MA - Bella Bond, 2, found dead, Deer Island, Boston Harbor, June 2015 - #3

[KYangel]

There are plenty of ways to abuse children that do not include bruises, visible neglect or other physical signs, sadly. There are even ways to sexually abuse a child that leave few or no visible signs after the fact. It's all about degree, really, but at the end of the day, abuse is still abuse even when it leaves no noticeable bruises or broken bones. I can't think of too many scenarios in which she was beloved and cherished as she deserved to be that would have ended up with her dead, unidentified, stuffed in a trash bag and dumped. This strikes me as far more sinister. jmo, jme, moo.

You are absolutely correct. Through my work I've seen things done to babies and children, here in "small town USA" In a pleasant little Midwestern town voted a top ten small town of the U.S., that would make any human cry. Three month old infants raped by men, two year olds with multiple internal fractures from sexual and physical abuse, and small children with their insides ripped apart. There are evil, vile people everywhere. And even those who don't abuse sometimes neglect. One in ten newborns in my community are born addicted to drugs, so addicted their skin is wrinkled, no fat underneath, they scream for hours and days as they shake in despair, because Mom chose heroin or pain pills or meth while pregnant. Our society has horrible issues, and our children are suffering.

Under no circumstances is it ever acceptable to leave your child like a sack of trash, and I will never think it is. But I do know from experience the reasons that are given. Yes, 99 percent of the time it is a horrible, vicious excuse. But I also do know that regardless of my opinion or the opinion of any other man or woman I still have to deal with the fact that immigration exists, and these are the reasons that are plausible (lack of financial means for burial, fear of persecution). It doesn't make it right but sadly in our society it happens. And sometimes not because the parents intentionally harmed the child (but sometimes yes), but because there is a language barrier, a culture barrier, and other barriers that co exists. Most U.S. citizens and quite a few illegals are well aware that they can seek and receive health care for their child without fear of deportment, but many have have learned this through time, community friend (often family/friends who they trust who share the information), but they often don't know it is so easily and readily available.

In many cultures, healthcare for anyone is not free or easily accessible. If they were in their home country, they may not seek out immunizations, doctors, antibiotics, etc because they have never been exposed to modern healthcare themselves, and even if they are aware of modern healthcare in their country it may only be available to those with status, certainly not those who are poor or desperate, seeking refuge in another land.

The U.S. houses many nationalities of immigrants. Many are from third world countries, many of these countries would make Mexico look like a progressive country in some ways. Also, some cultures and religions bury their loved ones at sea (common practice) just as we typically bury or cremate. And although we may find this barbaric and I humane to place our child in a bag and sent to the sea, other cultures may find our customs barbaric.

In New England it is legal to have a burial at sea, and there is a business that caters to those who wish to have these. Bodies are taken out to sea a distance, not embalmed, in a vinyl bag, and placed overboard. In Florida, it is illegal, nevertheless, there are thriving businesses that do this very service, even advertising it publicly. They assert that the large population of Cuban/Mexican and illegal immigrants in the state of Florida demands this type of service as they don't have the financial means for a U.S. sanctioned burial so for $500 Your loved one will be slipped into the sea.

I'm not condoning it, but I'm aware and acknowledging that these are problems within our society, acceptable means and customs to some people for burial, and despite my personal view, this happens.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Bootsctr]

Well, in Baby Doe's case, screw all customs, so-called acceptable means of disposal of a body and culture, I hope they catch the person who did this and prosecute them to the full extent of the law. This is America and in America, we don't dump babies in garbage bags in the ocean by the side of the road. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

 

[ILOKAL]

You are absolutely correct. Through my work I've seen things done to babies and children, here in "small town USA" In a pleasant little Midwestern town voted a top ten small town of the U.S., that would make any human cry. Three month old infants raped by men, two year olds with multiple internal fractures from sexual and physical abuse, and small children with their insides ripped apart. There are evil, vile people everywhere. And even those who don't abuse sometimes neglect. One in ten newborns in my community are born addicted to drugs, so addicted their skin is wrinkled, no fat underneath, they scream for hours and days as they shake in despair, because Mom chose heroin or pain pills or meth while pregnant. Our society has horrible issues, and our children are suffering.

Under no circumstances is it ever acceptable to leave your child like a sack of trash, and I will never think it is. But I do know from experience the reasons that are given. Yes, 99 percent of the time it is a horrible, vicious excuse. But I also do know that regardless of my opinion or the opinion of any other man or woman I still have to deal with the fact that immigration exists, and these are the reasons that are plausible (lack of financial means for burial, fear of persecution). It doesn't make it right but sadly in our society it happens. And sometimes not because the parents intentionally harmed the child (but sometimes yes), but because there is a language barrier, a culture barrier, and other barriers that co exists. Most U.S. citizens and quite a few illegals are well aware that they can seek and receive health care for their child without fear of deportment, but many have have learned this through time, community friend (often family/friends who they trust who share the information), but they often don't know it is so easily and readily available.

In many cultures, healthcare for anyone is not free or easily accessible. If they were in their home country, they may not seek out immunizations, doctors, antibiotics, etc because they have never been exposed to modern healthcare themselves, and even if they are aware of modern healthcare in their country it may only be available to those with status, certainly not those who are poor or desperate, seeking refuge in another land.

The U.S. houses many nationalities of immigrants. Many are from third world countries, many of these countries would make Mexico look like a progressive country in some ways. Also, some cultures and religions bury their loved ones at sea (common practice) just as we typically bury or cremate. And although we may find this barbaric and I humane to place our child in a bag and sent to the sea, other cultures may find our customs barbaric.

In New England it is legal to have a burial at sea, and there is a business that caters to those who wish to have these. Bodies are taken out to sea a distance, not embalmed, in a vinyl bag, and placed overboard. In Florida, it is illegal, nevertheless, there are thriving businesses that do this very service, even advertising it publicly. They assert that the large population of Cuban/Mexican and illegal immigrants in the state of Florida demands this type of service as they don't have the financial means for a U.S. sanctioned burial so for $500 Your loved one will be slipped into the sea.

I'm not condoning it, but I'm aware and acknowledging that these are problems within our society, acceptable means and customs to some people for burial, and despite my personal view, this happens.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Here's some information about full body burial at sea. Apparently it is not cost effective and requires a lot of red tape.

http://www.seaservices.com/directburial.htm

 

[cvaldez1975]

No thx

That would be in the mitochondrial dna test.

 

[Amonet]

I think that aside from the place the body was left perhaps having some meaning to the person who left her there, it's also worth thinking that this person doesn't want anyone to make the connection between them and Baby Doe. They probably don't live too close, but as it's a location that's almost like the end of a dead-end road, I don't think they live too far. As I've said in a previous post, if you go to the outskirts of the city (north/northwest/west) there are plenty of green areas that might be plausible for leaving a dead body, but they chose to drive in this direction. It might have been a somewhat directionless drive that just happened to end there, it might not have been a planned thing. Or it might have been planned and with that place as the intended location before they even got in the car. I'm not a driver and I'm not in the US, but these are the two things that I feel from looking at the road system on Google maps that lead to that island....it looks like a freeway or highway system that goes there? They could have got onto that system and just hoped that there'd be something come up out the window that would call to them in some way as a good place to put this bag with a body in it that would not directly connect to them.

I agree that when thinking about these things we're trying to get into the head of someone who's acting in a way that's antithetical to us, we are in no way making any excuses for what they've done.

But it's an unusual case that the caregiver did this. They may have had 24 hours or so to think about whether or not to call in a missing person's report, and they chose not to. They didn't suspect that anyone was going to ask after Baby Doe's whereabouts, or they thought they had a very good answer to give anyone who did ask.

Does any of this help us get any closer to who the person was who left that little girl there or who her 'family' were (regardless of type of relationship to the people who she considered 'family')? I think this is also one of the keys for LE....the information they are looking for and releasing (two different things), they have to be asking themselves two questions (maybe others, but these two seem important to mention), one is whether or not it helps to find this little girl's identity, and the other is to keep her case in the news for public awareness -- and also to keep giving little nudges to the caregiver/person who left her there/someone who has an itching in the back of their mind that they might know who she is/was.

The other thing I wanted to post about was the genetics/race issue. I think that kind of testing has come a long way in the last 10 years or so, and I'm probably a bit out of touch on it. There are a lot of for-profit companies that do this kind of testing to tell someone what their family's history is. The easiest thing for a girl is going to be the mitochondrial DNA profile, which should tell them some rough information...caucasian from European background, Jewish ancestry, African ancestry (even a white person could be carrying African mitochondrial DNA), Native American (North or South, and then let's not forget that is mixed in with Hispanic from the Iberian peninsula?). This doesn't tell them very much. It's only information about one grandparent out of four, one great-grandparent out of 16, and so on. So how useful is this really to Law Enforcement in tracking down the person who left that baby on the Deer Island? It's not just about satisfying curiosity, it's also got to take into consideration how useful it is in the tasks they have of finding out who Baby Doe was, who left her there, what were the circumstances of her death, and keeping some fresh 'news' about the case in the public gaze, which includes giving someone who did live nearby or have some loose connection a clue that will ring a bell in their head and get them to pick up the phone to LE with a name.

 

[lawstudent]

[ snipped by me]

I'm not condoning it, but I'm aware and acknowledging that these are problems within our society, acceptable means and customs to some people for burial, and despite my personal view, this happens.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If you don't mind me asking, what are the traits/reasons given you usually see in people involved in such cases? Do you see it as more associated with poverty, with crime, with drugs, with a language barrier, or is it pretty evenly spread out across all groups, including 'normal' ones? There are a lot of generalizations and I feel like statistics on a lot of this would be surprising. Especially in extreme cases - those are probably just anomalies popping up in every group. Neglect is probably more correlated with resources. I feel like there is this accepted idea in this thread that these things are especially like to happen in families of other cultures, but even though cultural differences could explain a lot of relatively minor differences (i.e. when a child is old enough to be left alone, the degree to which one trusts authority, gender roles, whether or not hitting a child - and by that I do not mean beating a child - is ok), I've never gotten the impression that child murder was especially high in any culture.

This is kind of a tangent, but I saw a documentary on aging diseases, and it really spotlighted the differences in attitudes toward healthcare. I was already aware of the fact that most people in the world have almost no access, and was shocked by how many people would wonder why a poor woman in India who had been carrying a calcified fetus for decades hadn't addressed it or been aware of what was going on. But the documentary was about a young girl who actually had 'cretinism' due to a lack of growth hormone. she'd stayed about two years old physically and mentally for 30 years - it would have been easily reversible with modern medicine, but now she will never make much progress. She grew up in South America in poverty, but her father and stepmother were very devoted and seemed intelligent, and their village was not incredibly isolated. They were aware of a lot and had a radio and some modern things, but had never been on a bus or to the doctor because it was expensive and no one did it. It just never occurred to them at all to bring her to a doctor, even though she was a burden as a perpetual child. Her mother was dead, her father was elderly and had to marry a young woman to care for her. But they just accepted that.

 

[heartgoesout]

well, in baby doe's case, screw all customs, so-called acceptable means of disposal of a body and culture, i hope they catch the person who did this and prosecute them to the full extent of the law. This is america and in america, we don't dump babies in garbage bags in the ocean by the side of the road. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

amen!

 

[Floridian]

Ive been going thru missing women cases around the Mass area, then when I expand the search OMG there are just so many. Was curious if maybe our girl possibly had a mother and something happened to the mother, and could've been reported missing then someone took our girl, and something happened to her.. Was hoping maybe in details of any missing women in that area it might mention she was a mother.... I did see a few but they were mothers of little boys... Some of them would say missing woman, mother of 3 year old.... is just a example..... Im desperate, dont know how I wouldve compared the missing mother to our girl, didnt think that far ahead....
Im convinced either her pic is completely off, or shes def not from that area, and she hasnt been there long enough for someone to notice who she is, and that shes even missing from there.... Soot was on her around her, its very possible her short time being there she was in hiding, camping... Hiding her because whoever had her , shouldn't have had her in the first place. Hopefully LE have been to campgrounds camp areas questioning people about her..:banghead::dunno: I am curious if LE has reached out to other countries like Mexico etc, with the image....

 

[Bootsctr]

I certainly hope LE has reached out to Mexico, Canada and ... Wasn't Peru mentioned too?

I know, like you mentioned Floridian, they could have been using camp grounds and living at camp grounds. We just don't know.

If the parents were migrants from Mexico, undocumented or otherwise, they may have traveled as far as Canada to work - be it in the fields or in the food industry - they could have been headed back to Mexico and swung through Massachusetts to look for work, visit relatives in the area, etc. before continuing south.

Here's what makes me very, very sad:

"I think about her alone on the rocks and I wonder if she knew what was happening in those final moments. What was going through that little head?” said Conley, the Suffolk district attorney. “It just breaks my heart, and it lights a fire under us to keep going.”

He pleaded for her caregiver to come forward.

“It’s time for that person to do the right thing now and come clean about who she is and how she died,” Conley said. “Give her back her identity. Give her back her name.”

Eventually, officials will have to confront the question of whether to bury Baby Doe.

For now, her body is zipped into a black bag on a shelf inside an industrial walk-in cooler at the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner on Albany Street in Boston. She is surrounded by other bodies. She is identified by a bar code."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...nocent-lost/7UrhaGK6aHxm1MfumaOR9L/story.html

God bless the detectives who are working this case. I know it is eating away at them as it is eating away at us.

fftopic: For Floridian: Have they caught that giant King Cobra snake running loose in your part of the country? I hope so because I can't quit thinking about that deadly snake :snake: running around loose. :hills:

 

[Bootsctr]

Okay, we wondered about sexual abuse, but felt like that had been ruled out. This guy here, Assistant DA David Deakin, is speaking out and I think if Little Baby Doe had been brutalized sexually he would have spoken out. Here is what he did say:

"“How do you have a girl who is well cared for disappear and no one’s missing her?” said Assistant District Attorney David Deakin, chief of the Family Protection and Sexual Assault Bureau for Suffolk District Attorney Daniel F. Conley. “Maybe there are people missing her, but they’re afraid to come forward.”

But there is also a third possibility that investigators have not ruled out: that Baby Doe was murdered.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...nocent-lost/7UrhaGK6aHxm1MfumaOR9L/story.html

 

[jillybean51]

Here's what I'm wondering.....Assuming baby Doe was placed on the beach ,the night before,how is it that putrefaction had set in and made her unidentifiable so fast?Was she dead in the bag for a longer period of time ,before she was placed on the beach?
Also assuming she was placed at night,in the dark,those are some bad a$$ boulders to carry a heavy garbage bag over and not break your neck.The concrete wall is also quite high looking .Still thinking she was brought by boat.....:dunno:

 

[Faithandhope]

This is just a peek into a different type of culture (certainly not condoning, just explaining)...

I have a friend whose family and friends would never go to the police if something happened. They handle affairs internally. When someone does something criminal, they are angry about it but would never ever turn them in. In fact, they would hide them. Of course I'm not talking about murder, just petty stuff, but the thought process is that LE is not your friend, they are the enemy and no matter how wrong one of your own is, you dont go to the police.

That whole attitude to me was just so shocking. This friend is a great person with morals. I just couldn't believe this is how they lived and how they grew up. I have many police officers In my family and have many officer friends too, so my view of LE is so different.

This is why I still believe that our girl could have easily grown up in the area (as part of a community who does not go to LE).

 

[Floridian]

on the very first thread, someone explained the decomp process and whats happens immediately once blood supply and air is cut off.. from what i remember, the skin starts turning a blackish purplish and thats within jus a few hours, then internally things start souring. u can go back and look.. and her being in the bag heat moisture didint help the process..... that what is posted somewhere in the very first thread..

Here's what I'm wondering.....Assuming baby Doe was placed on the beach ,the night before,how is it that putrefaction had set in and made her unidentifiable so fast?Was she dead in the bag for a longer period of time ,before she was placed on the beach?
Also assuming she was placed at night,in the dark,those are some bad a$$ boulders to carry a heavy garbage bag over and not break your neck.The concrete wall is also quite high looking .Still thinking she was brought by boat.....:dunno:

 

[Floridian]

ha, actually i heard theres more than one... As long as it dont make it to my little town, im good.... lol.....

I certainly hope LE has reached out to Mexico, Canada and ... Wasn't Peru mentioned too?

I know, like you mentioned Floridian, they could have been using camp grounds and living at camp grounds. We just don't know.

If the parents were migrants from Mexico, undocumented or otherwise, they may have traveled as far as Canada to work - be it in the fields or in the food industry - they could have been headed back to Mexico and swung through Massachusetts to look for work, visit relatives in the area, etc. before continuing south.

Here's what makes me very, very sad:

"I think about her alone on the rocks and I wonder if she knew what was happening in those final moments. What was going through that little head?” said Conley, the Suffolk district attorney. “It just breaks my heart, and it lights a fire under us to keep going.”

He pleaded for her caregiver to come forward.

“It’s time for that person to do the right thing now and come clean about who she is and how she died,” Conley said. “Give her back her identity. Give her back her name.”

Eventually, officials will have to confront the question of whether to bury Baby Doe.

For now, her body is zipped into a black bag on a shelf inside an industrial walk-in cooler at the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner on Albany Street in Boston. She is surrounded by other bodies. She is identified by a bar code."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...nocent-lost/7UrhaGK6aHxm1MfumaOR9L/story.html

God bless the detectives who are working this case. I know it is eating away at them as it is eating away at us.

fftopic: For Floridian: Have they caught that giant King Cobra snake running loose in your part of the country? I hope so because I can't quit thinking about that deadly snake :snake: running around loose. :hills:

 

[Floridian]

i think that was the everglades... im far from there...lol and yes i believe they caught it

I certainly hope LE has reached out to Mexico, Canada and ... Wasn't Peru mentioned too?

I know, like you mentioned Floridian, they could have been using camp grounds and living at camp grounds. We just don't know.

If the parents were migrants from Mexico, undocumented or otherwise, they may have traveled as far as Canada to work - be it in the fields or in the food industry - they could have been headed back to Mexico and swung through Massachusetts to look for work, visit relatives in the area, etc. before continuing south.

Here's what makes me very, very sad:

"I think about her alone on the rocks and I wonder if she knew what was happening in those final moments. What was going through that little head?” said Conley, the Suffolk district attorney. “It just breaks my heart, and it lights a fire under us to keep going.”

He pleaded for her caregiver to come forward.

“It’s time for that person to do the right thing now and come clean about who she is and how she died,” Conley said. “Give her back her identity. Give her back her name.”

Eventually, officials will have to confront the question of whether to bury Baby Doe.

For now, her body is zipped into a black bag on a shelf inside an industrial walk-in cooler at the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner on Albany Street in Boston. She is surrounded by other bodies. She is identified by a bar code."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...nocent-lost/7UrhaGK6aHxm1MfumaOR9L/story.html

God bless the detectives who are working this case. I know it is eating away at them as it is eating away at us.

fftopic: For Floridian: Have they caught that giant King Cobra snake running loose in your part of the country? I hope so because I can't quit thinking about that deadly snake :snake: running around loose. :hills:

 

[ILOKAL]

Okay, we wondered about sexual abuse, but felt like that had been ruled out. This guy here, Assistant DA David Deakin, is speaking out and I think if Little Baby Doe had been brutalized sexually he would have spoken out. Here is what he did say:

"“How do you have a girl who is well cared for disappear and no one’s missing her?” said Assistant District Attorney David Deakin, chief of the Family Protection and Sexual Assault Bureau for Suffolk District Attorney Daniel F. Conley. “Maybe there are people missing her, but they’re afraid to come forward.”

But there is also a third possibility that investigators have not ruled out: that Baby Doe was murdered.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...nocent-lost/7UrhaGK6aHxm1MfumaOR9L/story.html

I know there are some poisons/toxins that don't show up on most autopsies, but other than that, what kinds of murder wouldn't be identified during autopsy?

 

[Bootsctr]

Here's what I'm wondering.....Assuming baby Doe was placed on the beach ,the night before,how is it that putrefaction had set in and made her unidentifiable so fast?Was she dead in the bag for a longer period of time ,before she was placed on the beach?
Also assuming she was placed at night,in the dark,those are some bad a$$ boulders to carry a heavy garbage bag over and not break your neck.The concrete wall is also quite high looking .Still thinking she was brought by boat.....:dunno:

I cannot rule out a boat either. They can't even tell us what race she is (not that it matters), so I don't think they positive absolutely know for sure how Baby Doe got there either. I read news articles that leaned toward she floated there to articles stating she was placed there. Even a heavy duty garbage bag like Floridian so kindly demonstrated with pictures and her getting in the bag, I think if Baby Doe was there for 2 - 4 days then being sloshed up against those sharp rocks with waves there would have been tiny holes cut into the sack allowing for water to enter. Plus, there would have been natural condensation from the heat inside the closed bag. Whomever did this was probably wearing boots to be able to maneuver those boulders while carrying 30 pounds of :notgood: dead weight - if that is how she was put there. If she was brought in by boat it would have been much simpler to lift her over the edge of the boat into the water. Just some random thoughts on the subject.

I thought I read somewhere there was very little decomposition, but then I found this:

"The autopsy had given them little more, not even a cause of death. She had no fingerprints, the tides had so damaged the skin of her hands. There were no toxins in her blood.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...nocent-lost/7UrhaGK6aHxm1MfumaOR9L/story.html

That statement makes it seem that the bag was open and her hands were exposed to the water???

 

[Bootsctr]

I know there are some poisons/toxins that don't show up on most autopsies, but other than that, what kinds of murder wouldn't be identified during autopsy?

Oh boy! We had quite the list going...

1. An allergic reaction to something, food, bee sting, etc.
2. Asphyxiation if the child was asleep or didn't struggle much.

I thought about heat exposure but was told that was something that could be detected during an autopsy. If you have any ideas, please throw them out there. I have a :headache: from :banghead: thinking about how this baby died and no cause revealed on the autopsy - Yet. I think some of the testing will take months to get results.

 

[heartgoesout]

Ive been going thru missing women cases around the Mass area, then when I expand the search OMG there are just so many. Was curious if maybe our girl possibly had a mother and something happened to the mother, and could've been reported missing then someone took our girl, and something happened to her.. Was hoping maybe in details of any missing women in that area it might mention she was a mother.... I did see a few but they were mothers of little boys... Some of them would say missing woman, mother of 3 year old.... is just a example..... Im desperate, dont know how I wouldve compared the missing mother to our girl, didnt think that far ahead....
Im convinced either her pic is completely off, or shes def not from that area, and she hasnt been there long enough for someone to notice who she is, and that shes even missing from there.... Soot was on her around her, its very possible her short time being there she was in hiding, camping... Hiding her because whoever had her , shouldn't have had her in the first place. Hopefully LE have been to campgrounds camp areas questioning people about her..:banghead::dunno: I am curious if LE has reached out to other countries like Mexico etc, with the image....

BBM Boston police have announced publicly, with confidence, that with extensive scientific testing they believe she lived in the Boston area. A professional Police sketch artist did her picture. I have to have faith that they know what their doing and because we don't have all the information they have I'm trusting what they are releasing to the public is accurate.

 

[Bootsctr]

Oh, and here's the comment of three countries mentioned in trying to find out the identity of Baby Doe:

But now, at last, homicide detective Trooper Daniel Herman had something he hoped would narrow the sprawling investigation that had sent investigators scrambling to track down leads from Peru to India to the forests of Brazil:

Pollen."


And here's the comment by homicide detective Trooper Daniel Herman (former Army staff sergeant too - God bless him) regarding the ceremonial feel of where Baby Doe was placed:

"The little girl appeared to be between 3 and 5 years old, with long brown hair. Whoever put her in the bag had first wrapped her in her blanket. There were no marks on her body: no signs of trauma or abuse.

Herman stood up and surveyed the beach: a secluded area, hidden behind an embankment and a stand of low, scrubby trees. Did she wash up, or was she placed here? he wondered. The outcropping had an almost ceremonial feel."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...nocent-lost/7UrhaGK6aHxm1MfumaOR9L/story.html