long weekend break: discuss the latest here #101

[WithMyLittleEye]

This defense "expert" makes me laugh.

I work in clinical research and audit hundreds of these psych tests and assessments weekly. If the instructions for the respondents and assessors are not strictly adhered to, the data can not be used within the clinical trial. We call these Protocol Violations. In these cases, a note-to-file would need to be completed by the assessor or rater explaining why the instructions were not adhered to and the corrective action for prevention of future violations or deviations in the future. This document would be signed and dated by the assessor and filed in the participant's file. A copy of the document would also be sent to the companies (pharmaceutical), central file which keeps copies of every document within the trial regarding violations and deviations.

Here's a couple of many possible Protocol Violations that renders data useless:

- Using pencil.
This is document use 101. ALL clinical notes, tests, assessments, corrections, everything must be completed in ink. In medical records, using pencil, white out, or scribbles to obscure a revised word or number would render the data useless.
Lets say the participant inadvertently circled reaponse 1 instead of 2, the response would need to be lined through as to not obscure the original response, then the revised response completed agar to the initial response, initialed and dated by the person who completed the response keeping in mind the the assessor can not revise the participants response, must be done at the time of the assessment and corrected as detailed above by the participant. Corrections can't be completed after the day of the assessment or test. Lol

-Using a "handmade" response form for a standardized test and transferring raw data by the assessor.
I laughed out loud when I saw legal pad pages with JAs responses...in pencil!!!! Did she even sign and date these pages, Lol...and to top it off...the transfer of raw data by RS from the handmade form...in pencil...to the answer/response....in pencil...lol. In addition, to not have the entirety of the original test/scale/assessment, which includes the responses, signed and dated by both the assessor and participant.....in INK....stapled and all pages accounted for...1 of 1, 2 of 2, etc...filed in the participants file makes my brain scramble.

I could go on and on...

Lets just say, for clinical trials, if the FDA stopped by and audited files like this, which they can do at any time as federal officers, RS would be visibly shaking. If one person is consistently found in violation, the FDA could revoke their professional license for a lifetime. The worst part, the integrity of the data could place the validity of all data within the clinical trial in jeopardy.

There must be protocols for medical expert assessments, in record keeping, hired by the state for their data to be admissible in a trial. I can't wrap my head around the fact that anything he touched is admissible in this murder trial.

But why did the prosecution allow this into trial? One of my hypothesis:HHJP: is that it gives JM a lot to play with. Also, it doesn't look very good that the state hired RS, even though he is a defense expert.

By the way, has anyone put together a picture of JW with an outline of her mono color skirt suit that you can click to change the color and also change the rotation of her "bold" necklaces and sling backs...like the metallic gold she wore today! It think it would be a lot of fun to play with during her questioning to pass the time.

 

[MeeBee]

I just had to get on here and spew a little rant....

I was anxiously waiting to hear the jurors' questions and then there was a "fire" at work and I had to stop listening to the trial for a couple of hours. I get back to the trial and I hear Dr. S being questioned by JW - and I said WHAT THE CRAP?! WHY IS THIS IDIOT STILL TALKING??? And why is the DT still trying to save this witness? He has ZERO credibility! I couldn't bear to listen any longer!

Really - did I miss anything worth listening to? Sorry for the rant, but I find Dr. S's testimony more painful than even JA's was.

You missed Juan.

 

[RadarLuv]

I can't wait for the new season 4 coming out in May on Netflix and then the movie. It is such a great show.

Best show ever, IMO.

 

[panthera]

curious about this jury on HLN After Dark. How are they selected?

They split 7-5 on tonight's vote. JA's history of tire slashing could make the difference with the real Jury deciding her fate as to whether or not she brought a knife with her.
MOO

 

[thefragile7393]

I hate the way this trial is becoming a circus.
moo.

[video=youtube;1D5Sa2Yq-2g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5Sa2Yq-2g[/video]
No joke. I swear I hear this music watching sometimes...especially with Doc <mod snip> today. I have visions of this being DT's entrance music.

 

[kaRN]

Are you saying I have PTSD AND I'm menopausal to boot?!? Oh, gosh. At the first of the week, I thought I just had Transient Global Amnesia due to hot baths! My poor husband! :floorlaugh:

I hypothesized that probability prior to ever meeting you. Your post only validated my hypothesis. :floorlaugh:

 

[Pink Panther]

:welcome4:

First of all, I do not believe her version of events whatsoever. Therefore I do not believe she heard the knife clang on the tile floor unless she dropped it when she finished stabbing Travis before dragging him back to the shower. However, he was in the bedroom, on the carpet, when that occurred. It most likely would have been the camera which made that noise, if it (the noise) existed.

MOO

NOTHING that she has said "existed". I don't believe any of her testimony at this point. She makes it sound like they had anal sex day-in-day-out. I don't believe it for a second. I think most of what we discuss here, is a figment of her imagination.

moo

 

[Deleted member 95475]

You missed Juan.

NOOO! I'll have to listen to it tomorrow on YouTube - can you tell me about when he is back on grilling this guy? Love, love, love Juan! Frankly, I don't know how Dr. S can even show his face at this point, or why the DT is beating this dead horse. Dr. S is done. I don't know how forcing the jury to listen to his dribble helps at all.

 

[4Jacy]

Travis Alexander! Was Jodie's ticket to the good life.
From the lips of the doc! In so many words!
She thought she was going to be mrs travis Alexander.
Jodi is not the type of girl! You take home to mom.

BBM

This is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!!!!

Thank you Katie!!!!

 

[katydid23]

I agree with you completely about cross examining Jodi. I think that that was appropriate. I was speaking more about his treatment of our unesteemed psychologist.It should be interesting to see how he is with the next professional.

Normally, I would agree with you about showing respect to other professionals on the stand. But by the time Juan faced him during his testimony, he had already figured out the shady shenanigans Samuels had going on. This guy was trying all kinds of unethical and dishonest stuff to put on over on the prosecution. So Juan had every right to come after him the way he has, imo.

And Samuels even admitted that he was thrown by the 'veracity' of the prosecutions cross examination of him. I think he meant ferocity but it was a Freudian slip. :giggle:

 

[Lorelilly]

I've said it before and I'll say it again this trial is so off course, and it's costing the tax payers a ridiculous amount of money. IMO I think that stations like HLN and all their sideshows should have to contribute to the funding of the trial. HLN has to be making an enormous amount of money on this trial, with a commercial break every 5 to 10 minutes. Not unless they are giving away air time, which I doubt. When I see shows like Dr. Drew giving legal advice something is wrong. He's went from addiction specialist to legal analyst in two months. I have watched these shows and certain people ( you know who you are) take down Court TV, In Session and wonder how many will lose their jobs at HLN when this case is over?

I agree the trial is OFF course but not more then the trial of Casey Anthony, OJ Simpson, Scott Peterson or others. One reason is because its a Death Penalty case. I hate them because the court bends over backwards to prevent any reversible errors (!) (oxymoron)

But this trial is off the rails because of one thing... Jodi Arias. She is a monster dressed like your next door neighbor. She behaves calm like your brothers girlfriend. Shes nice and soft spoken like your child's teacher. Shes a riddle wrapped in an enigma inside a mystery box of Cracker Jack. So normal looking isn't she. Gotta go now, new babysitter coming tonight and I need to give her the schedule etc... evil is as evil does.

 

[Trainfan34]

Blood evidence on the walls of the hall show he was not walking but crawling down the hall..

Then how was he able to walk all the way up the hallway? I can relate to no air being born a severe asthmatic, I can't keep walking I stop to catch my breath. Wouldn't he have stayed in the bathroom and fell their instead of all the way down the hallway? I don't know how long the hallway was, but when I'm having an attack I can't walk 5 ft. or I'll stop breathing altogether.

 

[katydid23]

NOTHING that she has said "existed". I don't believe any of her testimony at this point. She makes it sound like they had anal sex day-in-day-out. I don't believe it for a second. I think most of what we discuss here, is a figment of her imagination.

moo

I agree. I think she played up the anal sex just to imply he was a pedophile. She is disgusting.

 

[Zeno49]

I want to put an end to the whole debate as to whether and why Jodi would bring a knife and a gun with her -- Here is why along with supporting evidence: Jodi planned all along to kill Travis with a knife and a gun in order to make it look like TWO people killed him because a two-person attack would almost certainly eliminate single jealous lovers such as Jodi as suspects. The fact that Jodi wanted it to look like two people killed Travis also explains why Jodi shot Travis after she already had slit his throat and he was surely dead or dying. The proof that this was her intent all along lies in her own words - when she called Detective Flores before she was arrested, at the end of the call she made sure she asked whether he thought it was more than one person who attacked Travis. She made a big point of asking him if it was more than one killer. She claims that was the rumor at the time, and she just wanted to ask Flores if that was true. But I bet you cannot find one person who told her that rumor. In fact, the cops thought all along that it was Jodi. So, once again, she brought the knife and the gun to make it look like a brutal attack beyond something that she would or could have done alone. Once they thought it was two suspects, she figured she would be out of the line of suspicion.

 

[BritsKate]

I missed the show on HLN with a live reenactment of the crime scene, which I think the jury should have went to but he was up high at the sink. Which if he was stabbed in the chest, I don't think he would have been able to keep walking.

I haven't seen the reenactment either but its been discussed repeatedly and I've been here the whole time...

The medically minded people who have shared their experience have agreed that IF he was stabbed in the heart first he would have lived for several minutes. The ME also testified to that.

So the theory goes she stabs him in the heart either in or just coming out of the shower and he stumbles forward, grabs onto the edge of the sink for support, aspirates the blood we see. Then he falls and crawls through the bathroom, then hall, to his bedroom.

The blood spatter analysis supports this in my opinion as there is a lot of spatter at very low levels, consistent with him crawling - as well as aspirated blood on the sink. The analyst concluded such aspiration could be consistent with a head wound but then sort of dismissed that and went on to say in her estimation it was probably coughed up. If I remember correctly...gawd, that lady's testimony feels like years ago!

The low blood spatter on the walls indicates Travis was down and it wasn’t self-defense bleeding at that point.

Lisa Perry is back on the stand.

A lot of the blood spots don’t give a clear indication of how they got there.

The bath scale, there were bloodstain were on the top and the bottom of the scale.

In the sink area Perry says the area at the front of the sink appears to be diluted as with water and it appears there are swipes or wipes.

In the sink, the blood source was above the sink and there was some motion over the top of the sink.

So, Travis was moving over the sink as he was bleeding, probably hanging on the sink to steady himself.

There were blood spots on the mirror and just below the bottom of mirror. The spatter could have come from someone coughing or sneezing if they had blood in their airway.

Perry says the bullet casing landed in the blood that was already there.

So the casing was placed there after the blood was deposited there? Yes.

So the person was already bleeding? Yes.

Perry feels a decent amount of blood had to have been present in the closet area.

The larger spots of blood could have been a pooling of blood or the victim was lying there for a period of time.

Martinez has moved to the hallway. The blood is linear on the wall and indicates blood coming in contact with a surface.

Parts of the floor are bloody and parts are clear. Perry says the clear area could have mixed with water. Perry says that bloody areas could be from someone how was actively bleeding.

The really large pool of blood on the hallway carpet shows lighter areas that could be someone walked through it. Also after inspection, the underneath of carpet indicated water had soaked through the underneath. The carpet butts up against the tile area of the hall.

So much of the blood on the lower parts of the walls and baseboards indicate a blood source came in contact with them.

Apologies for the length! It's become rather difficult to find stuff at Donchais' blog so I just copied the relevant info from here: http://callsforjustice.wordpress.com/2013/01/page/2/

 

[katiedid2]

Hugs to you.

Hugs to you too Linda I can't imagine! What it's like!

 

[kayice]

I don't think there's much of an "if" about it... not with what I just read about in the LE report.

Incident Report (page 04 per the viewer):
http://twitdoc.com/upload/zou2/ja-gun-issue.pdf

I swear to G-d that Jodi herself used the words "25 auto", because I was shocked when listening to the tapes. I was surprised because I missed all the first part of trial and was catching up, I already heard them ask if she knew about guns in court so to hear her say auto was surprising. I wonder if they missed her saying...but, it would not be the first time, I'm wrong. Don't think so though.

still watching HLN, omg...when they first showed Jodi that picture of her dragging Travis...she said that's not me, that's his bathroom. Never mind bloody Travis dead. Psycho.

 

[ilovewings]

They split 7-5 on tonight's vote. JA's history of tire slashing could make the difference with the real Jury deciding her fate as to whether or not she brought a knife with her.
MOO

I have always liked Judge Alex; he hit the jackpot when he said the reason Jodi brought the knife was to inflict as much pain and suffering on Travis as she possibly could. IMO she wanted to torture him; she did not just kill him; she slaughtered him viciously, savagely, sadistically. of course she could have just shot him but that was not enough for her, nope. i hope juan goes that route to get the point across to the jury why grodi would have brought the knife with her.

 

[Trainfan34]

HLN's "reenactment" is NOT even close to the real evidence..

I missed the show on HLN with a live reenactment of the crime scene, which I think the jury should have went to but he was up high at the sink. Which if he was stabbed in the chest, I don't think he would have been able to keep walking.

 

[panthera]

I want to put an end to the whole debate as to whether and why Jodi would bring a knife and a gun with her -- Here is why along with supporting evidence: Jodi planned all along to kill Travis with a knife and a gun in order to make it look like TWO people killed him because a two-person attack would almost certainly eliminate single jealous lovers such as Jodi as suspects. The fact that Jodi wanted it to look like two people killed Travis also explains why Jodi shot Travis after she already had slit his throat and he was surely dead or dying. The proof that this was her intent all along lies in her own words - when she called Detective Flores before she was arrested, at the end of the call she made sure she asked whether he thought it was more than one person who attacked Travis. She made a big point of asking him if it was more than one killer. She claims that was the rumor at the time, and she just wanted to ask Flores if that was true. But I bet you cannot find one person who told her that rumor. In fact, the cops thought all along that it was Jodi. So, once again, she brought the knife and the gun to make it look like a brutal attack beyond something that she would or could have done alone. Once they thought it was two suspects, she figured she would be out of the line of suspicion.

Exactly!!!

MOO


Good night everyone!
:seeya: