MA - Bella Bond, 2, found dead, Deer Island, Boston Harbor, June 2015 - #3

[Bootsctr]

BBM Boston police have announced publicly, with confidence, that with extensive scientific testing they believe she lived in the Boston area. A professional Police sketch artist did her picture. I have to have faith that they know what their doing and because we don't have all the information they have I'm trusting what they are releasing to the public is accurate.

I will trust them too! I believe they really, really want to find out who dumped this child. I wish they would release more information.

 

[KYangel]

If you don't mind me asking, what are the traits/reasons given you usually see in people involved in such cases? Do you see it as more associated with poverty, with crime, with drugs, with a language barrier, or is it pretty evenly spread out across all groups, including 'normal' ones? There are a lot of generalizations and I feel like statistics on a lot of this would be surprising. Especially in extreme cases - those are probably just anomalies popping up in every group. Neglect is probably more correlated with resources. I feel like there is this accepted idea in this thread that these things are especially like to happen in families of other cultures, but even though cultural differences could explain a lot of relatively minor differences (i.e. when a child is old enough to be left alone, the degree to which one trusts authority, gender roles, whether or not hitting a child - and by that I do not mean beating a child - is ok), I've never gotten the impression that child murder was especially high in any culture.

This is kind of a tangent, but I saw a documentary on aging diseases, and it really spotlighted the differences in attitudes toward healthcare. I was already aware of the fact that most people in the world have almost no access, and was shocked by how many people would wonder why a poor woman in India who had been carrying a calcified fetus for decades hadn't addressed it or been aware of what was going on. But the documentary was about a young girl who actually had 'cretinism' due to a lack of growth hormone. she'd stayed about two years old physically and mentally for 30 years - it would have been easily reversible with modern medicine, but now she will never make much progress. She grew up in South America in poverty, but her father and stepmother were very devoted and seemed intelligent, and their village was not incredibly isolated. They were aware of a lot and had a radio and some modern things, but had never been on a bus or to the doctor because it was expensive and no one did it. It just never occurred to them at all to bring her to a doctor, even though she was a burden as a perpetual child. Her mother was dead, her father was elderly and had to marry a young woman to care for her. But they just accepted that.

Wow, lots of wonderful, insightful questions! Although I can't answer some sufficiently, I'll share what I've observed and or learned myself...

***Traits/reasons usually given by people who'd do what the social 'norm' considers inhumane to their child but the person may try to explain? I think there's obvious differences to any group or class of people with regard to customs and acceptable behavior, and as previously stated my custom of normal may seem horrific or weird to another. I was raised Baptist, as an example our religious funeral custom was to visit our loved ones for the funeral at a funeral home. My husband, raised in the town next to mine was raised Catholic and once we married I found it really weird and kind of creepy when he told me his aunts visitation and funeral was IN THE CHURCH. my religious funeral was a "fire and brimstone" sermon (like Sunday except diff topic but the Catholic was NOT - it was family/friends sharing fond memories and lots of laughter and happiness (and a small Amy of Priest prayer). I never met his aunt, but I left her funeral crying happy tears for her, it was the best funeral of my life. I realize it's important to acknowledge other people may have different rituals, some may seem odd, but if I allow myself to consider my way isn't the only acceptable way then all views/ways are not always bad. In work, I deal with a lot of families with little financial means. 30 minutes from here many are born and raised in the mountains, most never leave, and they have their own very real and different culture. Most have no indoor plumbing, bathe infrequently, do not receive regular healthcare/dental care. Although in my life it would seem crazy to not have a toilet inside, for them it's simply never been an option. Much of their children's healthcare and dental services are provided by outreach programs that visit the local schools and is free. Many children also may only have their school provided meals (free breakfast/lunch) and their family may not have the means to feed them dinner at night. Teachers ask these kids every day if they're hungry, if the family needs food, and food backpacks are sent home on weekends for the family to have one or two meals until school resumes. Not all families live like this, must more do than don't. These are not immigrant families, they are natives. It's customary for females to drop out of school often very early to help raise her siblings, and males will drop out to farm. They have little education, little support to continue to high school or post secondary schools. Most have few or no teeth and no dentures by 25-30 years old. It is their mountain culture, it is accepted and acceptable in their community. Many heat/cook with wood, no electric sometimes, these are not required for children but are considered a choice but not necessity under law. As long as child is clean, not abused, not neglected, no reported drug or other problems they're free to live life as they wish. They're very isolated. Sure TV and radio is available, few can afford pay TV, maybe a couple local channels if they have electric and an way to pick up local TV free signal. Many I know don't have TV, phone, never have. Crime is high, there's little to do except farm, make babies, and make meth. Families split up. They have mental illness like depression just like everyone. They have tight nit family groups, they have abusive relationships... Some things are always a constant no matter which groups you consider. Medical neglect would be real if school didn't assist. I'm sure as in any society neglect and abuse of all types go un and under reported. There's fear of cops, CPS, govt, strangers with different customs/ideas. But there's lots of wonderful families there too.

We have undocumented and documented immigrants, literally and surprisingly to me at first from a great number of ethnic and cultural backgrounds. African asylums, political refugees from Lybia, victims of sex exploitation with asylum, and the usual run of the mill Central America and Mexican undocumented. Customs and traditions and gender roles that differ are often noticed but respected by Me and coworkers. I've seen women who are not allowed to speak only the husband. I've had times I've made husband leave to have woman alone so she can talk freely. I've had clients I've arranged escape from current environments. But often they won't tell you, you have to observe them. Their eyes and their body language will give a gut feeling when things are wrong.

Murder I don't think is accepted in any culture except maybe perhaps as a martyr, and thankfully we don't have much in the U.S.

You noted the girl who didn't receive a hormone that in the U.S. would have been easily found by docs and readily available. We live in a country with so many wonderful basic rights, liberties, etc that we take for granted daily - a regular job, a decent home, internet, TV, clean water, clothes, free public education, subsidized post Ed, healthcare. Few People in the U.S. actually realize these simple pleasures we consider necessities are only a far away wish and never realized by most of the population of the world.

It's very important to be mindful that we may find it neglectful that another group doesn't go get their child immunized in the U.S. or send the child o school. But when you and your entire family have never had free healthcare, free school, you don't even realize that in the U.S. You can have it simply by asking. Even if you know it's there, you may have no English or very little. You don't understand how to seek services, and you don't know how to seek a person to help bridge the communication. Other cultures/countries often also don't allow assertion of rights like our county, women are often submissive by their culture, they're also often the caretaker of the child. They're isolated. And don't even get me started on the immense amt of fear immigrants (documented or not) have of officials bc their county they're to be revered and in our country almost all will tell you they've been victimized, racially profiled, and suffered by those who should be there to help but often abuse.

To summarize, reasons can be a combo of so many cultural, life experience or lack of knowledge, unreported crime, drugs, domestic and other perceived and received abuses. Every family has unique experiences. My apologies solo long, but congrats for reading the entire thing lol!!!


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[Floridian]

:tantrum:hmmmmm thats first i read that. Thanku for posting:great:u are right, does sound like water was all in the bag possibly.... r

I cannot rule out a boat either. They can't even tell us what race she is (not that it matters), so I don't think they positive absolutely know for sure how Baby Doe got there either. I read news articles that leaned toward she floated there to articles stating she was placed there. Even a heavy duty garbage bag like Floridian so kindly demonstrated with pictures and her getting in the bag, I think if Baby Doe was there for 2 - 4 days then being sloshed up against those sharp rocks with waves there would have been tiny holes cut into the sack allowing for water to enter. Plus, there would have been natural condensation from the heat inside the closed bag. Whomever did this was probably wearing boots to be able to maneuver those boulders while carrying 30 pounds of :notgood: dead weight - if that is how she was put there. If she was brought in by boat it would have been much simpler to lift her over the edge of the boat into the water. Just some random thoughts on the subject.

I thought I read somewhere there was very little decomposition, but then I found this:

"The autopsy had given them little more, not even a cause of death. She had no fingerprints, the tides had so damaged the skin of her hands. There were no toxins in her blood.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...nocent-lost/7UrhaGK6aHxm1MfumaOR9L/story.html

That statement makes it seem that the bag was open and her hands were exposed to the water???

 

[justwannahelp]

I cannot rule out a boat either. They can't even tell us what race she is (not that it matters), so I don't think they positive absolutely know for sure how Baby Doe got there either. I read news articles that leaned toward she floated there to articles stating she was placed there. Even a heavy duty garbage bag like Floridian so kindly demonstrated with pictures and her getting in the bag, I think if Baby Doe was there for 2 - 4 days then being sloshed up against those sharp rocks with waves there would have been tiny holes cut into the sack allowing for water to enter. Plus, there would have been natural condensation from the heat inside the closed bag. Whomever did this was probably wearing boots to be able to maneuver those boulders while carrying 30 pounds of :notgood: dead weight - if that is how she was put there. If she was brought in by boat it would have been much simpler to lift her over the edge of the boat into the water. Just some random thoughts on the subject.

I thought I read somewhere there was very little decomposition, but then I found this:

"The autopsy had given them little more, not even a cause of death. She had no fingerprints, the tides had so damaged the skin of her hands. There were no toxins in her blood.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...nocent-lost/7UrhaGK6aHxm1MfumaOR9L/story.html

That statement makes it seem that the bag was open and her hands were exposed to the water???

The conditions inside the bag would have been like a greenhouse. Steamy extremely humid and hot hot hot. Think a steam bag. Decomp in the bag was probably quicker than what would have occurred outside the bag.

 

[Floridian]

The conditions inside the bag would have been like a greenhouse. Steamy extremely humid and hot hot hot. Think a steam bag. Decomp in the bag was probably quicker than what would have occurred outside the bag.

i read somewhere, that they stated it made it easier for them that she in a bag. It preserved her somewhat, at least for them to get the pollen and things needed for test rather than being open to outside.. but that the heat and moisture in the bag does cause rapid decomp results. HEr coloring and swelling was a big factor, and i could only imagine if she had happened to of been than more than jus a day. the heat, moisture... I cant imagine being the woman that found her, and the investigators that had to take her out of the bag, her little lifeless body, little hands fingers, chubby cheeks... Just couldnt imagine being one of them.. Imagine the emotions, the heartache. Who expects to open a bag and see a dead child.. A animal maybe, but a sweet child. Thats a image and moment they will never be able to get out of there very own head. Especially when one of them stated they had a daughter close in age at home. And it will hit him hard.. i imagine as soon as he got home it was prolly one of the moments where he went straight to his child and held her in hos arms, and just kept asking how could anyone ever do something like this... Im so ready to hear ab the DNA results of Emili tomorrow, I have hopes this little girl will be named, thats what im holding onto, although if its not at least she will be ruled out and her family cant cont to search for Emili.. Both tragic events... If its not Emili, I pray somewhere someone will slip up, or come forward. It may take time, but im hoping something will happen.. lease::crossfingers:

 

[Steleheart]

I just wanted to say that I have not been able to get on much , but I have tried to follow. Thanks so much for keeping our girl out here.

I have fished off the wharf at Castle Island So I wondered if anyone wants to Google it and look. It's a hop skip and a jump across from the shore of Deer island, but when I fished there, I remember that it is deep water at high tide. I know we are focused on placing Baby Doe at the tide line on Deer Island, but I keep thinking about the drifting in from somewhere else plausibility.

I know that it was a hike from the wharf to the parking lot with a 20 pound fish and a 30+ pound deceased child in a trash bag would be so much harder, but as another poster in one of our past threads posted, what about if they used a stroller?

The wharf on Castle Island is deep water at tide and not all that shallow at low. And look at the distance from there to Baby Doe.

In the cover of night around here people can do anything, but parking on the road at Deer Island is not on my radar. Not when I look at it and not when I ponder the traffic and people at night. And I think that night is when people like this would do something like this.

MOO

 

[Steleheart]

I just wanted to say that you all are wicked pissa haha.

:loveyou:

 

[justwannahelp]

I just wanted to say that I have not been able to get on much , but I have tried to follow. Thanks so much for keeping our girl out here.

I have fished off the wharf at Castle Island So I wondered if anyone wants to Google it and look. It's a hop skip and a jump across from the shore of Deer island, but when I fished there, I remember that it is deep water at high tide. I know we are focused on placing Baby Doe at the tide line on Deer Island, but I keep thinking about the drifting in from somewhere else plausibility.

I know that it was a hike from the wharf to the parking lot with a 20 pound fish and a 30+ pound deceased child in a trash bag would be so much harder, but as another poster in one of our past threads posted, what about if they used a stroller?

The wharf on Castle Island is deep water at tide and not all that shallow at low. And look at the distance from there to Baby Doe.

In the cover of night around here people can do anything, but parking on the road at Deer Island is not on my radar. Not when I look at it and not when I ponder the traffic and people at night. And I think that night is when people like this would do something like this.

MOO

Good to know. I will look at castle island

 

[justwannahelp]

I just wanted to say that I have not been able to get on much , but I have tried to follow. Thanks so much for keeping our girl out here.

I have fished off the wharf at Castle Island So I wondered if anyone wants to Google it and look. It's a hop skip and a jump across from the shore of Deer island, but when I fished there, I remember that it is deep water at high tide. I know we are focused on placing Baby Doe at the tide line on Deer Island, but I keep thinking about the drifting in from somewhere else plausibility.

I know that it was a hike from the wharf to the parking lot with a 20 pound fish and a 30+ pound deceased child in a trash bag would be so much harder, but as another poster in one of our past threads posted, what about if they used a stroller?

The wharf on Castle Island is deep water at tide and not all that shallow at low. And look at the distance from there to Baby Doe.

In the cover of night around here people can do anything, but parking on the road at Deer Island is not on my radar. Not when I look at it and not when I ponder the traffic and people at night. And I think that night is when people like this would do something like this.

MOO

It would definitely be an easy drift. What goes on at fort independence these days - that pentagon structure on the island?

 

[ILOKAL]

I just wanted to say that I have not been able to get on much , but I have tried to follow. Thanks so much for keeping our girl out here.

I have fished off the wharf at Castle Island So I wondered if anyone wants to Google it and look. It's a hop skip and a jump across from the shore of Deer island, but when I fished there, I remember that it is deep water at high tide. I know we are focused on placing Baby Doe at the tide line on Deer Island, but I keep thinking about the drifting in from somewhere else plausibility.

I know that it was a hike from the wharf to the parking lot with a 20 pound fish and a 30+ pound deceased child in a trash bag would be so much harder, but as another poster in one of our past threads posted, what about if they used a stroller?

The wharf on Castle Island is deep water at tide and not all that shallow at low. And look at the distance from there to Baby Doe.

In the cover of night around here people can do anything, but parking on the road at Deer Island is not on my radar. Not when I look at it and not when I ponder the traffic and people at night. And I think that night is when people like this would do something like this.

MOO

Are Deer Island and Castle Island popular fishing locations? We live in a popular fishing area and fishermen bring their big coolers on wheeled fishing carts all the time. I wonder if something like that might have been used. No one would have suspected a thing.

 

[Faithandhope]

When do we hear back about Emili? I am almost certain it isn't her, but it would be nice to hear an update/confirmation either way. One more name ruled out gets her that much closer to having her name back.

 

[Bootsctr]

Good to know. I will look at castle island

I am just checking out some pictures. I have to go there! Gotta do a tour of the Fort with a Southie vet!

Deferring to locals and their knowledge of the tides and foot traffic in those areas, I think she could have come from Castle island. The suggestion of a large cooler as a cover works for me too. I think whomever did this did do it under the cover of night too. Praying for answers today! I'd like to know if she is Emili too. Baby Girl needs her name back. :sigh:

 

[SwizzleStix]

When do we hear back about Emili? I am almost certain it isn't her, but it would be nice to hear an update/confirmation either way. One more name ruled out gets her that much closer to having her name back.

I don't understand why it's taking so long. Politics maybe?

I just want to know. It just seems so strange that we've gone this long with no ID! In this day and age where everything is all about social media and our lives are so open, it's so hard to fathom!

She HAD to have a very secluded life for no one to have recognized her. Or the pic is way off. Ugh! It's so heartbreaking!

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[SwizzleStix]

I will trust them too! I believe they really, really want to find out who dumped this child. I wish they would release more information.

I can guarantee that there are many in LE who are haunted by her and have a need to find out who she is. They are doing everything they can. This is why they do what they do. They need the truth and will do everything they can to get it.

I can't even imagine how frustrating this must be to them.

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[Faithandhope]

I don't understand why it's taking so long. Politics maybe?

I just want to know. It just seems so strange that we've gone this long with no ID! In this day and age where everything is all about social media and our lives are so open, it's so hard to fathom!

She HAD to have a very secluded life for no one to have recognized her. Or the pic is way off. Ugh! It's so heartbreaking!

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I assume that they had the results sooner, but set a "date" for announcing the results later than when they knew they would get them back. That way if it was her, they would have time to try to figure out how she got there without the public getting the info first (including those responsible).

however, sometimes DNA stuff takes an incredibly long time... Jason/Grateful Doe still doesn't really have his name back and that has been forever now and not one update.

 

[jillybean51]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2015/09/01/babydoe/QZf1jEuy7aWLjiTqYkw16M/story.html
Water results from isotopes show Baby Doe was local but also had travelled across the country.They haven't compared to other countries yet...

 

[jillybean51]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/boston-baby-doe-mystery-isotope-analysis-latest-piece/story?id=33459730
ABC reported the same but the report is dated Sept 1 .WTH

 

[LoyalSleuth]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/boston-baby-doe-mystery-isotope-analysis-latest-piece/story?id=33459730
ABC reported the same but the report is dated Sept 1 .WTH

the Boston Globe article was dated Sept 1 as well.

 

[jillybean51]

the Boston Globe article was dated Sept 1 as well.

:loveyou:Good to see you Loyal! Been a long time since the Boucher case!

 

[LoyalSleuth]

:loveyou:Good to see you Loyal! Been a long time since the Boucher case!

Jelly, thanks for remembering me!
:drumroll: I am back! LOL, I have been here all along, but not the same as on that one...
What a doosie! :facepalm:

This poor baby girl, my gosh - we just have to find out who she is and who the heck did this to her...

I am leaning towards Emili, it just makes sense and I do see a resemblance between baby doe and Emili... Could be.. Then we can move on to the who, what, where, why (if there can really be a why) :thinking: