Lowe's Pulls Ads From American Muslim Time Slot

[jjw]

Just to be clear:
Nova is a he, not a she.

thanks. sorry,nova

 

[TrackerSam]

1)3)This group decided to act on it by starting that petition. All-American Muslim does not deserve to have ads pulled because the people on the show are not their idea of what a Muslim is.:banghead:
jmo

You're wrong IMO. This group knows that not all Muslims are violent extremists. They petitioned because the show depicts only one side of the coin. "profiles only Muslims that appear to be ordinary folks while excluding many Islamic believers whose agenda poses a clear and present danger to the liberties and traditional values that the majority of Americans cherish."
Major Hasan, the Ft. Hood shooter, is an American. Colleen R. LaRose, aka Jihad Jane, Ramy Zamzam, Umar Farooq, Waqar Khan, Ahmad Mini, and Aman Hassan Yemer, are Americans.
Pakistani police showed the pictures and the U.S. passports of the five young college students from the Washington, D.C., suburbs, who authorities say had come to Pakistan to train for jihad.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/pakistan-americans-recruited-jihad-terror-deported-us/story?id=9306856

There are more. They exist. Let's not pretend they don't.

 

[jjw]

Wow.
So they need to find terrorists to show how bad Muslims can be? Do you really think that extremists who are plotting against America are going to be on a t.v. show and give all of their plans away? Terrorists are not going to line up to be on TLC programming. I guess all reality shows with Christian families should have Fred Phelps types on to give them a balanced account. Ridiculous. People are not so stupid they don't know extremists exist.

Again, most Muslims in America are law-abiding citizens and should not have to be shown in comparison to those who use that religion for evil acts. Two different types of people completely. The Americansshown on All-American Muslim do not represent those people, and to think they should have to share airtime with terrorists because they share the same faith is offensive.

 

[TrackerSam]

Wow.
So they need to find terrorists to show how bad Muslims can be? Do you really think that extremists who are plotting against America are going to be on a t.v. show and give all of their plans away? Terrorists are not going to line up to be on TLC programming. I guess all reality shows with Christian families should have Fred Phelps types on to give them a balanced account. Ridiculous. People are not so stupid they don't know extremists exist.

Again, most Muslims in America are law-abiding citizens and should not have to be shown in comparison to those who use that religion for evil acts. Two different types of people completely. The Americansshown on All-American Muslim do not represent those people, and to think they should have to share airtime with terrorists because they share the same faith is offensive.

No one's entertaining such a rediculous notion.
You purposefully mischaracterized the group's statement claiming they started the petition because the people on the show didn't fit their description of what a Muslim is. They started the petition not because of what's being depicted but rather what's being left out since by it's own title, 'American Muslim', should be all inclusive. To exclude extremists is to forget what happened on 9/11, and that is truly offensive.
Do you think you can force Lowes to advertise? That would also be offensive.

 

[rossva]

Has absloutely nothing to do with this matter. Freeedom of religion on applies in regards to the government; not private enterprise.

Freedom of religon??

 

[jjw]

No one's entertaining such a rediculous notion.
You purposefully mischaracterized the group's statement claiming they started the petition because the people on the show didn't fit their description of what a Muslim is. They started the petition not because of what's being depicted but rather what's being left out since by it's own title, 'American Muslim', should be all inclusive. To exclude extremists is to forget what happened on 9/11, and that is truly offensive.
Do you think you can force Lowes to advertise? That would also be offensive.

I didn't mischaracterize anything their statement is very clear. Again what do the people on All-American Muslim have to do with 9/11? NOTHING. Because some extremists of the Muslim faith attacked us, all Muslims must come with a warning attached. NO. I will never forget 9/11 but don't feel the need to blame anyone but Al Qaeda for that horrible day.

I will not hold Muslims accountable for the actions of terrorists .

Terrorists are SICK, delusional,and hateful people who kill and attack people for their own twisted reasons. Terrorists use religion as an excuse. Those who participate in terrorist attacks are responsible for their actions, NO ONE ELSE. To hold other people of the same faith responsible for their sick actions is offensive.

I would be willing to bet the families shown on All-American Muslim would not want to participate on a show with terrorists, nor should they be expected to.The idea that these citizens in order to have a show about their lives must also share screen time with terrorists to make people happy is beyond sad.:furious:

So if a group of terrorists attacked us and they said they did it in the name of Jesus, would you feel the same way? Any show that depicted followers of Jesus would need to include people who want to terrorize people under the guise of Christianity? As a Christian, I would be offended that murderers used my faith as an excuse for their actions and would never want to be associated with those type of people. None of us would and that includes Muslim-Americans who love this country.

Remember there were Muslims who died on 9/11 also.

If you read my other statements, I did not say Lowe's must advertise. It was their reasons for doing so that was offensive to me. It has also offended several others.

jmo

 

[jjw]

What is the Florida Family Association's description of what a Muslim is exactly?

 

[TrackerSam]

What is the Florida Family Association's description of what a Muslim is exactly?

Answer it for yourself since you're the one who pretends to know. Their statement is clear. The show doesn't portray all Muslims as the title implys. The show should be called 'Some, Maybe Alot, of American Muslims Who Help Little Old Ladies Across The Street And Stuff And would Never Think Of Bombing Anyone'. It's write ridiculous posts day.

To quote you " I did not say Lowe's must advertise". And I did not claim that you did. It was a question.

 

[UFO]

I just got through this thread. My head hurts.

My two cents is Lowe's had every right to pull their ads. Like some have said, it is THEIR money. But, Lowe's has to live with their decision whether it effects their business positively or negatively. It's all about $$$ and the bottom line. The people at Lowe's made this decision as a business decision and they are betting that it will reflect positively on their bottom line.

My expereience leads me to believe corporations do not make choices that lose them money. It's just not in their best interest.

 

[Nova]

Just a really quick note to Nova, and then I'm getting the heck outta dodge...

In the jewish tradition, if a girl lost her virginity (*whether intentional or not) before she began menarche, she was considered spoiled, and "trash"....

Thank you, Cats. For what it's worth, sex with underage boys has been either celebrated or at least tolerated in most world cultures until the past couple of centuries. This was precisely because boys didn't have an economic value that was spoiled by a loss of virginity. (I am not arguing this was a good system, just saying that it reflects the economic bases that you describe being applied to girls.)

But speaking of Christian cultures, I'm sure you know that it was the custom for centuries to marry off (pre-menstruation) children from among the aristocracy in order to cement treaties and alliances. Some of these children were married by proxy and only "delivered" when they reached puberty; some were delivered immediately. This practice is usually depicted with illustrations of two 7-year-olds having a tiny wedding, but in fact there was nothing to prevent a 7-year-old being married to an adult.

And these nobles were supposedly "guardians of the (Christian) faith."

As children's workhouses showed as recently as 150 years ago, children used to be treated as "little adults" for legal purposes. They simply didn't have the protections we all agree they should have today.

Mohammed doesn't really stand out in this regard.

 

[Nova]

But 9 is most definitely a child.

And Mohammed had sexual relations with the child.

Much different than an immaculate conception IMO.

I realize not everybody believes in the way The Bible tells the story.

I'm not trying to get into a religious debate. But trying to compare someone who actually had intercourse with a 9 year old to God is a little bit out there.

JMO

I'm not an expert on the Qu'ran, but I know enough to understand it is written in metaphorical language, just like the OT and NT. (Suicide bombers take note: the promised 72 virgins are probably not waiting for you.)

Although the Qu'ran may make reference to historical events, it isn't actually a history book. Writing that Mohammad's bride was 9 may just have been a way to metaphorically emphasize her youth and "purity". Until the advent of DNA, men apparently harbored deep-seated fears that their children might not be their own. (World literature is full of such doubts.) Claiming that Mohammad's wife was very young was one way to establish her credentials.

If one is a Biblical literalist, then God capriciously killed Job's wife and all of his children just to settle a wager. Earlier God had Abraham make it clear to Isaac that Isaac's life was worth next to nothing. (Must have been nice growing up knowing that Dad might kill you at any time if the voice in his head said to do so!)

Judging a religion based on pre-modern, poetic writings is at best misleading.

 

[Nova]

Read Qua'ran 65:4

Here's an argument about what that and similar passages mean:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pedophilia_in_the_Qur'an




To me the moral is clear: rational people should know better than to go looking for rules or facts in old books of poetry.

 

[Nova]

Watch the throwing around the term bigots here please. Don't knock small vocal groups who have a right to be heard. The gay minority has a lot of power. Just try to understand you can't make everyone think exactly like you do. Like I said, just because they might feel the show is sanitized or propagandized doesn't make them bigots. They have vastly different religious beliefs. You seem to be sticking up for the Muslims' beliefs, but Christians are bigots. That is disingenuous and not you Nova.

With all due respect, ziggy, that's complete bull. Minorities speaking up in defense of civil rights is one thing; complaining that another group's secret, evil agenda hasn't been properly exposed on TV is another.

I never said all or even most Christians are bigots. I really don't have any figures on that subject.

I'm not defending Muslim beliefs. I don't know what all Muslims believe, but think fundamentalist Muslim beliefs are just as nonsensical as Christian fundamentalist beliefs. I will admit to favoring reason over superstition.

IN THE CASE WE ARE DISCUSSING and per Lowe's own statement, Lowe's gave into complaints that moderate American Muslims weren't being depicted as sufficiently murderous and evil. A group that would make such a complaint is a group of bigots. I'm assuming they are mostly Christians, since most of those TV-watchdog groups are.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Here's an argument about what that and similar passages mean:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pedophilia_in_the_Qur'an




To me the moral is clear: rational people should know better than to go looking for rules or facts in old books of poetry.

Muslims follow the Qur'an as Christians follow the teachings of Christ found in The Bible.

Neither books are "old books of poetry" IMO.

As a matter of fact, I'd say the Bible is a lifeline for many. And I'm sure most Muslims feel the same way about the Qur'an.

Dismissing either as old books of poetry is quite offensive IMO.

I'd say I'm rational.

 

[Nova]

Muslims follow the Qur'an as Christians follow the teachings of Christ found in The Bible.

Neither books are "old books of poetry" IMO.

As a matter of fact, I'd say the Bible is a lifeline for many. And I'm sure most Muslims feel the same way about the Qur'an.

Dismissing either as old books of poetry is quite offensive IMO.

I'd say I'm rational.

Offending you wasn't my intention, but I can't help it if you and others cling to non-rational beliefs. Frankly, the fact that you are willing to impose your beliefs on me and people like me is what is offensive.

What is patently absurd is your demand that the rest of us pretend faith is reason. By definition they are mutually exclusive.

So read your Bible everyday. It's a great work of literature. I'll even give you "divinely inspired." But pretending it (or the Qu'ran) is The New York Times is something else entirely.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Offending you wasn't my intention, but I can't help it if you and others cling to non-rational beliefs. Frankly, the fact that you are willing to impose your beliefs on me and people like me is what is offensive.

What is patently absurd is your demand that the rest of us pretend faith is reason. By definition they are mutually exclusive.

So read your Bible everyday. It's a great work of literature. I'll even give you "divinely inspired." But pretending it (or the Qu'ran) is The New York Times is something else entirely.

When did I impose my beliefs on you?
By discussing my beliefs, I am imposing them on you?


The New York times it is NOT! That's for sure.
Thank God.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[Trident]

Offending you wasn't my intention, but I can't help it if you and others cling to non-rational beliefs. Frankly, the fact that you are willing to impose your beliefs on me and people like me is what is offensive.

What is patently absurd is your demand that the rest of us pretend faith is reason. By definition they are mutually exclusive.

So read your Bible everyday. It's a great work of literature. I'll even give you "divinely inspired." But pretending it (or the Qu'ran) is The New York Times is something else entirely.

BBM Very true, both the Bible and the Koran were being read hundreds of years before the New York Times was a twinkle in the eye of a printing press, and will undoubtably continue to be so long after the final pages of the Times have blown down the dead canyons of NYC.

 

[Fairy1]

You're wrong IMO. This group knows that not all Muslims are violent extremists. They petitioned because the show depicts only one side of the coin. "profiles only Muslims that appear to be ordinary folks while excluding many Islamic believers whose agenda poses a clear and present danger to the liberties and traditional values that the majority of Americans cherish."
Major Hasan, the Ft. Hood shooter, is an American. Colleen R. LaRose, aka Jihad Jane, Ramy Zamzam, Umar Farooq, Waqar Khan, Ahmad Mini, and Aman Hassan Yemer, are Americans.
Pakistani police showed the pictures and the U.S. passports of the five young college students from the Washington, D.C., suburbs, who authorities say had come to Pakistan to train for jihad.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/pakistan-americans-recruited-jihad-terror-deported-us/story?id=9306856

There are more. They exist. Let's not pretend they don't.

Yes, let's not pretend. Timothy McVeigh was also an American who was not acting under a Muslim "agenda." And he's just one of many.

Round here, we see horrific acts perpetrated against others by people of all faiths and walks of life every, single day. Should we rise up against all the networks who produce shows that don't portray every imaginable side of every character of all faiths? Should we boycott all companies that advertise during those programs? THAT, would be ridiculous.

For all I know, the little old lady who lives next door or the teenager down the street pose a clear and present danger to me and my way of life. IMO, those who assume that an ENTIRE people of one faith or another are a danger to America are the most dangerous of all. And to see a huge retailer like Lowe's cave to the dictates of such small-minded folks frightens me to no end.

And as a full-grown woman, I am perfectly capable of deciding what values I cherish.

 

[animlzrule]

Offending you wasn't my intention, but I can't help it if you and others cling to non-rational beliefs. Frankly, the fact that you are willing to impose your beliefs on me and people like me is what is offensive.

What is patently absurd is your demand that the rest of us pretend faith is reason. By definition they are mutually exclusive.

So read your Bible everyday. It's a great work of literature. I'll even give you "divinely inspired." But pretending it (or the Qu'ran) is The New York Times is something else entirely.

BBM :waitasec: Really?? Historical fiction it is, but great work of literature? This argument is taking a bit of a turn towards the absurd. You can't fight fantasy with logic Nova. Don't waste your energy..... Lowe's took an indefensible stance. That people are bending over backwards to attempt to defend this corporation stymies me.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Comments like that are acceptable but Lowes pulling their advertising dollars is not?

Ok, what's rational?