved ones to process what they are seeing. I wonder if that will will make them all the more horrified with Casey's actions.

Edit: I tried to fix the quote box, but I can't figure out why it broke up there at the beginning.

Edit 2: Okay, figured it out. I'm going to bed.:eek:fftobed: This stuff gives me analysis paralysis.:thud:
 
Nope.

The state's case will be even more effective if they can:

Show via phone records that KC and GA were not at the residence together when JB says they were/when Caylee was murdered, if JB even gave us a time (I think he was vague).

Ask TL about the statement he made to KC about not wanting to have a daughter. Not that they can play the full Susan Smith card, just adds another layer of explanation.

GA and Casey were at home together that day, June 16th. George left for work by 2:30 ish.

http://www.acandyrose.com/casey_anthony_31days.htm

If you look at the cell and computer records for that day you will see that Casey was very busy talking and messaging her friends about fusion and about she and Amy 'moving in to Hopespring' together.'

The only real gap in her cell and computer usage was from 10 to 11:47 am.
So they seem to be implying it happened then.

Problem with that is Casey had a 19 minute conversation with Tony @ 11:47 about their movie date that night. Could she really walk away from her dead child's body and have a long conversation about a date?

Just because they say she was an incest survivor it does not mean she would have no feelings about her childs death. That is insulting to abuse victims for them to even try and say that. imoo
 
GA and Casey were at home together that day, June 16th. George left for work by 2:30 ish.

If you look at the cell and computer records for that day you will see that Casey was very busy talking and messaging her friends about fusion and about she and Amy 'moving in to Hopespring' together.'

The only real gap in her cell and computer usage was from 10 to 11:47 am.
So they seem to be implying it happened then.

Problem with that is Casey had a 19 minute conversation with Tony @ 11:47 about their movie date that night. Could she really walk away from her dead child's body and have a long conversation about a date?

Just because they say she was an incest survivor it does not mean she would have no feelings about her childs death. That is insulting to abuse victims for them to even try and say that. imoo

Yes, I know they were home together, but you have definitely answered my question-and maybe you even answered it for JB, cause I don't remember him clearly stating a time. That is another thing he has been doing in the past two days that bugs-He is not getting detailed-For instance, asking MariaK what day she rode in KC's car. Don't remember him asking that. Even if he does ask about details, he may rely on short memories.
How long can he skate on the 'short on details' thin ice? Cause the state ain't gonna be short on much of anything.
 
GA and Casey were at home together that day, June 16th. George left for work by 2:30 ish.

http://www.acandyrose.com/casey_anthony_31days.htm

If you look at the cell and computer records for that day you will see that Casey was very busy talking and messaging her friends about fusion and about she and Amy 'moving in to Hopespring' together.'

The only real gap in her cell and computer usage was from 10 to 11:47 am.
So they seem to be implying it happened then.

Problem with that is Casey had a 19 minute conversation with Tony @ 11:47 about their movie date that night. Could she really walk away from her dead child's body and have a long conversation about a date?

Just because they say she was an incest survivor it does not mean she would have no feelings about her childs death. That is insulting to abuse victims for them to even try and say that. imoo


I'm sure that gap figured into Baez's bizarre strategy as well, even though he was confused about the time of the drowning. Casey was calling and texting all the time in general.
 
Just getting to your post, Leila, so someone may have already addressed this, but won't this come in with the cell phone expert's testimony?:waitasec:

I hope the cell phone pings for that period, June 15 and 16 are brought in. And I also hope the state mentions what videos Tony and Casey rented from Blockbuster's on June 15th.
 
So far, the defense has continued to put forth any and all witnesses that will testify there was NO smell in the car in the immediate hours after Caylee died. However, KC herself texted Amy H about there being an odor and that it was a squirrel plasterd to the frame of her car. Regardless of how many people testify that they never smelled anything, there comes a time when KC herself addresses it via text msg with Amy. I think Amy will be very important, not only for this reason, but for others as well. TL testified today that KC was only supposed to take him to the airport, but we all know she used his vehicle more than what he intended. So really, JB trying to establish that the smell in the car was nonexistent, he will be sorely mistaken when Amy testifies to the text msgs that KC sent.
 
RK is a non-entity at this point. It will be cleared up during trial. However, when he comes to testify, I imagine TeamKC will start out with questions that say, "Isn't it true that you placed the body in the duct tape, in the garbage bags into the place on Suburban Drive so that Caylee would be found?"

It just isn't going to work. There is NOvidence to even imply that RK was a player in this game. What else can one expect of such a witness?? He will just have to tell the truth, period...
 
So far, the defense has continued to put forth any and all witnesses that will testify there was NO smell in the car in the immediate hours after Caylee died. However, KC herself texted Amy H about there being an odor and that it was a squirrel plasterd to the frame of her car. Regardless of how many people testify that they never smelled anything, there comes a time when KC herself addresses it via text msg with Amy. I think Amy will be very important, not only for this reason, but for others as well. TL testified today that KC was only supposed to take him to the airport, but we all know she used his vehicle more than what he intended. So really, JB trying to establish that the smell in the car was nonexistent, he will be sorely mistaken when Amy testifies to the text msgs that KC sent.

It is actually great that JB keeps pointing out that the car did not smell in those early days. That way they cannot say it always had a bad smell, like the Anthonys tried to say it always had a 'stain' in the trunk.
 
It is actually great that JB keeps pointing out that the car did not smell in those early days. That way they cannot say it always had a bad smell, like the Anthonys tried to say it always had a 'stain' in the trunk.

This is where GA's early statements are so crucial-He told LE he noticed a stain he had not seen before, odd shaped, sort of in the middle of the liner, put his nose right down to it and it was the source of the smell (my paraphrase)...and he told them he was extremely familiar with their cars because he detailed them often.
 
I'm concerned about their questioning of Tony Lazzaro. I feel they left out a lot of questions they should be questioning him about. One area of questioning I feel the state failed to address is the cell phone calls and texting between Tony and KC during the evening of June 15th into the wee hours of June 16th and throughout the day on the 16th

That would have been a good time to introduce the cell phone pings between KC and TL for the whole 24 hours of June 15 and 16.

a monumental point.

no matter what they were about, and I'm betting it was all about them, it would be very telling.

wonder what the sa is thinking, not bringing this up?

course, tl is still on the stand. we can hope.
 
thanks for posting this. it should be required viewing for all with doubts about the SA and how this is going, on the 2nd day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakley
Yes, very effective. And Jose is helping them out quite a bit, IMO. Bill Scaeffer thinks so too. Watching this encouraged me:

http://www.wftv.com/video/28026495/index.html

Great minds and all that . lol.. i just posted the same thing lol
********************************************************

Thanks to all of you that posted the link...........
BS is so sensible and speaks so eloquently......I do feel better now,LEFT- COASTER :)
 
It cannot be dis-proven and thats all that matters really.

it (the DT opening, "death by accidental drowning, bad daddy abuse and coverup, plus RK shenanigans) does not need to be "dis proven", as you say.

because it isn't proof in the first place. it is a lawyers argument, and the judge has already and will instruct the jury again, that IT IS NOT TO BE CONSIDERED PROOF OF ANYTHING.

so, what matters, after all?
 
I'd hate to see the SA get tangled up in the DT's neverending loop of nonsense. They should stick with what they're doing - present it plainly and with common sense. The DT will only look more foolish in comparison, especially if we have more wtf moments involving actually asking a witness if ICA bought knives, guns and duct tape at Blockbuster. Seems like trying to address their nonsense will be a losing game.

THIS is exactly what's going to sink the DT. I think the jury is going to see they are over the top in their questioning and is never going to be able to provide any testimony that will back up their assertions. I was appalled at his questioning TL about "did you see ICA purchasing chloroform, etc???". Do murderers usually let others in on what they are planning???

This is just the beginning. Once forensics come in, the jury will see the writing on the wall!
 
I have said this before...the SA is not stupid...they have spent hours and hours on this...and the best thing they can do is not get sucked into the vortex of the DT!!!

The state must keep to their game plan...it is well thought out...supported...they are laying ground work.

Have you ever watched a large skyscraper go up...they must go down first and it appears like nothing is being accomplished...then...it seems the building goes up over night.

BBM That's a really good analogy! Great post!
 
So far, the defense has continued to put forth any and all witnesses that will testify there was NO smell in the car in the immediate hours after Caylee died. However, KC herself texted Amy H about there being an odor and that it was a squirrel plasterd to the frame of her car. Regardless of how many people testify that they never smelled anything, there comes a time when KC herself addresses it via text msg with Amy. I think Amy will be very important, not only for this reason, but for others as well. TL testified today that KC was only supposed to take him to the airport, but we all know she used his vehicle more than what he intended. So really, JB trying to establish that the smell in the car was nonexistent, he will be sorely mistaken when Amy testifies to the text msgs that KC sent.

Yep, wait until Lee's testimony about the smell. He'll testify that it was so awful that he had to keep walking outside the garage to get away from it. It was a smell he said he'll never forget. He'll also say all this while laughing, I'm sure! :sick:
 
Nope.

The state's case will be even more effective if they can:

Show via phone records that KC and GA were not at the residence together when JB says they were/when Caylee was murdered, if JB even gave us a time (I think he was vague).

Ask TL about the statement he made to KC about not wanting to have a daughter. Not that they can play the full Susan Smith card, just adds another layer of explanation.

After three attempts JB finally went with the 'accidental drowning' taking place in the early morning hours. Exact time unknown.
Funny that he stumbled on that detail, when GA and ICA were both at the house . But he could also be alleging that Caylee's death happened even before CA left for work and just went unnoticed by all.

I like that the state is detail ,time-line, and fact-focused, but they need to get some some rhythm and rapport happening with the witnesses.
Lot's of awkwardness all round yesterday. Hope today is a little smoother.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
94
Guests online
2,020
Total visitors
2,114

Forum statistics

Threads
601,008
Messages
18,117,099
Members
230,995
Latest member
truelove
Back
Top