Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[eileenhawkeye]

Another question regarding my post above. Is anyone familiar with the family dynamic after the murder of JB? I'm sure if what I posted above is close to the truth, then there would be no way that JR would allow PR much alone time with BR. Was BR sent off to private school after. There certainly are not many pictures of BR circulating between ages 9 and 20. Was he at home or away? This would be most telling.

The family left Boulder at the end of the 1996-1997 school year, so it looks like Burke finished up fourth grade at High Peaks. Then, he attended the Lovett School in Atlanta until his senior year of HS, which he spent at Charlevoix High School. None of these schools were boarding schools.

I don't think it's that unusual that we haven't seen many pictures of Burke. How would we? It's not hard to keep private photos from "leaking" especially before social media.

 

[chlban]

.

She can barely hold it together. If this is the case, perhaps she had been drinking most of Christmas day. By the time they got home, she might have taken a pain med and been really looped. JB may not have been on her best behaviour and wired up as kids get on Christmas day. Now, take a wired kid, a really drunk mother, and put them together. The ransom note contents and the writing of it was thought of and written by a drunk PR which is why they can't 100% say she wrote

That is a really interesting theory. I have always thought the RN had Patsy all over it, not just because of similar penmanship but based on the drama of the Note. But, even for her, it's overdone. But a drunk or otherwise impaired Patsy? That really makes a lot of sense. We have all seen in interviews after the murder that she was obviously "medicated" but probably tended to write it off as an after effect of the death. Maybe not though.

 

[gramcracker]

the pediatrician supplied PR with sedative/anxiety meds after the discovery and I guess that was a professional courtesy and understandable under the circumstances. but I have wondered if it was also business as usual, given the numerous times JB was taken to see that Dr

Priscilla White told Arndt that neither of the Rs were big drinkers and that they had one or two glasses of wine with their meal at the party that night (but that was early on, before the Ws were thrown under the bus)

this is interesting. their July '97 press release asking that the public reflect on these behavioral clues in case someone they knew was the perp:

conflict with a female
conflict with family
financial stress
marital problems
legal problems
employment problems
break-up of important relationship
job loss
hostility/anger toward the Rs
depression
using drugs or alcohol

 

[otg]

Where did you read that? I thought the photoshoots were done for JonBenet's pageant portfolio or just for fun (to decorate the house or to show off to people). Also, do you remember more about the company layout that JBR and Burke were featured on?

I've looked to try and find a reference to the information, but haven't been able to find it . I'm sure I remember reading it at some time, but without a current link, you can discount what I said if you choose. As I recall though, the picture that was used in a children's clothes catalog (and I don't recall the name of the company -- it wasn't a big one like Sears or something) was this one:

 

[Cailin Rua]

That is a nice, normal picture.

 

[dodie20]

That is what I noticed right away as well, were the I's and the me's. My life has been a living hell ( as this whole mess is such a huge inconvenience). One comment below the video a poster noticed her checking her watch. As if she has somewhere more important to be. The LE were in so much trouble for only focusing on the family, but after watching that video, it is no wonder. It must have been so frustrating when these guys were told to look outside the family.

Has anyone ever considered that PR was half in the bag during the interview with LE. The reason she keeps squirming and looking at her watch and slurring her words is she needs another drink. In my opinion, I think PR was an alcoholic and/or addicted to morphine, the family secret, which may be why she keeps losing her composure and patience during the interview. She can barely hold it together. If this is the case, perhaps she had been drinking most of Christmas day. By the time they got home, she might have taken a pain med and been really looped. JB may not have been on her best behaviour and wired up as kids get on Christmas day. Now, take a wired kid, a really drunk mother, and put them together. The ransom note contents and the writing of it was thought of and written by a drunk PR which is why they can't 100% say she wrote it. Too bad they can never get another piece of writing from her after she has had a few. JR did what he had to do. His wife had stage 4 cancer. He knew she wasn't long for this world, and has to this day covered for his wife. Perhaps she didn't remember what happened to JB. But he knows. Yes, perhaps PR's little secret is the reason JB was killed. JMO. It is almost honourable the way he covered for his wife, if it weren't so horrific.

Kind of ironic that you mention this, because on the 911, PR most definitely slurs a few words. If she had been drinking the night before, ok, but unless someone is extremely drunk, a few house sleep is usually enough to sober him up enough to speak clearly. I've never read a word about PR over indulging at the party, so IMO, if she was slurring her words because of alcohol, it was because of what she drank after she got home and then Not sleeping it off. I've never read if investigators saw evidence of drinking...bottles or glasses left out, or if PR smelled like alcohol. But, if they did, it's just one more indicator that PR didn't go to bed that night. Moo.

 

[Eldee]

From my experience, no one unless they are watching your every move, can say for certain how much someone is drinking. Alcoholics are pretty shrewd at sneaking drinks. There are a few people I know, that are perfectly fine when you first get to their house, or when they come over, yet, by 11:00 pm they are pretty drunk, yet you really never noticed how much they had, or how much rye was mixed with the coke. And they sure as heck won't tell you. Taking pain medication and drinking reacts differently with everyone, especially on small women. When I heard the 911 call, I too thought she didn't sound sober. Then when I watched the interrogation video it started making sense that perhaps she did have a drinking problem. Here you have the most horrific thing to ever have happen to you in your life and you appear drunk both times. Surely, you would want to be fully functioning when calling 911 or even if that is not possible, you would make sure you in your best form for a police interrogation in the middle of the day.
I noticed that the longer the interrogation went the more fidgety and angry ( even though she was trying so hard to contain herself ) then she started pounding the table. It just didn't seem all that normal to me for a mother that had just lost her child. Not one single tear she just seemed annoyed. Certainly not the same women you see in all of the press interviews where she doesn't say much.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Patsy Ramsey Interrogation with Tom Haney and Trip DeMuth - YouTube

Is this real?? I thought there would be more views than this.

Good grief she's drunk as a skunk.

Also, a massive Freudian slip.

She said (paraphrased) Go find the person who did this, they're out here walking around.

Not, they're out THERE walking around, which would be normal language...if the person is unknown, so is their whereabouts.

HERE means, that person is present, here and now, in this room/building/location.

:sick:

 

[SapphireSteel]

From my experience, no one unless they are watching your every move, can say for certain how much someone is drinking. Alcoholics are pretty shrewd at sneaking drinks. There are a few people I know, that are perfectly fine when you first get to their house, or when they come over, yet, by 11:00 pm they are pretty drunk, yet you really never noticed how much they had, or how much rye was mixed with the coke. And they sure as heck won't tell you. Taking pain medication and drinking reacts differently with everyone, especially on small women. When I heard the 911 call, I too thought she didn't sound sober. Then when I watched the interrogation video it started making sense that perhaps she did have a drinking problem. Here you have the most horrific thing to ever have happen to you in your life and you appear drunk both times. Surely, you would want to be fully functioning when calling 911 or even if that is not possible, you would make sure you in your best form for a police interrogation in the middle of the day.
I noticed that the longer the interrogation went the more fidgety and angry ( even though she was trying so hard to contain herself ) then she started pounding the table. It just didn't seem all that normal to me for a mother that had just lost her child. Not one single tear she just seemed annoyed. Certainly not the same women you see in all of the press interviews where she doesn't say much.

Most drunks would go pour a drink and let their husband deal with it.

Which does occur to me as odd now that I think of it - why did P call not J?

He was the CEO, the man of the house, we know he was there speaking to her "hon, we have to". Why didn't he make the call?

:dunno:

 

[gramcracker]

my mom was a big drinker until she discovered vicodin/oxycontin for her neuropathy. which I learned when I went to her house one day and she was fine and then in no time she was slurring her words but hadn't left her chair. at first I thought it was a small stroke because I knew she wasn't boozing, but my hinky meter was pegged so I checked the linen cupboard in her room and found the pill bottles. they also prescribed neurontin and she filled it every month but didn't take it because it was "just candy." I began to realize she was taking the v/o too often and tried to talk to her about it, so she started stashing them around the house so no one would hear the rattle of the pill bottles. I'd find them under the cotton balls in her manicure basket, in the cuffs of her rolled-up sleeves, inside the book cover on her TV guide, etc. when I took her somewhere she'd be OK for awhile and then all of a sudden get crabby, antsy, impatient and want to go home because it was "time" to take something

 

[Eldee]

Here is the way I feel. The woman PR had stage 4 ovarian cancer and in my opinion, was dying. Most likely, she was in constant pain. Her daughter was dead, The grand jury had enough evidence to charge her but the DA wouldn't press charges. Why? Maybe he figured she was already in jail. Broken and dying. Where would it get him. A long drawn out and expensive media circus of a court case and it was doubtful the accused would even have lived long enough to finish the trial. The undying devotion JR has shown over the years to honour his dead wife and to not smear her memory is, I feel honourable. He had a decision to make that night. I'll bet there isn't one alone moment that he isn't thinking about all of the what if's. His life is ruined, and he will pay for this cover up for the rest of his life. He did what he had to do to keep his family from exploding further.

Arresting or charging anyone at this point in time, simply is a waste of courtroom time. A lot of authors and reporters and newspapers have made a lot of money over a little girl losing her life. I fail to understand the sexual aspects of this case. I don't think the medical examiner got it right, like a lot of things about this case. I think PR in her haze, wanted to make it look like she was raped to cover her tracks after she had smacked her too hard and JB went down and cracked her skull. PR would have freaked out telling JB to wake up and the rest is history. Was JR even home that night? Or did he walk into the house and come across this horror? When I watched the interrogation video, it made me think he was having an affair. That is one pathetic scary lady on there.IMO. So if he wasn't home when this happened and she wrote the RN ( he wouldn't then know about it) which makes sense to me. IMO. Out of guilt, not necessarily out of love, he covered up what she had done. Most likely to this day, PR had no idea what she did to her daughter. Perhaps JR snuck back in the house to find his daughter dead on the kitchen floor and his wife passed out on the couch.

We'll never know, but from what I have learned over the years, alcohol and drugs make for a lethal combination and very often you have little or no memory of the events of the night before.

 

[daisymae]

The family left Boulder at the end of the 1996-1997 school year, so it looks like Burke finished up fourth grade at High Peaks. Then, he attended the Lovett School in Atlanta until his senior year of HS, which he spent at Charlevoix High School. None of these schools were boarding schools.

I don't think it's that unusual that we haven't seen many pictures of Burke. How would we? It's not hard to keep private photos from "leaking" especially before social media.

The Lovett school in Atlanta is in a very posh area and is one of the elite and prestigious private schools there. FYI

 

[Linda7NJ]

Here is the way I feel. The woman PR had stage 4 ovarian cancer and in my opinion, was dying. Most likely, she was in constant pain. Her daughter was dead, The grand jury had enough evidence to charge her but the DA wouldn't press charges. Why? Maybe he figured she was already in jail. Broken and dying. Where would it get him. A long drawn out and expensive media circus of a court case and it was doubtful the accused would even have lived long enough to finish the trial. The undying devotion JR has shown over the years to honour his dead wife and to not smear her memory is, I feel honourable. He had a decision to make that night. I'll bet there isn't one alone moment that he isn't thinking about all of the what if's. His life is ruined, and he will pay for this cover up for the rest of his life. He did what he had to do to keep his family from exploding further.

Arresting or charging anyone at this point in time, simply is a waste of courtroom time. A lot of authors and reporters and newspapers have made a lot of money over a little girl losing her life. I fail to understand the sexual aspects of this case. I don't think the medical examiner got it right, like a lot of things about this case. I think PR in her haze, wanted to make it look like she was raped to cover her tracks after she had smacked her too hard and JB went down and cracked her skull. PR would have freaked out telling JB to wake up and the rest is history. Was JR even home that night? Or did he walk into the house and come across this horror? When I watched the interrogation video, it made me think he was having an affair. That is one pathetic scary lady on there.IMO. So if he wasn't home when this happened and she wrote the RN ( he wouldn't then know about it) which makes sense to me. IMO. Out of guilt, not necessarily out of love, he covered up what she had done. Most likely to this day, PR had no idea what she did to her daughter. Perhaps JR snuck back in the house to find his daughter dead on the kitchen floor and his wife passed out on the couch.

We'll never know, but from what I have learned over the years, alcohol and drugs make for a lethal combination and very often you have little or no memory of the events of the night before.

I do not think Patsy was given a free sympathy pass, or a budget conscious one either.


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[fedfan4life]

There is NOTHING honorable about being a supposed man of God while @ the same time refusing to take responsibilty for the events which took place that caused the death of your 6 years old child. You cannot have it boths ways - saved and forgiven by Christ, yet be complicit it the cover-up of a homicide.

 

[Linda7NJ]

There is NOTHING honorable about being a supposed man of God while @ the same time refusing to take responsibilty for the events which took place that caused the death of your 6 years old child. You cannot have it boths ways - saved and forgiven by Christ, yet be complicit it the cover-up of a homicide.

Who wants or needs it both ways?




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[chlban]

[

QUOTE=Eldee;9887160]Here is the way I feel. dead on the kitchen floor and his wife passed out on the couch.

We'll never know, but from what I have learned over the years, alcohol and drugs make for a lethal combination and very often you have little or no memory of the events of the night before.

[/QUOTE]

I have warmed to the theory that Patsy was probalby impaired that night. That goes along way to explaining that complelely crazy (even for Patsy) RN.
Her overdramatic nature in overdrive.

I don't however, think she was a drunk. I have known people with prescription drug addictions and I think it is much more likely that was her issue. It is much easer to hide and somehow more respectable in the addicts mind. I mean, they are ohly taking prescription drugs after all. So what if they take 10 times the prescribed dose? It's not like they are drunks after all.

It also explains how she was able to function during that CNN interview. We all knew she was heavily drugged for that and I know I just wrote that off to being drugged as a result of her grief. But last night my back was really bothering me and I took a prescribed muscle relaxant for the first time in over a year. This is a prescription that my DR. actually has told me I could take at work because, according to him, it doesn't make you drowsy. I took it downstairs and less than 1/2 hour later I tripped on the stair and was downright loopy. I was asleep 2 minutes after my head hit the pillow.

If your body is not accustomed to drugs I doubt you would take sedatives ad then sit for a televised interview. My bet is Patsy was almost certainly an addict and likely impaired that night. If she's like the prescription drug addict I knew, she had something to perk her up after the "incident" too, which probably explains how she was up all night.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

After the head blow happened, if the R's were told (just pretend this is feasible) that they would not be arrested for JonBenet's death, would they still go through with the cover-up? I think the cover-up was done to protect their reputation more than in fear of any jail-time. Even if the case didn't go anywhere in the media or court system, everyone who knew the Ramseys or knew of them (this sort of gossip spreads) would know they accidentally killed their child.

Now, I wonder...is covering up your child's death to protect your reputation...is that really limited to the Ramseys? Because I read a lot of "Mommy Blogs" where this women show up their picture-perfect families, like a '50s TV show, etc...plus the whole "Keeping Up With Joneses" concept. I wonder if there are more families out there than we think who if someone similar happened to them would cover it up because they don't want to be known as the parent who killed their kid (even if it wasn't intentional).

 

[lawstudent]

Here is the way I feel. The woman PR had stage 4 ovarian cancer and in my opinion, was dying. Most likely, she was in constant pain. Her daughter was dead, The grand jury had enough evidence to charge her but the DA wouldn't press charges. Why? Maybe he figured she was already in jail. Broken and dying. Where would it get him. A long drawn out and expensive media circus of a court case and it was doubtful the accused would even have lived long enough to finish the trial. The undying devotion JR has shown over the years to honour his dead wife and to not smear her memory is, I feel honourable. He had a decision to make that night. I'll bet there isn't one alone moment that he isn't thinking about all of the what if's. His life is ruined, and he will pay for this cover up for the rest of his life. He did what he had to do to keep his family from exploding further.

Arresting or charging anyone at this point in time, simply is a waste of courtroom time. A lot of authors and reporters and newspapers have made a lot of money over a little girl losing her life. I fail to understand the sexual aspects of this case. I don't think the medical examiner got it right, like a lot of things about this case. I think PR in her haze, wanted to make it look like she was raped to cover her tracks after she had smacked her too hard and JB went down and cracked her skull. PR would have freaked out telling JB to wake up and the rest is history. Was JR even home that night? Or did he walk into the house and come across this horror? When I watched the interrogation video, it made me think he was having an affair. That is one pathetic scary lady on there.IMO. So if he wasn't home when this happened and she wrote the RN ( he wouldn't then know about it) which makes sense to me. IMO. Out of guilt, not necessarily out of love, he covered up what she had done. Most likely to this day, PR had no idea what she did to her daughter. Perhaps JR snuck back in the house to find his daughter dead on the kitchen floor and his wife passed out on the couch.

We'll never know, but from what I have learned over the years, alcohol and drugs make for a lethal combination and very often you have little or no memory of the events of the night before.

I agree with a lot of this, particularly that the sexual aspects don't add up, but her head bash is so extreme I can't see it coming from a push. I mean maybe someone lost it and swung her around into something - I don't know. But I find it hard to see it as truly accidental. Possible, not likely.

Re: prescription drugs, I don't know. I have a high tolerance, and I'm a very tiny person. I have horrible insomnia and have sedatives for it. Now granted, I don't take huge doses, and maybe after you lose a child they give you a lot. But all 3 mg lorazepam does is make me sleepy - I'd be able to give a totally normal interview. Obviously some sedatives are stronger, but I don't think it's that suspicious. She does seem drunk to me in the interrogation.

And I also think people do downplay how much people would not want to admit this - "well why didn't they just call the cops and report an accident?" Most parents would, but quite a few would not, especially if there were issues going on that would then come out and they were image-conscious. And about Burke, the whole 9 year olds can't be prosecuted thing - I mean, was that common knowledge? And even if it were common knowledge, his life would still be ruined, as would theirs. I think a cover-up in that situation makes total sense, but I don't really see Burke as capable.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I agree with a lot of this, particularly that the sexual aspects don't add up, but her head bash is so extreme I can't see it coming from a push. I mean maybe someone lost it and swung her around into something - I don't know. But I find it hard to see it as truly accidental. Possible, not likely.

Re: prescription drugs, I don't know. I have a high tolerance, and I'm a very tiny person. I have horrible insomnia and have sedatives for it. Now granted, I don't take huge doses, and maybe after you lose a child they give you a lot. But all 3 mg lorazepam does is make me sleepy - I'd be able to give a totally normal interview. Obviously some sedatives are stronger, but I don't think it's that suspicious. She does seem drunk to me in the interrogation.

And I also think people do downplay how much people would not want to admit this - "well why didn't they just call the cops and report an accident?" Most parents would, but quite a few would not, especially if there were issues going on that would then come out and they were image-conscious. And about Burke, the whole 9 year olds can't be prosecuted thing - I mean, was that common knowledge? And even if it were common knowledge, his life would still be ruined, as would theirs. I think a cover-up in that situation makes total sense, but I don't really see Burke as capable.

I have never believed the head bash was an accident. It was full of rage. Whose? I dunno.

I found this photo in my archive, I can't recall where I found it... Probably @ CandyRose. Where exactly was this photo taken???


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[BOESP]

I agree with a lot of this, particularly that the sexual aspects don't add up, but her head bash is so extreme I can't see it coming from a push. I mean maybe someone lost it and swung her around into something - I don't know. But I find it hard to see it as truly accidental. Possible, not likely.

Re: prescription drugs, I don't know. I have a high tolerance, and I'm a very tiny person. I have horrible insomnia and have sedatives for it. Now granted, I don't take huge doses, and maybe after you lose a child they give you a lot. But all 3 mg lorazepam does is make me sleepy - I'd be able to give a totally normal interview. Obviously some sedatives are stronger, but I don't think it's that suspicious. She does seem drunk to me in the interrogation.

And I also think people do downplay how much people would not want to admit this - "well why didn't they just call the cops and report an accident?" Most parents would, but quite a few would not, especially if there were issues going on that would then come out and they were image-conscious. And about Burke, the whole 9 year olds can't be prosecuted thing - I mean, was that common knowledge? And even if it were common knowledge, his life would still be ruined, as would theirs. I think a cover-up in that situation makes total sense, but I don't really see Burke as capable.

Welcome to the Court of Public Opinion lawstudent!

BBM. What I don't understand, if it is BDI, is why go to all the effort to cover it up yet do everything to keep it going in the public and media, down to John Ramsey even writing a new book in 2013. Patsy died in 2006 so she can't be blamed for John coming out with another book.

It makes no sense to me to cover up then keep pushing it for 17 years if you are protecting your son.