Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.12.17 - Final Charge - *Verdict Watch*

[meterclicks]

Ten things jurors at the Laura Babcock trial did not hear

http://www.cp24.com/news/ten-things-jurors-at-the-laura-babcock-trial-did-not-hear-1.3718360

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Would love to hear from people who were at court what they saw that they couldn't discuss because the jury wasn't there (if its allowed here)

I would be happy to share my personal opinion if it is allowed. I thought it would be OK for me to mention that I witnessed this because it is now in print. Unfortunately, I do not know if I am allowed to say more.


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[DeaconBrodie]

I would be happy to share my personal opinion if it is allowed. I thought it would be OK for me to mention that I witnessed this because it is now in print. Unfortunately, I do not know if I am allowed to say more.


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The jury is out and everything that happened in Court is now fair game and no longer subject to a publication ban unless it was specifically banned by the judge as also being banned after the jury was out.

 

[MsSherlock]

Interesting that it was "shortly after" July 5th.

IMHO, the problem wasn't suitable bodies to feed the eliminator, it was more of an issue of getting the eliminator to work correctly. There's probably a bit of a learning curve. It was the end of August that SS said he smelt something foul; probably a result of an incomplete burn, and not necessarily LB. AFAIK, TB was a first time they were going to take the equipment and owner, swipe out the equipment, kill and incinerate the owner. It was a complex plan and everything had to work like clockwork to make it happen, and once again, had LE let it ride for even a week until they made sure TB didn't leave on his own accord, we may not be sitting here in this thread today. There were lots of 3500's out there that they could have stolen, lots of owners they could have killed and incinerated. IMHO, they had to wait until the incinerator was working properly and/or they knew how to use it properly. FWIW, any idiot who would put their phone/camera within 4 or 5 feet of 1200 degrees F just so they can get a trophy pic isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. I seriously doubt that you're suppose to be opening a portable crematorium while its in operation. MOO

 

[Jasper52]

As per the first post in this thread;

Any testimony that might remain under Publication Ban, and/or any courtroom discussion that takes place when the jury is not present, is strictly off-limits.


ETA; Not sure if this still applies.

 

[DeaconBrodie]

If it is then everything that's been posted about 'what the jury didn't hear' is verboten too.

 

[winter2017]

All ,lies just like his story about the magical forest , just lies.

 

[Jasper52]

If it is then everything that's been posted about 'what the jury didn't hear' is verboten too.

I've alerted a mod on my post for clarification now that the jury is deliberating. I think that was meant for what was discussed in the courtroom. Anything in msm is fair game though.

 

[Horror]

Is the verdict in yet?

Lol !! still catching up by I just burst out laughing


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[Casta]

""Crown attorney Jill Cameron argued in court when the jury wasn't present that the Bosma murder was relevant to the Babcock case. She said evidence from that trial would prove that Babcock was in fact murdered and to rebut Millard's claim that she had innocently disappeared. Court heard that Babcock suffered from mental health issues, but was actively seeking treatment, sometimes spoke of suicide and was living a transient lifestyle, bouncing from homes and working as an escort.

Bosma's death, the Crown argued, would also help prove planning and deliberation, as well as refute any possible defence about innocent uses of the incinerator to dispose of animal carcasses or to burn metal and garbage.
The judge said he was partially swayed by the Crown's argument.

"The fact that the two accused used the very same incinerator some ten months later to dispose of Tim Bosma's remains, after he had been murdered, is a distinctive and unusual use of the incinerator, he wrote. "It legitimately helps to infer that Ms. Babcock is likely deceased and that her remains were likely disposed of in the same manner."
However, the judge said the Crown already had significant evidence that Babcock was dead and her remains burned in the incinerator.
Cameron, however, didn't give up.
On the last day of the prosecution's case — and in the absence of the jury — she delivered an impassioned argument in a last-ditch effort to convince the judge to allow her to present the facts of Bosma's murder to the jury.
She outlined a few facts for Code: On July 5, 2012, The Eliminator arrived at Millard's aircraft hangar in Waterloo, Ont. His mechanic sent him a photo of the massive machine, which Millard dubbed "the BBQ."
Shortly thereafter, Millard texted Smich: "'The BBQ is the last piece of the 3500 puzzle,' referring to the Dodge truck Millard wanted," Cameron said to the judge.
"What does the incinerator have to do with a theft of a truck if not to burn its owner?" Cameron told the judge.
"These two also burned another human being in that incinerator. That is a fact. And that makes it more likely that they burned Laura Babcock in that incinerator. Not a deer, not a pet, not a farm animal, not garbage — Miss Babcock's body.""

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/7993707-jurors-in-laura-babcock-s-trial-never-heard-of-tim-bosma-s-murder/

 

[JuneBug67]

Millard texted Smich: “The BBQ is the last piece of the 3500 puzzle.”

Wow, why didn’t we hear that one in the TB trial?!

All of this stuff - and this text in particular - confirms a sense that I have had all along that in a strange way not having information admitted about their other crimes, both actual and aspirational, somehow actually hurt the accused in this trial. The Crown's theory about a motive and plan to kill Laura is extremely weak and very counter-intuitive given Millard's personality. If you take out the texts about Laura and juxtapose all the mission and 3500 and empire rising texts with the incinerator texts instead it tells a different story - the one already told at Tim's trial. My sense more than ever now with the release of the additional information today is that the plan to kill Laura arose only shortly before her death and that the motive was robbery as Millard learned likely just days before that Laura was escorting, of no fixed address, and had thousands of dollars in cash. The incinerator was part of another plan, which is likely why it wasn't even there by the time Millard killed Laura. Not there, not assembled, not on a trailer, not hooked up to a propane tank and ultimately not available for what must have been three very long weeks in July. I think there is a very strong chance that Laura was a crime of opportunity, and if so it's impossible to know what Smich knew and when he became involved from the information we have. It remains remarkable to me how literally and figuratively absent he seems for many of the critical hours of July 3 and 4.

 

[don_quixote]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
2m2 minutes ago
Judge Code reads the note. The jury is asking for a sets of dominos and two decks of cards.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
13s13 seconds ago
Jury passed a request to judge Code. Reporters are converging back into the room. #LauraBabcock

 

[don_quixote]

Joking

 

[Jealoushe]

All of this stuff - and this text in particular - confirms a sense that I have had all along that in a strange way not having information admitted about their other crimes, both actual and aspirational, somehow actually hurt the accused in this trial. The Crown's theory about a motive and plan to kill Laura is extremely weak and very counter-intuitive given Millard's personality. If you take out the texts about Laura and juxtapose all the mission and 3500 and empire rising texts with the incinerator texts instead it tells a different story - the one already told at Tim's trial. My sense more than ever now with the release of the additional information today is that the plan to kill Laura arose only shortly before her death and that the motive was robbery as Millard learned likely just days before that Laura was escorting, of no fixed address, and had thousands of dollars in cash. The incinerator was part of another plan, which is likely why it wasn't even there by the time Millard killed Laura. Not there, not assembled, not on a trailer, not hooked up to a propane tank and ultimately not available for what must have been three very long weeks in July. I think there is a very strong chance that Laura was a crime of opportunity, and if so it's impossible to know what Smich knew and when he became involved from the information we have. It remains remarkable to me how literally and figuratively absent he seems for many of the critical hours of July 3 and 4.

Seems MS was indeed smarter than his leader in this...and knew to lay low...no phone, no nothing in this time.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

All of this stuff - and this text in particular - confirms a sense that I have had all along that in a strange way not having information admitted about their other crimes, both actual and aspirational, somehow actually hurt the accused in this trial. The Crown's theory about a motive and plan to kill Laura is extremely weak and very counter-intuitive given Millard's personality. If you take out the texts about Laura and juxtapose all the mission and 3500 and empire rising texts with the incinerator texts instead it tells a different story - the one already told at Tim's trial. My sense more than ever now with the release of the additional information today is that the plan to kill Laura arose only shortly before her death and that the motive was robbery as Millard learned likely just days before that Laura was escorting, of no fixed address, and had thousands of dollars in cash. The incinerator was part of another plan, which is likely why it wasn't even there by the time Millard killed Laura. Not there, not assembled, not on a trailer, not hooked up to a propane tank and ultimately not available for what must have been three very long weeks in July. I think there is a very strong chance that Laura was a crime of opportunity, and if so it's impossible to know what Smich knew and when he became involved from the information we have. It remains remarkable to me how literally and figuratively absent he seems for many of the critical hours of July 3 and 4.

Do you really think that having the information about them killing and burning a different person allowed into this case hurt them?

It might help your theory about the eliminator but it greatly reduces the possibility that LB was still alive given they've killed and burned someone else.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Seems MS was indeed smarter than his leader in this...and knew to lay low...no phone, no nothing in this time.

I don't think he was smarter. DM was arrested days before MS was so he had the opportunity to get rid of all of his devices. MS also had cheaper phones and who knows if he had a computer to sync anything to. But the only reason MS got rid of his phones was because DM was arrested first.

 

[mimimic]

MS had confessed to LB that they were burning bodies. DM's text about selling drugs and killing hookers is disturbing. That was from January 2013- a month after he had killed his dad and 6 months after LB. He refers to "hookers"- not hooker. I wonder how many missing women DM and MS are responsible for. Gone without a trace and without one ounce of concern from TPS. Talk about a serial killers playground- any area TPS have jurisdiction over. I wonder how many other little tidbits LE found on their devises that referred to prostitutes or other women that they weren't able to make any sense of?

Thought the response was from the cousin? also is this RB's son?

 

[JuneBug67]

Do you really think that having the information about them killing and burning a different person allowed into this case hurt them?

It might help your theory of the eliminator but it greatly reduces the possibility that LB was still alive given they've killed and burned someone else.

I'm assuming that both the idea that Laura is still alive and the idea that Laura was not incinerated by both accused will be rejected by the jury as simply not consistent with the evidence. Given that, a not only reasonable but likely alternative reason for buying the incinerator could only help the accused with regard to weakening the Crown theory of the case.

 

[Jealoushe]

I don't think he was smarter. DM was arrested days before MS was so he had the opportunity to get rid of all of his devices. MS also had cheaper phones and who knows if he had a computer to sync anything to. But the only reason MS got rid of his phones was because DM was arrested first.

I was more meaning at the time...he didn't have it on him at the time she went missing, wasn't texting DM...stuff like that. They are both dumb to me lol

 

[JPC]

It will be interesting to see all of what the jury didn’t hear after WM trial. DM was sloppy and my guess is that there will be details in his jailhouse letters and likely texts to MS and Isho. Wouldn’t be surprised to see SS and AM pop up again. For everyone who keeps saying that this is about theft, don’t forget that he allegedly killed his own FATHER.


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