Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[UESwifey]

I voted that he was stabbed, throat slashed and then shot.

I believe she had him sit on the floor for that last shot so he would be at his most vulnerable - he obliged because he was over the whole thing and just wanted her to be done and leave. (I am also one who believes he looks irritated in that last picture, not scared.) Once he was on the ground she began stabbing him. The reason I believe she didn't go for the "easier" kill and shoot him first is because she knew that gun would be very suspicious and could implicate her quicker if she used it rather than a knife in the house because of the "burglary" at her grandparents house. The gun was a back-up and she never intended to use it first.

Once she stabbed him and he was over the sink, he tried to get down the hall only to have his throat slashed and then dragged back to the shower.

I believe while she was dragging him back he was already dead, however, his body may have convulsed causing JA to freak out that he may still be alive - the final shot to the head was her last ditch effort to be done with it.

JMOO :seeya:

 

[LambChop]

No I am more familiar with guns. I am aware that a .25 caliber is the least powerful round and people have survived serious gunshot wounds to the head from much larger calibers.

There are actually many stories of people being shot in the head by a .25 and not being rendered unconscious due to the lack of hydro static shock.

There are many instances of people walking into the ER with arrows through their brain, gun shots, other projectiles, etc.

People can be very resilient. Especially healthy young men. It's not like in the movies where the gun goes bang and they fall dead.

A wound through the sinus would be painful but not debilitating. If it did pass through the very front of the brain it MAY have rendered him unconscious but not definitely so. Very possible he was conscious after that wound and the physical evidence supports that.

I can see no other explanation for the aspirated blood at the sink.

If she stabbed him first I doubt she would have allowed him to just go to the sink, but the blood drops and aspiration shows he did do that if only for a few seconds.

Jodi had 62 seconds to stab him 29 times, cut his throat and shoot him. If she stabbed him first I don't see how she could have stopped him from heading for the sink. Those 9 stab wounds to his back came at some point in those 62 seconds. We know he was at the sink because of the blood splatter which would have only come from the front of his body. So it was either from the shot or the stab to the chest. Personally I think he did push her to the ground to get away from her and that may be why he has slashes to his stomach area. jmo

 

[Captain86]

Double Post. Comp froze.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

No I am more familiar with guns. I am aware that a .25 caliber is the least powerful round and people have survived serious gunshot wounds to the head from much larger calibers.

There are actually many stories of people being shot in the head by a .25 and not being rendered unconscious due to the lack of hydro static shock.

There are many instances of people walking into the ER with arrows through their brain, gun shots, other projectiles, etc.

People can be very resilient. Especially healthy young men. It's not like in the movies where the gun goes bang and they fall dead.

A wound through the sinus would be painful but not debilitating. If it did pass through the very front of the brain it MAY have rendered him unconscious but not definitely so. Very possible he was conscious after that wound and the physical evidence supports that.

I can see no other explanation for the aspirated blood at the sink.

If she stabbed him first I doubt she would have allowed him to just go to the sink, but the blood drops and aspiration shows he did do that if only for a few seconds.

Why do you think that the ME went with the scenario of him being shot last? It is a lot easier for people to swallow the idea that the shot came first, so why go out of his way to make to make it sound like it happened in any other way unless it actually happened that way? Do you think he's incompetent? Would he not consider everything you wrote here?

I am not asking these questions to be snarky, by the way. I'm actually quite curious to why people are discounting his findings. I don't think that people are infallible, mistakes can be made, but I guess I haven't seen anything that shows why it could not have happened the way he states.

As far as the aspiration, he had a internal injuries, couldn't that cause one to aspirate?

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Well, yes. But she still took one hell of a chance with the roomie due home shortly. And as she attempted to cover her tracks with the rental car and cell phone shut off, it is still baffling.

Therefore, do you think it possible that:

1. While he was getting into the shower, she snooped in his cell phone and heard something that enraged her ( a sweet 'looking forward to Cancun" voice-message from Mimi?)
OR
2. She was under the influence of drugs/alcohol which rendered her oblivious to room mate's impending return?

lol Definitely not number 2. It could have been as simple as she didn't know that it was already 5:30. It could be that she, again with her narcissism, thought that it would all be confined to he bathroom/shower and she would be able to wash up quickly. I mean, we've all underestimated things before, right? Not so uncommon, in and of itself.

 

[SMK]

lol Definitely not number 2. It could have been as simple as she didn't know that it was already 5:30. It could be that she, again with her narcissism, thought that it would all be confined to he bathroom/shower and she would be able to wash up quickly. I mean, we've all underestimated things before, right? Not so uncommon, in and of itself.

I suppose so. With a murder which one did not want to be caught at, though, you would think time would be of the essence. Of course her state of mind was not normal. Why not #2 , by the way? Maybe to "hype herself up" for the deed?

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Another thing which made me always go with the gun first theory: The look on Travis' face in his last live photo:

To me, it is the face of a man who cannot believe what he is seeing. If he was seeing a gun pointed at him (and perhaps as per my other theory, even a Jodi covered with a ski mask) this would be understandable.

If a knife, I think he likely would have said, "WTF? put that down, that's not funny" - thinking she was trying to get kinky or something. Just the way it seems to me.....I actually once had a drunk friend point a knife at me, and this was my reaction, which made him quit horsing around.

Also: Even in the shower, a man can grab a woman's little wrist and wrench it. In arm power they were not matched.

We can only speculate on what he was thinking in that photo. Any shocked look on his face could be down to him being shocked that she was there for all we know. So, we definitely can't say for sure that he saw some kind of weapon in her hand. If we can't say that, we can't say that he knew prior to being stabbed that she was holding a knife.

 

[Captain86]

I'm talking specifically about this case.

If she used the knife first to kill him, it looks more like a spur of the moment event instead of a premeditated event.

I really think this is pretty simple to understand. If someone attacks me and I grab a knife and stab him to death while protecting myself, is that murder one? It shouldn't be.

IMO

1) Did she intend to kill Travis?

2) Did she travel to his house to carry out her plan to kill him?

 

[simplesimon]

http://www.myspace.com/jodiarias.

I am surprised this is still active, thought it was interesting to revisit, there are some comments from Travis...so sad.
I thought her " inspirational quotes" were again her trying to seem more inteligent .....and she actually quotes Travis....plus the album dedicated to him ...:sick::sick::sick::sick::sick:

 

[SMK]

1) Did she intend to kill Travis?

2) Did she travel to his house to carry out her plan to kill him?

I believe the answers to 1 and 2 are yes, and all she did prior to the trip point in that direction. I do think the knife part (not the gun aspect) may have been unplanned, or at least did not go according to plan, hence the chaos and mess that ensued.

 

[SMK]

http://www.myspace.com/jodiarias.

I am surprised this is still active, thought it was interesting to revisit, there are some comments from Travis...so sad.
I thought her " inspirational quotes" were again her trying to seem more inteligent .....and she actually quotes Travis....plus the album dedicated to him ...:sick::sick::sick::sick::sick:

Yes, I came upon that last night and felt sad to see Travis "talking" there. On his own myspace as well, there are comments to him from friends , prior to his murder. and myspace now lists him as "age 35" which he would be now.

ETA: What gall with that "In Loving Memory" album. How soon did she post this after June 4? Cannot find a post date on it...

 

[BW0000]

Actually the 'gun first' is supported by the physical evidence.

The ME said the brain was too decomposed to see any wound from the bullet, but even if it was it would have been minor due to the trajectory.

The bullet went through his sinus and ended up in his cheek at an angle consistent with Jodi standing over him as he sat in the shower.

.25's jam easily, especially when fired by inexperienced shooters (they tend to 'limp wrist' it which doesn't allow the next shell to cycle into the firing chamber)

While he may have been stunned and flopping around after she shot him, she may have panicked and tried to shoot again. Unable to do so she went for her knife (perhaps in her purse) - meanwhile Travis is able to stumble to the sink area, aspirating and dripping blood from his nose and mouth.

She attacks from behind, stabbing his head and back. He goes down and tries to fend her off - hence the blood spatter around the toilet.

He tries to get away; it was probably a violent struggle with her stabbing wildly - he makes it down the hall, probably on all fours now or dragging himself and she slits his throat.

two issues:

lack of blood from the head wound

shell casing on top of the blood

first: blood from head wound, bleeding would be mostly internal and out nose and mouth plus she showered his dead body, possibly cleaning off most of blood on forehead and in the wound track post mortem

As for the shell casing, it could have been knocked onto the blood pool by Jodi's cleanup or perhaps the pooling blood welled up underneath it kind of 'floating the boat' - the location of the casing is consistent with shooting in the shower (they eject back and to the right, exactly where the casing was found)

I think she thought she would kill him in the shower and it would be neat and easy. She didn't figure on the gun jamming or Travis being strong enough to put up such a fight.

The "disorganized" crime scene is due solely to Travis's resilience and fighting back, not an indication she didn't plan this.

Thanks teledude

At first I was a gun first believer for all the practical reasons, GP gun missing, 60-70 lbs lighter, female vs male, less messy, angle etc but I don't really know. Captain86 and others make good points.

There was blood pooling by the room divider that separates the toilet room and the scales from a gravity wound according to the blood expert. Just asking. Can a head wound from a shot to the frontal lobe bleed at the sink and cause this pooling by the toilet and not show hemorrhaging and blood in the cranium? I'm kinda drifting away from gun first as well as taking in consideration the "physical evidence").

I'll throw another scenario out just to say it. Could the .25 caliber misfire first and the viper switched to the knife (which I think she brought) and figured the gun out after the fact. Maybe her linebacker story and chase is somewhat true.

You are right about the .25. On the first page of Youtube searching this weapon, no less than 3 videos spoke of misfiring.

I don't think TA's throat was slashed in the foot picture despite the blood flow. Here left foot is still on tile and not the bedroom carpet. TA is on his back with head and arm up and if his neck was slashed along with the bathroom injuries, I doubt he could have made it to the carpet area. I'm trying to work backwards and understand, within reason, what TA could have endured. I'm sure she taunted him every step of the way.

If you saw the right hand finger injury on her index finger which she claim happen June 1, (correct if wrong) could she have been holding the .25 caliber in such a way with her right hand when she brought the slide back to chamber the round, it caused this injury in practicing with the gun? Perhaps raking the finger.

Appreciate your post

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Yes, I came upon that last night and felt sad to see Travis "talking" there. On his own myspace as well, there are comments to him from friends , prior to his murder. and myspace now lists him as "age 35" which he would be now.

ETA: What gall with that "In Loving Memory" album. How soon did she post this after June 4? Cannot find a post date on it...

She made the album June 13th. You can see the dates before you click to go into the album.

 

[SMK]

I voted that he was stabbed, throat slashed and then shot.

I believe she had him sit on the floor for that last shot so he would be at his most vulnerable - he obliged because he was over the whole thing and just wanted her to be done and leave. (I am also one who believes he looks irritated in that last picture, not scared.)

Once he was on the ground she began stabbing him. The reason I believe she didn't go for the "easier" kill and shoot him first is because she knew that gun would be very suspicious and could implicate her quicker if she used it rather than a knife in the house because of the "burglary" at her grandparents house. The gun was a back-up and she never intended to use it first.

Once she stabbed him and he was over the sink, he tried to get down the hall only to have his throat slashed and then dragged back to the shower.

I believe while she was dragging him back he was already dead, however, his body may have convulsed causing JA to freak out that he may still be alive - the final shot to the head was her last ditch effort to be done with it.

JMOO :seeya:

Interesting as we view that last pic knowing it was the last and knowing what came after - yet we do not really know exactly what he knew, saw, or was thinking at that point.

The gun as "mere back up with no intention of use" though, is not as clear. If she knew she needed back up, she must have imagined trouble, and if she imagined trouble, as they say "forewarned is forearmed" and the gun would have been present.

I cannot imagine sitting down on a shower drain as sexy. I feel he was somehow made to sit down.

 

[SMK]

She made the album June 13th. You can see the dates before you click to go into the album.

Thanks. so 4 days after.....am surprised she didn't slip and post it BEFORE he was found...:floorlaugh:

I suppose at this point she idiotically believed it would make her look like a grieving gf. ---

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Thanks. so 4 days after.....am surprised she didn't slip and post it BEFORE he was found...:floorlaugh:

I suppose at this point she idiotically believed it would make her look like a grieving gf. ---

Oh, now that would have been funny. lol.

 

[Captain86]

first: blood from head wound, bleeding would be mostly internal and out nose and mouth plus she showered his dead body, possibly cleaning off most of blood on forehead and in the wound track post mortem

As for the shell casing, it could have been knocked onto the blood pool by Jodi's cleanup or perhaps the pooling blood welled up underneath it kind of 'floating the boat' - the location of the casing is consistent with shooting in the shower (they eject back and to the right, exactly where the casing was found)

1) Since his head was turned to the right and the chin tucked once he was back in the shower, the water would not have entered the wound path to clean it out. What about all the blood that should be there from the blood vessels and the linings of the skull that were punctured when the bullet passed through, not just the path through the brain.

2) With all the blood on the floor, wouldn't you expect the casing to have more blood on it than it seems to have, if it had been kicked, moved, or knocked around?

 

[simplesimon]

Was the knife the one in the dishwasher? Was that ever verified?

 

[weather_lady]

Was the knife the one in the dishwasher? Was that ever verified?

No. One of the law enforcement witnesses testified (I'm sure someone will remember who it was, and post it) that none of the knives in the house could be matched to the crime. I think JA told the dishwasher story in an attempt to make it look like the knife originated and stayed in the house (rather than being brought by her). She knows that no knives were found to be missing, so she's got to try and make the jury believe that she used one from the house and that it was still there when she left. It's much harder to say a stabbing wasn't premeditated when you brought the knife with you!

Tougher still to say it wasn't premeditated when you brought a gun, a knife, and possibly a rope! All she needs now to seal her fate is for JM to produce a Walmart receipt showing she also bought a lead pipe, a candlestick and a wrench!

 

[simplesimon]

Seriously doc Sham-uels? Fight or flight? Well I agree it did kick in when Travis was fighting for his life! me thinks she had no idea it would be this hard to kill him.At that point she was fighting , too bad she was the only one that was armed! And then the FLIGHT mode kicked in as in I have to get the ef outta here!