Jodi Arias TAKES THE STAND #38 *may contain graphic and adult content*

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Woohoo! Finally here. Need to catch up, but just wanted to post "hello from Montreal!" And you guys are entertaining, and smart.... :)

Welcome!! :seeya: I've been on here for a few weeks now and it's really addicting! It is such a great group of people and the discussions are nonstop!
 
Is there any corroborating evidence anywhere suggesting Travis asked Jodi for money, for any reason? Other than purchase of his car?

I wait with baited breath to have Juan point out the "Iowa" (or was it "idaho") note on one of the checks.

I am pretty sure that Jodi could have been paying him for one of the trips she went on with him. (see money thread for more details)
 
When one slices and dices a murder with 20/20 vision after the fact, it's easy to see what people should have or could have seen.

My sister's killer ate Thanksgiving dinner in my home a month before killing her. yes there were signs he was not "right" , that this was a very risky situation, etc.

But let me tell you, NO ONE thinks as their first line of thinking that a person is plotting a murder. Unless, like me, you've experienced it first hand then have to live the rest of your life navigating waters fearing the worst can actually be in your sights and you can't see it.

Dating has become a mine field for me since my sister's murder. That is one of many aftermaths of enduring a situation such as this.

"How could I not see this coming?" vs. "no one could ever see this coming".

I know exactly what you mean. My heart goes out to you.
 
I wait with baited breath to have Juan point out the "Iowa" (or was it "idaho") note on one of the checks.

I am pretty sure that Jodi could have been paying him for one of the trips she went on with him. (see money thread for more details)

Oh wow! I didn't know that! I can see how she'd have horrible credit and no credit cards and he'd put the trips on his card and she'd pay him back. Duh! Oh boy I can't wait for JM to clear this and about a million other things up for the jury. Once they find her the LIAR she is, this whole defense goes out the window IMO. It's predicated on them believing HER. And, for real? I mean! :jail:
 
I've been wanting to write about something related to this defense and it has to do with what this defense team attempts to normalize which also is a dovetail off what Betty Broderick tried to fly in justification for her heinous double murder.

Not only does this defense insult true domestic violence victims who are in fear of their lives on a daily basis but it also insults women, like me, who have navigated the world of dating complete with "bad boys" and all the dynamics we've survived and thrived through.

There are some very common dynamics that happen with men and women. So common that there are entire sections in bookstores devoted to them. There are movies devoted to them. Some of the best poetry ever written is inspired by them. The pursuit/retreat , Mars/Venus , "he's just not that in to you" , love and rejection dynamics.

It is very common for women to feel intimacy too soon and engage in sex way too soon thinking it's a springboard to a relationship. When in reality is the ending point for the man. As the pursuit he is naturally feeling ends with that act. Then men will distance and women will turn themselves in to pretzels to try and "get that feeling back". In reality, most of the time at that juncture, it's over. And the woman would be better served learning from her mistake and moving forward being more cautious in the future. I will say that I do know there are some instances when sex occurs quickly and the relationship thrives. But this is not the norm in dating in my opinion and most people are just "shopping" at that stage of dating and rarely does a man fall instantly like that and commit. It can happen but it's not the norm by any means. And I think men should not be penalized for wanting that pursuit. That's how they are wired. Women are smart to understand this.

Sometimes when this has happened, a man will stay involved with the woman just for the sex. People will generally "take" just as much as you are willing to give. If a woman acts like she's ok with this "friends with benefits" situation, then where is the man at fault? How does he know it's all strategic in her mind...some attempt to lure him back. But he's long gone and looking for the "new cow" (that's from an Ashley Judd movie Someone Like You that is based entirely on these dynamics). In my personal experience and , as a therapist and basically a woman on this planet with female friends, it is a VERY VERY rare occurrence for a woman to transition from falling in love with a man to this "casual sex" situation without an agenda and the associated constant heartbreak going on.

This was the dynamic Jodi and Travis were in. Yes, he "used" her. But she was playing along...calling him her "friend", apologizing for even mentioning "marriage" to him, escalating the sex. She was playing a game that is played all day long in our culture. This was not an unordinary dance. This, in my opinion, also does not equate abuse. Unless you call a woman devaluing herself by pretending and manipulating in this way self abusive. I know, I've done it. I'm not too proud to admit I've engaged in this behavior on more than one occasion to the detriment of my self esteem. It stems from a fear of abandonment and other things but it is not uncommon and not one side is to blame for it exclusively.

BUT....none of this dynamic. Not one single grain of it, equals a motive to murder.

Just like Betty Broderick. That's an old story too. Man leaves wife during mid life for a younger model. Well, yeah, that sucks. And it's also not a motive to murder. It's anger inducing yes. It's disappointing and devastating to some women. But a motive to murder? No. Never.

It's like this defense is saying "oh your feelings got hurt? Then it's ok to slaughter that person". That's basically what they are saying.

And really, how much do we blame Travis? She bent over backward to demonstrate to him she was ok with their arrangement. This is all over that tape. How is HE made to blame for this?

So, finally, she insults every true domestic abuse victim with this defense but also every woman who dug deep within herself and found the strength to pull herself out of a dynamic she actively engaged in putting herself in, cut her losses and stepped in to her future learning something about holding one's head up high and living a life that creates that "best revenge".

I don't care how many wooden spoons she claims from her childhood or naughty fantasies he served up. This defense adds up to one big fat insult to women.

And of course, it would be a man steering that ship right along with this sociopathic murderer.

Shame on them all.

KUDO'S TO ALL YOU SAID!!

I too, "have navigated the world of dating complete with "bad boys" and all the dynamics we've survived and thrived through".

I, sadly, had mistaken sex for possible "relationships" in the past, realized it was not "going anywhere", got my feelings hurt and moved on. Jodi could not move on and continued to have "consensual" sex with him. Her feeling were hurt but instead of moving on killed him.
 
Is there any corroborating evidence anywhere suggesting Travis asked Jodi for money, for any reason? Other than purchase of his car?

I've been wondering the same. If there is, we haven't seen it yet. I know one of her checks to him says "Auto" in the memo line. I'm sure it was all for the car and paying him back for airfare, etc. towards the trips they had taken together.

Even if JM did come back with TA's bank statements showing he never overdrafted, etc. I'm sure JA would spin it and say he must've lied to her, blah blah blah.

I don't think she'll admit to any lies, even when JM gives proof. I am fully expecting her to say the reason she lied in the beginning and gave so many stories is because she was still being "loyal to Travis" and didn't want to betray him by outing all his secrets. I read somewhere that JA's sister said she lied because she didn't want to tell everyone what a "monster" Travis was. Uh-huh...
 
Welcome!! :seeya: I've been on here for a few weeks now and it's really addicting! It is such a great group of people and the discussions are nonstop!

I've not thanked you and PASA for being my lifelines last week while I was out of town working. I so appreciated all the updates....:tyou:
 
Hi NY

In her warped mind I think she was continuing to cater to and encourage his fantasies. She figured if she did this after awhile he would be afraid to marry a "nice" Morman girl because he would not be able to act out those sexual situations which Jodi allowed him to do. Remember in the tape she wonders about the people they will eventually marry, afraid they would never be kinky enough....planting the seed in his mind that maybe he should consider her "marriage material" after all.

IMO
Could very well be. Also weren't both of them were getting rather old by Mormon standards? With families in the faith that I have encountered, the young men marry while in college since they've already gone on their mission after graduating high school. And the young women in their early 20s. By this standard, JA must really have believed she could snare Travis as he was already 30 and unmarried, which would put him several years older than most unmarried Mormon women.

MOO
 
Juan Martinez gave the impression that Jodi will be claiming that Travis cut his own throat to complete a Mormon ritual, when he asked the ME about "hesitation marks" to his throat. This led to a discussion about suicide by throat slashing.

Really?

I thought he was asking the lovely ME, Dr. Kevin Horn about hesitation marks as a matter of being abundantly thorough - having the ME testify to the complete absence of hesitation marks so that the jury wouldn't need to take suicide into account at all.

Having not gotten that asked and answered, it could have been something the jurors would have to consider and figure out on their own.

Juan Martinez eliminated that obstacle with his usual precision.

That's how I took it, anyway! :)
 
I wait with baited breath to have Juan point out the "Iowa" (or was it "idaho") note on one of the checks.

I am pretty sure that Jodi could have been paying him for one of the trips she went on with him. (see money thread for more details)

Interesting. I think it's that same check that I read as Auto. It's hard to read, but I could see it saying Iowa or Idaho too. Hmm... Either way, I doubt he was borrowing money from her.

Oh and the story about how he got furious with her because she said she couldn't loan him any more money? :banghead: I don't buy it. I could see her asking him for money and then getting mad that he wouldn't give it to her.
 
I wait with baited breath to have Juan point out the "Iowa" (or was it "idaho") note on one of the checks.

I am pretty sure that Jodi could have been paying him for one of the trips she went on with him. (see money thread for more details)

I read here on a previous thread, if its the 699 check, that it says "airfare". Not a loan, to pay him for a trip.
 
KUDO'S TO ALL YOU SAID!!

I too, "have navigated the world of dating complete with "bad boys" and all the dynamics we've survived and thrived through".

I, sadly, had mistaken sex for possible "relationships" in the past, realized it was not "going anywhere", got my feelings hurt and moved on. Jodi could not move on and continued to have "consensual" sex with him. Her feeling were hurt but instead of moving on killed him.

Using that very common dynamic as an excuse for premeditated MURDER is such a disgrace. And any "expert" who sell$ their $oul to try and $ell that to this jury is also disgraceful.

This was clearly "the last thing" they could come up with to try and defend her. But why is it ok that "the last thing" has to disparage and demean the victim?

I just can't wait to see JM remind this jury how this is down a long list of excuses and lies she's fabricated. This time she's just aided and abetted by some profe$$ionals. :furious:
 
I was wondering about that, too. JA must have been covered in blood. IMO, she was naked when it happened, but still, there would have been a need for her to clean herself.

One of the photos of Travis during the massacre shows a pant leg and covered foot. It appears to be athletic pants with stripes down the leg.

MOO
 
Willing to bet! The 45 minute phone call! She was teasing him! Telling him what she would do to him sexually! She was prepping him!

Interesting that the calls are 'middle of the night' I think she learnt that one from experience ... 'If I get him in the middle of the night he'll talk to me'. I bet if she tried calling Travis at a reasonable hour he was usually alert enough to just ignore it or to fob her off quickly. However, in the middle of the night his defences were down and she could keep him on the phone a little.

And really how pathetic was the so called 'sex tape' heaps of 'remember the time we' discussion .. the only times he perks up at all is for sex talk, other than than he is completely bored of her and the whole thing, he's trying to get off the phone right from the beginning and she just refuses to take the hint.

Another thing: it seems it was Travis' friends that effectively ended the official relationship between the two .. people took him aside and said 'Dude...' right when Jodi would have thought she was really making headway...I'm thinking he cited tyranny of distance as the reason for the split which is why she moved to Mesa ... Then she gets down there to an icy reception (particularly from his friends). I wonder if the penny dropped then, that the friends didn't think she was good enough for him. Anyway, by the time he wanted to keep their friendship secret she definitely knew.

Travis probably thought that because she was so sexually aggressive and willing to keep going in a sex based relationship that she was 'just like a man' in regards to sex .. he didn't know that so called 's**ts' are no different from other women, they get hurt the same (worse) and are if anything are MORE vulnerable. Jodi was using sex because she thought a way to a mans heart was through his d*** .. WRONG!!
 
Interesting. I think it's that same check that I read as Auto. It's hard to read, but I could see it saying Iowa or Idaho too. Hmm... Either way, I doubt he was borrowing money from her.

Oh and the story about how he got furious with her because she said she couldn't loan him any more money? :banghead: I don't buy it. I could see her asking him for money and then getting mad that he wouldn't give it to her.

Um, who "loans" someone money and takes the time to put something in the memo line that is not the word "LOAN"?

How does this Nurmi pull this stuff out with a straight face? Seriously!
 
The ME said he could not determine from which side the cut was started.

Then why the "hesitation" wound theory (or finding)??? Wouldn't those wounds be on the side the knife wound originated??
 
Willing to bet! The 45 minute phone call! She was teasing him! Telling him what she would do to him sexually! She was prepping him!

Could be, she was trying, I'm sure.

Now that is the day she was driving from NoCal down to SoCal, right?

And June 3, two very short phone calls mid-day. Don't you think they would have talked more that day, for him to be begging her, or convincing her to come see him?

It seems odd to me that they talked a long time on June 2, then barely on June 3, even though it would be late night on the 3rd for her to be driving from SoCal to AZ. For her to roll in to Mesa about 4am on the 4th....IF WE ARE TO BELIEVE HER.

I am really questioning, like a few other posters have mentioned, whether she really did arrive in the middle of the night on June 4th. AFAIK, it's only her word that she did. If not, what was she doing, and where was she?
 
Does Arizona actually put people to death? Are they like TX (a lot!) or CA (almost never), or somewhere in between?
 
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