Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.01.17 - Day 8

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Tealgrove said:
I don't think she was held as a hostage. The Crown has given a time frame in which they contend she was killed. I think the evidence is going to show when she was murdered and it will align with the dates given.

He didn't have a "smell check" reminder in his phone for no reason.

MOO
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Well a body will smell at any time. I'm wondering about wildlife getting in there to eat and how they might have faced all the thousands of flies that would have gathered, and so on. I guess without evidence of anything different, one can only imagine.
 
I'm getting the impression from Smich's lawyer's lack of questions, that he is not denying that LB was killed by Millard at Maplegate on July 3rd or 4th. I think his defence will be similar to the last trial, that he helped dispose of the body but had now idea the murder was going to take place and that he wasn't there at the time.

I think the brunt of this case will come from recovered text message deleted from Millard's phone. We know LB's phone is gone. Last trial we had eyewitnesses, we had surveillance video and we had evidence from people involved in the cleaning of the truck. This trial I fear is going to have far less physical evidence, so I'm hoping that they have some very incriminating texts against both these guys!
 
andreww said:
Not buying the "thrill kill" aspect. With TB & WM there were definitely things to be gained, a motive if you will. I do believe that LB was asking Millard for things, whether it be drugs, a place to stay or sex. Sure Millard could have ignored her, but if she started leveraging her knowledge of his illegal activities, he'd be forced to deal with her.

And if it were just for the thrill of it, why not wait for the incinerator to be in place? Nope, something was urgent, she had to go now and they'd deal with the disposal later.
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It seems to me that Millard wanted to hurt/kill Babcock for quite some time. The "I'll remove her from our lives" message was from April 2012 and he didn't kill her until July. He took his time acquiring guns and the incinerator, and once he had those things he couldn't wait to use them on Babcock. IMO, given the evidence so far, the urgency to kill Babcock was driven more by his desire to kill her than a perceived need to kill her. He killed her the same day the Eliminator cleared the border. IMO he couldn't wait to use his new toy. He probably freaked out when he realized it didn't just work out of the box.

Also, with Bosma; I never saw any good reason why they would kill him, other than they could. Sure, they had the truck to gain, but murder is not a necessary part of vehicle theft, IMO.

Wayne was different because they couldn't simply kill him and make his body disappear. That would have held up the passing of his estate. Instead, they had to stage it as a suicide so that Dellen could receive his father's wealth quicker. But, again, there appears to be an element of sick entertainment in Wayne's death too. Remember Dellen's photo on Steam (online gaming site) with the bloody eye? It was uploaded in November 2012, the same month his dad died by a shot to the eye. IMO he was deriving pleasure / satisfying an evil hunger from committing these acts.
 
Claroon said:
Well a body will smell at any time. I'm wondering about wildlife getting in there to eat and how they might have faced all the thousands of flies that would have gathered, and so on. I guess without evidence of anything different, one can only imagine.
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I am wondering if the body was stored somehow to prevent decomposition? Although, if the body was wrapped up in that tarp and sealed to prevent access to flies, it may have contained the odour and bodily fluids. I seem to recall something about burnt tarp grommets from the previous trial?
 
billandrew said:
It seems to me that Millard wanted to hurt/kill Babcock for quite some time. The "I'll remove her from our lives" message was from April 2012 and he didn't kill her until July. He took his time acquiring guns and the incinerator, and once he had those things he couldn't wait to use them on Babcock. IMO, given the evidence so far, the urgency to kill Babcock was driven more by his desire to kill her than a perceived need to kill her. He killed her the same day the Eliminator cleared the border. IMO he couldn't wait to use his new toy. He probably freaked out when he realized it didn't just work out of the box.

Also, with Bosma; I never saw any good reason why they would kill him, other than they could. Sure, they had the truck to gain, but murder is not a necessary part of vehicle theft, IMO.

Wayne was different because they couldn't simply kill him and make his body disappear. That would have held up the passing of his estate. Instead, they had to stage it as a suicide so that Dellen could receive his father's wealth quicker. But, again, there appears to be an element of sick entertainment in Wayne's death too. Remember Dellen's photo on Steam (online gaming site) with the bloody eye? It was uploaded in November 2012, the same month his dad died by a shot to the eye. IMO he was deriving pleasure / satisfying an evil hunger from committing these acts.
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I get what you are saying Billandrew, it does make some sense. When exactly was the first talk of building an incinerator? If that date was in roughly the same time period as LBs text to CN it would make a lot more sense. When he first started having ideas of the incinerator is a good indication of when he was first having ideas of murder. It wouldn't likely have been for WM. It may have been part of the truck theft plan as I believe those ideas were already circulating in his head?
 
billandrew said:
It seems to me that Millard wanted to hurt/kill Babcock for quite some time. The "I'll remove her from our lives" message was from April 2012 and he didn't kill her until July. He took his time acquiring guns and the incinerator, and once he had those things he couldn't wait to use them on Babcock. IMO, given the evidence so far, the urgency to kill Babcock was driven more by his desire to kill her than a perceived need to kill her. He killed her the same day the Eliminator cleared the border. IMO he couldn't wait to use his new toy. He probably freaked out when he realized it didn't just work out of the box.

Also, with Bosma; I never saw any good reason why they would kill him, other than they could. Sure, they had the truck to gain, but murder is not a necessary part of vehicle theft, IMO.

Wayne was different because they couldn't simply kill him and make his body disappear. That would have held up the passing of his estate. Instead, they had to stage it as a suicide so that Dellen could receive his father's wealth quicker. But, again, there appears to be an element of sick entertainment in Wayne's death too. Remember Dellen's photo on Steam (online gaming site) with the bloody eye? It was uploaded in November 2012, the same month his dad died by a shot to the eye. IMO he was deriving pleasure / satisfying an evil hunger from committing these acts.
Click to expand...

I think his brain thinks he is inside a game. None of it is reality to him.
 
andreww said:
I am wondering if the body was stored somehow to prevent decomposition? Although, if the body was wrapped up in that tarp and sealed to prevent access to flies, it may have contained the odour and bodily fluids. I seem to recall something about burnt tarp grommets from the previous trial?
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The quicker it decomposes the better for the killers, harder to get forensics and the date of death etc once the maggots are gone. The flies would only be hanging around a week or two.
 
billandrew are you making a timeline of pre-2012 at all?
 
andreww said:
I am wondering if the body was stored somehow to prevent decomposition? Although, if the body was wrapped up in that tarp and sealed to prevent access to flies, it may have contained the odour and bodily fluids. I seem to recall something about burnt tarp grommets from the previous trial?
Click to expand...

That and duct tape.
 
andreww said:
I get what you are saying Billandrew, it does make some sense. When exactly was the first talk of building an incinerator? If that date was in roughly the same time period as LBs text to CN it would make a lot more sense. When he first started having ideas of the incinerator is a good indication of when he was first having ideas of murder. It wouldn't likely have been for WM. It may have been part of the truck theft plan as I believe those ideas were already circulating in his head?
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  • Feb 10, Millard is acquiring the gun(s).
  • Feb 12, the catty messages between Noudga & Babcock.
  • Feb 14, Millard takes a photo of a gun.
  • Mar 11, Smich takes a photo of a gun.
  • Apr ??, Millard writes about "removing her from our lives".
  • May ??, Millard asks Michalski to keep tabs on Babcock.
  • May 16, Millard tells Schlatman he's going to want him to build an incinerator.
  • Jun 18, they get quotes on the Eliminator. Millard sounds anxious. They officially order it within a few days.
  • Jul 3, Schlatman is notified that the Eliminator cleared the border and is "on the road" to the hangar.
  • Jul 3, Babcock is allegedly murdered in the evening or early morning July 4.
 
andreww said:
I get what you are saying Billandrew, it does make some sense. When exactly was the first talk of building an incinerator? If that date was in roughly the same time period as LBs text to CN it would make a lot more sense. When he first started having ideas of the incinerator is a good indication of when he was first having ideas of murder. It wouldn't likely have been for WM. It may have been part of the truck theft plan as I believe those ideas were already circulating in his head?
Click to expand...

billandrew timeline says this:

(2012)
May 16 ?? Millard texts Schlatman: "Soon I'm going to want you to put together a home made incinerator." Bosma Day 36: Harrison testimony
 
Claroon said:
billandrew are you making a timeline of pre-2012 at all?
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I have not really kept track of that stuff. The timing of a lot of pre-2012 info is fuzzy and I don't think I can present it in a meaningful way.

One thing on my bucket list is to add events from post-May 2013 as I think there are some revealing things there. For example, the date that MWJ was arrested on drugs charges in Jan 2014, and the dates that charges were laid in relation to Babcock and Wayne Millard. Also dates like when Deepak Paradkhar was no longer representing Millard. I would love to see all of this stuff mapped out on the timeline. Eventually!
 
Night_is_Mine said:
If DM was just renting a gun why did he pay 2k for it? And back in February of 2012? 5 months ahead of time? So this guy kills LB in July 2012. His dad in November 2012. Tim in May 2013? Quite a schedule. I have a feeling the feb 2012 gun was used on someone else...
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Feb 2012 was when the ***** really started hitting the fan, with CN learning of LB's renewed involvement with DM, and presumably when CN started putting pressure on DM and/or making ultimatums.
 
andreww said:
Not buying the "thrill kill" aspect. With TB & WM there were definitely things to be gained, a motive if you will. I do believe that LB was asking Millard for things, whether it be drugs, a place to stay or sex. Sure Millard could have ignored her, but if she started leveraging her knowledge of his illegal activities, he'd be forced to deal with her.

And if it were just for the thrill of it, why not wait for the incinerator to be in place? Nope, something was urgent, she had to go now and they'd deal with the disposal later.
Click to expand...

Could these two be the actual guys she wanted to get into the escort business with? But she was no good at recruiting.
 
billandrew said:
It seems to me that Millard wanted to hurt/kill Babcock for quite some time. The "I'll remove her from our lives" message was from April 2012 and he didn't kill her until July. He took his time acquiring guns and the incinerator, and once he had those things he couldn't wait to use them on Babcock. IMO, given the evidence so far, the urgency to kill Babcock was driven more by his desire to kill her than a perceived need to kill her. He killed her the same day the Eliminator cleared the border. IMO he couldn't wait to use his new toy. He probably freaked out when he realized it didn't just work out of the box.

Also, with Bosma; I never saw any good reason why they would kill him, other than they could. Sure, they had the truck to gain, but murder is not a necessary part of vehicle theft, IMO.

Wayne was different because they couldn't simply kill him and make his body disappear. That would have held up the passing of his estate. Instead, they had to stage it as a suicide so that Dellen could receive his father's wealth quicker. But, again, there appears to be an element of sick entertainment in Wayne's death too. Remember Dellen's photo on Steam (online gaming site) with the bloody eye? It was uploaded in November 2012, the same month his dad died by a shot to the eye. IMO he was deriving pleasure / satisfying an evil hunger from committing these acts.
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Billandrew, so good to hear your perspective. IIRC, you've previously, generally, shied away from giving your opinion.

I do hope the next part; phone records, texts and timeline of purchases (gun and The Eliminator) as we know it, is entered/permitted in this trial. Plus, the new stuff we will learn. The timing of this all is so obvious.

If the Bosma jury found this timeline compelling enough to indicate M1 a year later, then thus jury should too.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
 
Does everyone think that MS s lawyer will say that DM killed LB, he had more reason too, and MS had none, and MS just helped him dispose of the body? MS it looks like did not really know LB so he would have no reason to be involved in killing her, only to help DM dispose of the body.
 
musicaljoke said:
Indeed. By July 6th 2012, the temperature was up to 34C, which would have been even higher inside the barn. And the humidity was hitting 98%.

http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climat...ongSec=0&timeframe=1&Year=2012&Month=7&Day=6#
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So from my personal experience, my Guinea Pig died and was supposed to be buried, but my ex bf never got around to it...it was in a container with the lid slightly open, by day 2 it was completely liquefied, by day 3...well you don't even want to know. It was about that temperature. She would have been only bones by the time week 3 came around. It's not a pretty sight.
 
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