Found Deceased KS - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #20 *Arrest*

[SecretGarden]

Interestedincases, we’re on the same page with the same fears (dumpster). Although her hands do give me reason to think concrete... but maybe she got hurt picking a heavy container off the pavement after removing it from her trunk and opening the dumpster.

If she acted solo, I feel like LE has a harder job, but not impossible.

The people she reported to be standing outside her house... this was days prior to Olive Garden, correct? She sent a text to JH. If there were suspicious ppl outside my house and I was constantly alone, I’d probably send my husband a photo too... along the lines of “these ppl are smoking outside the house, WTF? I don’t recognize them and am freaked out.”

What she led to LE was a total weird lie... about her being friendly? Once the crime occured I think she started to piece together her story. Make it look like a kidnapping. Frame strangers that she already has photo evidence of.

So far this is the only part that makes me think she had an accomplice. Someone to coach her through this “traumatic ordeal.” I feel like someone helped her pull it together right away and talked her through a “solid” story. I feel if she did this alone, she would have waited longer to go the police. Not the next day, or hours after the crime... someone told her to go home, calm down, clean the house, wait until the afternoon, and then report him missing with lots of drama. I’m sure LE walked into a pretty tidy house.

Was her 9-11 call at exactly 6:15? If so, gives me reason to believe she was just watching the clock waiting to make the call.

As for her erractic behavior when running to the neighbors, I believe it. It was a part of her story, but she also just murdered a 5 year old, and she was indeed losing her s**t over what just happened.

 

[liltexans]

MOD NOTE

STOP accusing EG's cousin of direct involvement in Lucas' disappearance. We do not have evidence that confirms KE's involvement. We have an arrest for forgery and related crimes, and we have speculation as to what KE might have done regarding forged doctor's notes for Lucas. But that is it. That is not proof that KE was involved. This is how rumors grow legs.

Additionally, we really need to keep on the topic of Lucas. Yes, there are some comparisons that have been made to his disappearance and Caylee's, Kyron's, Aliayah's, and many more unfortunate missing and murdered children, but we have an entire forum on WS dedicated to Caylee and another for Kyron. Each missing child has his or her own forum or thread. Unless the same perpetrator is suspected in another missing child's disappearance, there is no need for so much discussion of another case. My suggestion is to take these discussions private and use our PM system if there are avenues you wish to explore regarding case comparisons.

Please refer to WS Rules, in particular:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65798-Etiquette-amp-Information

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[n_6CC]

Interestedincases, we’re on the same page with the same fears (dumpster). Although her hands do give me reason to think concrete... but maybe she got hurt picking a heavy container off the pavement after removing it from her trunk and opening the dumpster.

If she acted solo, I feel like LE has a harder job, but not impossible.

The people she reported to be standing outside her house... this was days prior to Olive Garden, correct? She sent a text to JH. If there were suspicious ppl outside my house and I was constantly alone, I’d probably send my husband a photo too... along the lines of “these ppl are smoking outside the house, WTF? I don’t recognize them and am freaked out.”

What she led to LE was a total weird lie... about her being friendly? Once the crime occured I think she started to piece together her story. Make it look like a kidnapping. Frame strangers that she already has photo evidence of.

So far this is the only part that makes me think she had an accomplice. Someone to coach her through this “traumatic ordeal.” I feel like someone helped her pull it together right away and talked her through a “solid” story. I feel if she did this alone, she would have waited longer to go the police. Not the next day, or hours after the crime... someone told her to go home, calm down, clean the house, wait until the afternoon, and then report him missing with lots of drama. I’m sure LE walked into a pretty tidy house.

Was her 9-11 call at exactly 6:15? If so, gives me reason to believe she was just watching the clock waiting to make the call.

As for her erractic behavior when running to the neighbors, I believe it. It was a part of her story, but she also just murdered a 5 year old, and she was indeed losing her s**t over what just happened.

If we know she had scratches for sure, and possible discoloration on the knuckles, the scratches could easily come from this type of grass

This type of natural landscaping would be something I find interesting.


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[WildcatRunner]

All of this ^^^ combined with my own personal experiences with that type is why I can understand JH. It upsets and sickens me because I want him to wake up, and I do not condone or excuse his failure to protect Lucas. I just can understand.

Do you have an opinion of what could be done to get through to him?

 

[WildcatRunner]

I have a sister that is exactly as you describe you mom (and as EG has been described). She has two children. She had multiple CPS cases against her when her children were younger. She was a filthy house keeper when they were growing up. She no longer has communication with one of her daughters, and the lack of communication is at the fault of the daughter...as she portrays it to anyone who will listen. My sister is thought to be narcissist with borderline personality disorder. She is physically and emotionally abusive to our parents, her grandchildren and us - her siblings. We, the siblings, have all distanced ourselves from her, her lies and manipulation. Extended family tend to still fall prey, and even one of her daughters gets sucked into her cycles of use you/hate you.

I have found by watching my sister over the years that there are only two types of people that are willingly around her "on purpose". Type 1 (Her husband) those with no self esteem, that are broke down and don't know that they deserve better, and will willingly go along with her ploys and evilness just to make her quite down for a moment. Never catching on that it doesn't work. Type 2 (my nephew) other narcissists. They play off of each others dark side. She tells him she hates someone, he sneaks over and kills their dog (true story). Together they not good. She is a mother figure to him, in a non-nurturing way. They are two evils in a pod!

Only giving my sisters story to say that I think it's highly possibly that EG is a narcissist that will deny whatever she did until her last breath, but it's also highly likely she had someone familial with a similar personality trait that fed off of her and would have helped do anything, no questions asked, and like PB said - others know after the fact. My sister & nephew have a small circle of people they talk about their activities with.

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head. Now to break just one person in the circle. Murder of a child is pretty serious for them all to remain willing to cover up. Even people who will do some pretty terrible things will draw the line at something like that.

 

[haven71]

Backing up to Valentine's Day (I know I missed the main discussion when it was happening)...

So it sounds like EG contacted (phone call? text?) JH and told him that JO had taken Lucas. So what happened between then and when Lucas was reported missing on the 17th? Did JH think Lucas was missing this whole time period? Did he just blow it off, or were they freaking out (she would obviously only be pretending to freak out, since she still had him). Why didn't JH contact the authorities? When did he find out EG lied about JO taking him? When suddenly missing Lucas was missing again even though he never came home in the first place? Or did EG tell him that JO brought him back before she reported him missing again? Seems obvious JH should be freaking out, if not once, then twice. Kids just don't keep disappearing and reappearing, if that's the case.

Am I missing a big piece of info here? It sure seems like it.

 

[AFTM]

http://www.businessinsider.com/police-detective-reveals-how-she-can-tell-suspects-are-lying-2012-4

Geezzz Who does this sound like??

She's guilty...

MOO



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[papixee]

Backing up to Valentine's Day (I know I missed the main discussion when it was happening)...

So it sounds like EG contacted (phone call? text?) JH and told him that JO had taken Lucas. So what happened between then and when Lucas was reported missing on the 17th? Did JH think Lucas was missing this whole time period? Did he just blow it off, or were they freaking out (she would obviously only be pretending to freak out, since she still had him). Why didn't JH contact the authorities? When did he find out EG lied about JO taking him? When suddenly missing Lucas was missing again even though he never came home in the first place? Or did EG tell him that JO brought him back before she reported him missing again? Seems obvious JH should be freaking out, if not once, then twice. Kids just don't keep disappearing and reappearing, if that's the case.

Am I missing a big piece of info here? It sure seems like it.

Our VI's have indicated that JH talked to Lucas on the 15th, so at that time he was aware Lucas was home.

 

[WildcatRunner]

Iam new to all of this.. but to me it seems unusual that we are not seeing friends and/or family speaking out. Do we know if they were very social . It seems EG mother and father are not very close to her

When RoyalsGal was posting, early on, she said her sister (IIRC) went to high school with EG, and that EG was somewhat a loner, and pot smoker. So probably not highly social later in life either.

 

[Deleted member 221026]

been lurking because I do not know what to add to the conversation..I do have a question..What did LE say again after they interviewed EG?? Was it that they determined that LH was NOT abducted???? My mind keeps going back to that house..what was it about the living room?? his bedroom?? that made them KNOW that for certain...I DO believe 100% that she killed him What did those police officers see that evening?? A bed that hadn't been slept in?? Everything TOO neat?? I know this is all speculation on my part. I love this little boy so much and I never met him....someday in Paradise,we will play together Lucas,I promise!

That's it cast. Now we know the mystery about the cleaning comment so foremost in her mind, enough to mention probably within her first statement to the police.

 

[WildcatRunner]

I am with several others who think it's possible that he is in the landfill. I think he was placed in something (box, bin....) and then placed in a dumpster. I think it was a HUGE mistake that in the early days there was no searching done at the landfills. Where is our resident trash expert (tee hee). Is this at all possible if the word was not put out to the trash collectors until a few days after? I guess this is my biggest worry, that he's in the landfill and will never be found. It's awful to think about. My heart hurts.

Do we know for sure landfills weren't searched? We weren't told they weren't, but we haven't been told much, honestly.

 

[Horror]

Backing up to Valentine's Day (I know I missed the main discussion when it was happening)...

So it sounds like EG contacted (phone call? text?) JH and told him that JO had taken Lucas. So what happened between then and when Lucas was reported missing on the 17th? Did JH think Lucas was missing this whole time period? Did he just blow it off, or were they freaking out (she would obviously only be pretending to freak out, since she still had him). Why didn't JH contact the authorities? When did he find out EG lied about JO taking him? When suddenly missing Lucas was missing again even though he never came home in the first place? Or did EG tell him that JO brought him back before she reported him missing again? Seems obvious JH should be freaking out, if not once, then twice. Kids just don't keep disappearing and reappearing, if that's the case.

Am I missing a big piece of info here? It sure seems like it.

MOO
I am thinking this was stated after the fact. I think from memory PB said JH spoke with Lucas on the 15th.
My thoughts are the VD was bought up after Lucas disappeared and before she was arrested. I am thinking a lot of the lies and stories were told between JH getting home and her being arrested.

ETA - posted at same time as other poster about the 15th sorry !


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[Paddleboarder]

I think she left Lucas at home when she went to OG because either he was too bruised up to be seen in public or he was physically too ill to be seen by the public.

She wasn’t about to risk someone saying something or thinking Lucas was being abused.


Unless otherwise stated, everything above is MOO[emoji230][emoji5]

Exactly

 

[Paddleboarder]

Interestedincases, we’re on the same page with the same fears (dumpster). Although her hands do give me reason to think concrete... but maybe she got hurt picking a heavy container off the pavement after removing it from her trunk and opening the dumpster.

If she acted solo, I feel like LE has a harder job, but not impossible.

The people she reported to be standing outside her house... this was days prior to Olive Garden, correct? She sent a text to JH. If there were suspicious ppl outside my house and I was constantly alone, I’d probably send my husband a photo too... along the lines of “these ppl are smoking outside the house, WTF? I don’t recognize them and am freaked out.”

What she led to LE was a total weird lie... about her being friendly? Once the crime occured I think she started to piece together her story. Make it look like a kidnapping. Frame strangers that she already has photo evidence of.

So far this is the only part that makes me think she had an accomplice. Someone to coach her through this “traumatic ordeal.” I feel like someone helped her pull it together right away and talked her through a “solid” story. I feel if she did this alone, she would have waited longer to go the police. Not the next day, or hours after the crime... someone told her to go home, calm down, clean the house, wait until the afternoon, and then report him missing with lots of drama. I’m sure LE walked into a pretty tidy house.

Was her 9-11 call at exactly 6:15? If so, gives me reason to believe she was just watching the clock waiting to make the call.

As for her erractic behavior when running to the neighbors, I believe it. It was a part of her story, but she also just murdered a 5 year old, and she was indeed losing her s**t over what just happened.

The call was at 6:14 pm

 

[MsGazette]

MOO
I am thinking this was stated after the fact. I think from memory PB said JH spoke with Lucas on the 15th.
My thoughts are the VD was bought up after Lucas disappeared and before she was arrested. I am thinking a lot of the lies and stories were told between JH getting home and her being arrested.

ETA - posted at same time as other poster about the 15th sorry !


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When exactly did JH get home? Can someone refresh my memory?


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[Hatfield]

Interestedincases, we’re on the same page with the same fears (dumpster). Although her hands do give me reason to think concrete... but maybe she got hurt picking a heavy container off the pavement after removing it from her trunk and opening the dumpster.

If she acted solo, I feel like LE has a harder job, but not impossible.

The people she reported to be standing outside her house... this was days prior to Olive Garden, correct? She sent a text to JH. If there were suspicious ppl outside my house and I was constantly alone, I’d probably send my husband a photo too... along the lines of “these ppl are smoking outside the house, WTF? I don’t recognize them and am freaked out.”

What she led to LE was a total weird lie... about her being friendly? Once the crime occured I think she started to piece together her story. Make it look like a kidnapping. Frame strangers that she already has photo evidence of.

So far this is the only part that makes me think she had an accomplice. Someone to coach her through this “traumatic ordeal.” I feel like someone helped her pull it together right away and talked her through a “solid” story. I feel if she did this alone, she would have waited longer to go the police. Not the next day, or hours after the crime... someone told her to go home, calm down, clean the house, wait until the afternoon, and then report him missing with lots of drama. I’m sure LE walked into a pretty tidy house.

Was her 9-11 call at exactly 6:15? If so, gives me reason to believe she was just watching the clock waiting to make the call.

As for her erractic behavior when running to the neighbors, I believe it. It was a part of her story, but she also just murdered a 5 year old, and she was indeed losing her s**t over what just happened.

JMO
Excellent and I think you totally nailed a couple things here.

The part about using the pic she sent of the 2 people outside that she sent to JH. I agree that she had already sent that pic to JH for another reason and was now using that to weave into her new excuse why the boy was missing.

I think she sent JH the picture of the 2 people to maybe even try to get him to come home because she was so bored and tried to get sympathy from him about being worried about her enough to come home. She then weaves the picture into a story how they could have took the boy.

Secondly I agree she likely had help with her story. I think maybe the only help she got was to help formulate her story with how she was going to break the news to LE. I am not yet convinced anyone went with her to deposit the boy but I do think she got consultation help from someone on how and when and what story to say to LE. She was crying on someones shoulders before the call to LE IMO.

 

[WillenFan21]

I am not sure if this was posted but I thought it might be valuable to Websletuhers who are sleuthing. This website shows camera's on the roads in Wichita!

http://wichway.org/wichway/App/#devices/US-54/map/-10831537.64/4537533.82/12

 

[Hatfield]

Something that just dawned on me how she could have scraped those knuckles.

I used to be an avid Dumpster Diver and still am if the right item is spied. LOL I can tell you first hand that the large metal lids that those large metal dumpsters have are very hard to handle by yourself. If you are by yourself and have to put something large in a dumpster then you have two choices.

You either try to get your hands under the lip of the lid and lift it up and then move to the side with it partially raised and be strong enough to flip it all the way over to the back from the side because you cant do it from the front. Then load your item and then close the lid.

Or what is also common is you use one hand to try to open the lid far enough to then load whatever item you have using the other hand. A lot of times the lid will try to come slamming down on you when you slip your grip on it. They are heavy and very awkward to deal with if you are by yourself.

This or something like it could be how she hurt her knuckles. I have had many mishaps with those darn large dumpster metal lids.

 

[AFTM]

I am not sure if this was posted but I thought it might be valuable to Websletuhers who are sleuthing. This website shows camera's on the roads in Wichita!

http://wichway.org/wichway/App/#devices/US-54/map/-10831537.64/4537533.82/12

I seen this before but it does not have the capability to go back to that date. I guess LE can get it. I hope they are checking camera's.

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[newmember]

Backing up to Valentine's Day (I know I missed the main discussion when it was happening)...

So it sounds like EG contacted (phone call? text?) JH and told him that JO had taken Lucas. So what happened between then and when Lucas was reported missing on the 17th? Did JH think Lucas was missing this whole time period? Did he just blow it off, or were they freaking out (she would obviously only be pretending to freak out, since she still had him). Why didn't JH contact the authorities? When did he find out EG lied about JO taking him? When suddenly missing Lucas was missing again even though he never came home in the first place? Or did EG tell him that JO brought him back before she reported him missing again? Seems obvious JH should be freaking out, if not once, then twice. Kids just don't keep disappearing and reappearing, if that's the case.

Am I missing a big piece of info here? It sure seems like it.

i dont believe we have confirmation on how exactly the Valentine's Day life surfaced and i circle back to once in awhile bc it does feel like it may hold a big piece of info.

it seems possible, imo/speculation, that EG told her boys' father this lie: we learned that her visitation with the boys was Wednesdays, which the 14th was and that there was a recent blow out among EG/JH and the boys' father due to JH laying his hands on one of the boys. EG had allegedly told the boys' father JH had moved out. so, totally unrelated to what was going to happen on Friday, it seems logical she'd tell the boys' father Lucas is with JO because if she had kicked JH out where else would Lucas logically be? Also, imo its safe to assume the boys' father and JH don't talk regularly, particularly in a social manner, so it probably seemed relatively safe this lie would never surface (until everything fell apart on Friday....).

finally, this does raise the question of where Lucas was on the 14th too.