Lies point us to the truth

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
Nope, you misunderstand the relevant factors here.

In a previous post I referenced the alleged pajama pants on JonBenet's bedroom floor separately from Burke Ramsey's pajama pants.

Patently you failed to make the Smoking Gun inference.

Where's a pic of these pajama pants on JonBenet's bedroom floor?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Is there an inside secret that only a few people know about that there are other items taken into evidence that aren’t listed? I’d like to know if they did take the scarf on the wet bar into evidence. I realize this is a discounted item but maybe not?

Rain on my Parade,
More or less!

You can work this out when reading books on the case where they list X, Y and Z items, yet they do not appear in any official evidence list.

Same with JonBenet's underwear try matching what is on the evidence logs with what Thomas' or Kolar's list in their books, or in the BPD interviews.

In nearly 99% of all cases due before a jury the prosecution will not release all the evidence they hold, that kept back is usually assumed to be part of a Smoking Gun presentation that will convince the jury! Just think the children's clothing.

The scarf on the wet bar was likely assessed for relevance, sometimes samples gets sent for comparison regardless, so it might not have been completely discounted.

There is also evidence we know nothing about. Evidence that both Kolar and Thomas know exists but cannot reveal.

.

 

[UKGuy]

Where's a pic of these pajama pants on JonBenet's bedroom floor?

icedtea4me,
Its located in the same evidence cage where the Picture of your Blue Sweatpants is stored.

You need to read up on the evidence!

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
Nope, you misunderstand the relevant factors here.

In a previous post I referenced the alleged pajama pants on JonBenet's bedroom floor separately from Burke Ramsey's pajama pants.

Patently you failed to make the Smoking Gun inference.

Where's a pic of these pajama pants on JonBenet's bedroom floor?

icedtea4me,
Its located in the same evidence cage where the Picture of your Blue Sweatpants is stored.

You need to read up on the evidence!

Thank you so much for providing a link! That was so very kind of you!

 

[UKGuy]

Where's a pic of these pajama pants on JonBenet's bedroom floor?


Thank you so much for providing a link! That was so very kind of you!

icedtea4me,

Where's a pic of these pajama pants on JonBenet's bedroom floor?

You heard the story about Flogging a Dead Horse? You should email James Kolar on this subject as it is him I am quoting.

.

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,

You heard the story about Flogging a Dead Horse? You should email James Kolar on this subject as it is him I am quoting.

.

You claim there were pajama pants on JonBenet's bedroom floor. How about providing a pic to prove it?

 

[UKGuy]

You claim there were pajama pants on JonBenet's bedroom floor. How about providing a pic to prove it?

icedtea4me,
Nope, I'm quoting what Kolar states in his book.

Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, pages 370 - 371

There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

Like I say Email James Kolar and ask if he has a photograph.

 

[proust20]

JR said that he was wearing a robe when the kids opened their gifts. Is that the same semen stained robe found in his study?

 

[UKGuy]

JR said that he was wearing a robe when the kids opened their gifts. Is that the same semen stained robe found in his study?

proust20,
It could just be, depends on the color I reckon. Were any of the robe fibers found deposited on JonBenet?

If it's the same one, where does this suggest JR undressed/redressed given his implausible RN reading whilst in his underwear?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
More or less!

You can work this out when reading books on the case where they list X, Y and Z items, yet they do not appear in any official evidence list.

Same with JonBenet's underwear try matching what is on the evidence logs with what Thomas' or Kolar's list in their books, or in the BPD interviews.

In nearly 99% of all cases due before a jury the prosecution will not release all the evidence they hold, that kept back is usually assumed to be part of a Smoking Gun presentation that will convince the jury! Just think the children's clothing.

The scarf on the wet bar was likely assessed for relevance, sometimes samples gets sent for comparison regardless, so it might not have been completely discounted.

There is also evidence we know nothing about. Evidence that both Kolar and Thomas know exists but cannot reveal.

.

UKGuy,
Thank you for this!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

proust20,
It could just be, depends on the color I reckon. Were any of the robe fibers found deposited on JonBenet?

If it's the same one, where does this suggest JR undressed/redressed given his implausible RN reading whilst in his underwear?

.

proust20,
I found this: Dark-toned fabric. Police noticed navy blue pillings - or fuzzy balls from cloth - on JonBenet's lower body, sources said. Investigators later found John Ramsey's dark-colored bathrobe on the floor of his home office next to a desk, sources said. "Some of the police thought the pillings could have come from the robe," a source said.

 

[proust20]

No one can say in what state of dress the killer and/or abuser was during the lethal assault that night. JR's semen staining his robe instead of JB when he was with her? Fibers from JB's clothes (GAP top, Long johns, size 6s 0r size 12s, maybe Barbie nightgown) would have been transferred from JB to her attacker(s). This provides ample motive for JR to dry clean his Israeli shirt.

JR reading the RN in his underwear weirdly mirrors his claim of stripping down to his underwear when he had to break through the basement window after forgetting his keys.

 

[UKGuy]

No one can say in what state of dress the killer and/or abuser was during the lethal assault that night. JR's semen staining his robe instead of JB when he was with her? Fibers from JB's clothes (GAP top, Long johns, size 6s 0r size 12s, maybe Barbie nightgown) would have been transferred from JB to her attacker(s). This provides ample motive for JR to dry clean his Israeli shirt.

JR reading the RN in his underwear weirdly mirrors his claim of stripping down to his underwear when he had to break through the basement window after forgetting his keys.

proust20,
JR in his underwear is as bizarre as is Patsy dressed in the previous days clothing, i.e. suggests the Ramsey's were more forensically aware than we might think?

Did JR dry clean his Israeli shirt, he is pretty vague on this topic?

I reckon the fibers on JonBenet tell us who interacted with her prior to her death.

Fibers from her deposited elsewhere can be ambiguous, i.e. via the White's Party, etc.

.

 

[Venom]

No one can say in what state of dress the killer and/or abuser was during the lethal assault that night. JR's semen staining his robe instead of JB when he was with her? Fibers from JB's clothes (GAP top, Long johns, size 6s 0r size 12s, maybe Barbie nightgown) would have been transferred from JB to her attacker(s). This provides ample motive for JR to dry clean his Israeli shirt.

JR reading the RN in his underwear weirdly mirrors his claim of stripping down to his underwear when he had to break through the basement window after forgetting his keys.

Why on earth would someone take their clothes off to break through a window? Clothes would protect you. That sounds so silly.

 

[UKGuy]

Why on earth would someone take their clothes off to break through a window? Clothes would protect you. That sounds so silly.

Venom,
Totally agree, so silly.

This is just JR's explanation for the broken window, which is refuted by the house cleaner LHP as she claims neither Patsy or John requested her to clear up broken glass, etc.

Could be JR has a penchant for memorable phrases involving underwear, who knows, but I think the RN reading has him just out of bed and dressing when he allegedly hears Patsy shouting?

All this agreement between Pasty and John postmortem on what to say, the timings, etc tells us that both parents were involved in the staging of JonBenet's crime-scene.

i.e. John did not unknowingly simply walk onto the stage of his daughters death!

.

 

[proust20]

JR said that he broke through the basement window at night while the family was in Charlevoix. Perhaps I am misremembering, but didn't BR at some point confirm the break in story, as he said he was there? In any case, a ridiculous aspect of JR's break in, as well as LS's intruder(s) theory, is that the descent down into the train room would have to be accomplished in total darkness. No neighbor heard the sound of breaking glass at 11 PM?

 

[UKGuy]

JR said that he broke through the basement window at night while the family was in Charlevoix. Perhaps I am misremembering, but didn't BR at some point confirm the break in story, as he said he was there? In any case, a ridiculous aspect of JR's break in, as well as LS's intruder(s) theory, is that the descent down into the train room would have to be accomplished in total darkness. No neighbor heard the sound of breaking glass at 11 PM?

proust20,

JR said that he broke through the basement window at night while the family was in Charlevoix. Perhaps I am misremembering, but didn't BR at some point confirm the break in story, as he said he was there? In any case, a ridiculous aspect of JR's break in, as well as LS's intruder(s) theory, is that the descent down into the train room would have to be accomplished in total darkness. No neighbor heard the sound of breaking glass at 11 PM?

Detective Dan Schuler interviews Burke Ramsey 1988, excerpt

DS: Did you ever have any keys that maybe, if you got locked out, you could get somewhere? Some people keep keys kind of hidden under something or out in the yard, or out in the yard or a secret hiding place they can put a key if they get locked out.

BR: I don't remember. One time we did get locked out and there are - this is the basement but there are two windows to the basement, and my dad had to break the window and then go around and unlock the door. 'Cause I mean, when the doors are locked, you can open them from the inside, but not the outside.

DS: Are you talking about the basement windows?

BR: Yeah. He, he -- Okay, he broke basement window, went through there (pointing to a floorplan of the house) and came up around--

DS: And then let you in.

BR: Yeah, I think it was the front door.

DS: Were you with him when that happened? When he had to get in that way?

BR: Yeah I was with him, but I didn't actually go in that way. I just waited--

DS: You waited where?

BR: I don't know where, maybe the front door or this door?

DS: Okay, so he had to let you in that way?

BR: Yeah.

JR helps BR construct a toy on Christmas Day night, BR returns the favor with a broken window alibi, neat eh?

JonBenet Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas

John Ramsey said he checked Burke’s train room, where he and Fleet discussed the broken window. He then added, “I’d actually gone down there earlier that morning, and the window was broken, but I didn’t see any glass around, so I assumed it was broken last summer. I used that window to get in the house one time when I didn’t have a key, but the window was open, I don’t know, maybe an inch, and I just kind of latched it.”

What John Ramsey did not know is that Fleet White had been down to the basement before and he observed that the broken window was closed and unlatched, so this is an example of JR fabricating postmortem evidence, there are many other examples.

JonBenet Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas

There was no apparent forced entry, so how could someone come through that little broken window without disturbing spiderwebs and the dust on the sill?

Patently nobody entered through that window.

JonBenet Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas

About the broken basement window, Patsy said she personally vacuumed up the errant pieces of glass after John kicked in the window last year and was certain she got them all.
Five times this woman, whose own housekeeper described her as slovenly, and who hired legions of cleaning people, would claim to have gone downstairs to a place used basically as a storeroom to clean up glass. It seemed like a prepared answer, and I didn’t believe it.

Listen Carefully: Truth and Evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey Case

The saga of the broken window began before the discovery of JonBenét’s body. John Ramsey claimed in interviews with law enforcement he had used the basement window to break into his home the preceding summer when he returned from a business trip and had forgotten his key.

John was not certain whether he had used the window as an entry once or a few times, nor could he or Patsy recall if the window had ever been repaired, though Patsy said she and their housekeeper, Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, vacuumed up the broken glass. Hoffman-Pugh denied cleaning up any glass pieces, contradicting Patsy’s story.

Listen Carefully: Truth and Evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey Case

James Kolar, a former Ramsey case lead investigator for the District Attorney’s office, verified that three distinct voices could be heard at the end of the tape, which he identified as follows:

Male: (angry) “We’re not speaking to you!”

Female: “Help me Jesus. Help me Jesus”

Young male: “Well, what did you find?”[48]

Initially, the Ramseys claimed Burke had not only slept through the night of December 25 but also the raucous events of the next morning. The enhanced 911 call proved Burke Ramsey was awake while the call was made. Since the Boulder Police Department arrived at the house within minutes of the call, it appeared Burke had been hurried off to bed where he pretended to be asleep.

Here Burke thinks his amateur staging has worked since he asks his parents: Well, what did you find?. i.e. he knows there is something unusual to be discovered, otherwise why bother asking?

John Ramsey's version of events here, changes repeatedly over the years, another example of smoothing the evidence.

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[icedtea4me]

<snip>Here Burke thinks his amateur staging has worked since he asks his parents: Well, what did you find?. i.e. he knows there is something unusual to be discovered, otherwise why bother asking?</snip>

Wrong.

911: How long ago was this?
PR: I don’t know. Just found a note a note and my daughter is missing

12261996-911.htm

Burke's "What did you find?" is him wanting his mother to repeat what she said she found when she said it to the 911 operator.

 

[UKGuy]

Wrong.

911: How long ago was this?
PR: I don’t know. Just found a note a note and my daughter is missing

12261996-911.htm

Burke's "What did you find?" is him wanting his mother to repeat what she said she found when she said it to the 911 operator.

Wrong. Really. How do you know?

You are just matching Burke's question to Patsy's preceding 911 call, i.e. it's after the fact.

How can you know Burke's intent, you were not present?

Patently Burke cannot be thinking did my mother find JonBenet? Certainly not if the case is BDI, since he thinks he is the only person who knows where JonBenet is hidden!

So what could his mother find that Burke does not already know about?

This is why he is asking "What did you find?", he is concerned he left something identifiable behind?

Your ad hoc explanation for Burke's "What did you find?" suggests he was not present from the start of the 911 call as we have :

JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation
Start of the 911 Call

PR: (inaudible) police.
911: (inaudible)
PR: 755 Fifteenth Street
911: What is going on there ma’am?
PR: We have a kidnapping...Hurry, please
911: Explain to me what is going on, ok?
PR: We have a ...There’s a note left and our daughter is gone
911: A note was left and your daughter is gone?

Check the repetition on note

JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation
Continuing the 911 Call

911: How long ago was this?
PR: I don’t know. Just found a note a note and my daughter is missing
911: Does it say who took her?

JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation
Continuing the 911 Call

PR: No I don’t know it’s there...there is a ransom note here.
911: It’s a ransom note.

Perfect Murder, Perfect Town
Released on February 18, 1999
Written by Lawrence Schiller

Burke told Schuler he was awake when his mother made the phone call. His parents might have thought he was asleep but he wasn't he said. When he was asked if he spoke to his parents that morning before being awaken at seven to be taken to the Whites' house, he said no. He said he had stayed in his room the whole time. The 911 tape seem to say otherwise.

Burke's reply is at variance with the forensic evidence and his subsequent version of events, i.e. he is colluding with his parents in the postmortem staging!

If Burke had been present for the first Third of the 911 call, he would have heard Patsy speak the word found and by this point the word note has already been repeated by Patsy and the 911 Operator.

By the last Third of the 911 Call Patsy is more explicit saying it's a Ransom Note, so really just going by the 911 Call. Burke should know Patsy has found a Ransom Note and JonBenet is missing, gone, been kidnapped, etc?

So Note or Ransom Note is repeated 7 times in succession, and you reckon Burke could not work out his mother found a Note and that JonBenet is missing?

Really not credible at all.

 

[icedtea4me]

Wrong. Really. How do you know?

Logic.

<snip>How can you know Burke's intent, you were not present?

And you were?

Patently Burke cannot be thinking did my mother find JonBenet? Certainly not if the case is BDI, since he thinks he is the only person who knows where JonBenet is hidden!

Seriously? Seriously? Fibers from her clothing are entwined in the garrote.

So what could his mother find that Burke does not already know about?
This is why he is asking "What did you find?", he is concerned he left something identifiable behind?

Oh, gosh! He is concerned about his touch-dna on JonBenet's nightgown! LMMFAO!

<snip>If Burke had been present for the first Third of the 911 call, he would have heard Patsy speak the word found and by this point the word note has already been repeated by Patsy and the 911 Operator.<snip>

It didn't occur to you that he didn't show up until the following exchange, did it?

911: How long ago was this?
PR: I don’t know. Just found a note a note and my daughter is missing


You definitely salivate over the thought of 9-yr old Burke having been the one to murder JonBenet.