GUILTY MA - Conrad Roy, 18, urged by friend, commits suicide, Fairhaven, 13 July 2014 #2 *guilty*

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Good Morning all,

I think MC should have been tried as an adult seeing as she was only four weeks away from her 18th birthday. We are talking only four weeks here. She was VERY well aware of her actions. Hence the statement from her when she found out that LE was taking Conrad's cell phone that his family would hate her and she could go to jail. Sounds like she was thinking clearly to me.
Does anyone know why she was tried as a youth offender instead?
Went grocery shopping yesterday and saw her face on the cover of People.
She has finally got all the attention that she craved.
 
There are many 16 and 17 yr olds and maybe younger that are charged with murder and tried in a court of law by their peers. jmo

For example the Slenderman case: Although it is just attempted murder, these were 12 yr old girls being tried as adults.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...9-Times-for-Slenderman-1&highlight=slenderman

Anyway there are more here on WS I just can't think of the names right now.

Yes I know there are many and am wondering why seeing as she was so close to the legal age of adulthood why she was not.
My opinion is she should have. Just wondering if there was some legal reason that they used.
 
Yes I know there are many and am wondering why seeing as she was so close to the legal age of adulthood why she was not.
My opinion is she should have. Just wondering if there was some legal reason that they used.

We have all seen many, many cases here where 16-,17-year-olds were tried as adults, with not a lot of bicker from their attorneys. Her attorney(s) must have done a lot of strong, fast talking to have her tried as a juvy.

I hope the judge will impose the max allowable for a juvenile. Her acts were, IMO, beyond those that a true juvenile could have planned and carried out. SMH. Maddening. I feel sure the judge acknowledges that her actions were more than a prank or a double-dog-dare gone wrong -- the real determinant here, IMO, was, as the judge (and many of us) said, Conrad getting out of his vehicle & her insisting, prompting, and cajoling him to get back in his truck and following through with her (and hers alone) plan. This crime, even it it had been done by a 13 y/o, cries out for jail/prison time of more than a few months. Grrrrrrr.
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4629850/Girl-texts-drove-boyfriend-suicide-enjoys-

above link shows MC enjoying life....until her sentencing....

I wonder if she got paid?

"Michelle Carter is seen in public for the first time since being found guilty of involuntary manslaughter for the texts she sent to her 18-year-old boyfriend before he committed suicide.
In exclusive DailyMail.com pictures, Carter, 20 is see emerging from her car at her family home in Plainville, Massachusetts."

MC's lawyer Cataldo has 30 days to file an appeal and according to this report he probably will do so.

Conrad's parents are allowed victim's impact statements.
 
Pretty sure it has to be a straight-up murder charge, for a minor to be tried as an adult (in MA.) . However "youthful offender" carries the same penalties, as adult convictions.

http://www.wbur.org/news/2015/06/15/massachusetts-law-juvenile-murder
Sbm

"In Massachusetts, individuals 14 years old or older who are charged with murder are automatically tried as adults. That's been the law since 1996. Before then, young murder suspects were handled by juvenile courts with rare exceptions."

https://www.cappettalaw.com/massachusetts-youthful-offender-defense-lawyer.html
sbbm

"In certain situations, prosecutors may feel that a commitment to DYS until the age of 18 is not a sufficient maximum penalty for a particular crime allegedly committed by a juvenile. In these circumstances, a prosecutor may try to indict the juvenile as a youthful offender. Juveniles can only be indicted as youthful offenders in certain specific circumstances. In order to be indicted as a youthful offender, a juvenile must be between the ages of 14 and 17 at the time the offense was allegedly committed."

"the majority of youthful offender charges are brought when a child falls into the 14 to 17 year old age range and is accused of a crime that involves serious bodily injury, or the threat of serious bodily harm. This section is most frequently used when a juvenile is accused of a sexual assault, an armed robbery, or an assault and battery with a dangerous weapon."

"The biggest difference between delinquency and youthful offender cases are the maximum penalties faced by the juveniles indicted as youthful offenders. A juvenile indicted as a youthful offender can be sentenced to the same maximum penalty as an adult facing the same charge. For example, an adult charged with assault and battery with a dangerous weapon faces a maximum penalty of 10 years in state prison. If a juvenile is indicted for assault and battery with a dangerous weapon, as a youthful offender they can also be sentenced to up to 10 years in state prison."
 
Pretty sure it has to be straight-up murder charge, for a minor to be tried as an adult (in MA.) . However "youthful offender" carries the same penalties, as adult convictions.

http://www.wbur.org/news/2015/06/15/massachusetts-law-juvenile-murder
Sbm

"In Massachusetts, individuals 14 years old or older who are charged with murder are automatically tried as adults. That's been the law since 1996. Before then, young murder suspects were handled by juvenile courts with rare exceptions."

https://www.cappettalaw.com/massachusetts-youthful-offender-defense-lawyer.html
sbbm

"In certain situations, prosecutors may feel that a commitment to DYS until the age of 18 is not a sufficient maximum penalty for a particular crime allegedly committed by a juvenile. In these circumstances, a prosecutor may try to indict the juvenile as a youthful offender. Juveniles can only be indicted as youthful offenders in certain specific circumstances. In order to be indicted as a youthful offender, a juvenile must be between the ages of 14 and 17 at the time the offense was allegedly committed."

"the majority of youthful offender charges are brought when a child falls into the 14 to 17 year old age range and is accused of a crime that involves serious bodily injury, or the threat of serious bodily harm. This section is most frequently used when a juvenile is accused of a sexual assault, an armed robbery, or an assault and battery with a dangerous weapon."

"The biggest difference between delinquency and youthful offender cases are the maximum penalties faced by the juveniles indicted as youthful offenders. A juvenile indicted as a youthful offender can be sentenced to the same maximum penalty as an adult facing the same charge. For example, an adult charged with assault and battery with a dangerous weapon faces a maximum penalty of 10 years in state prison. If a juvenile is indicted for assault and battery with a dangerous weapon, as a youthful offender they can also be sentenced to up to 10 years in state prison."

bbm

Mainly commenting on this point. I agree with you and understand this with youthful offenders. Another case I just remembered that occurred in MA is with Philip Chism murdering his teacher Colleen Ritzer. Even though he was tried in adult court he had to be sentenced with some limitation as to his juvenile status at the time of the crime.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Danvers-22-Oct-2013-2&highlight=philip+chism
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4629850/Girl-texts-drove-boyfriend-suicide-enjoys-

above link shows MC enjoying life....until her sentencing....

I wonder if she got paid?

"Michelle Carter is seen in public for the first time since being found guilty of involuntary manslaughter for the texts she sent to her 18-year-old boyfriend before he committed suicide.
In exclusive DailyMail.com pictures, Carter, 20 is see emerging from her car at her family home in Plainville, Massachusetts."

MC's lawyer Cataldo has 30 days to file an appeal and according to this report he probably will do so.

Conrad's parents are allowed victim's impact statements.
bbm
What an eye-opening report. I didn't know the families knew each other...(somewhat, at least):

"Conrad's mother would not address Carter by name. The teens met in 2012 while they were both visiting relatives in Florida and despite living an hour apart in Massachusetts, knew of each other's families.
'She was our family friend,' Lynn Roy said. 'We knew her grandparents. They met through her grandparents, godmother and godfather who live in Florida. 'I don't want to say any more about her beyond that she doesn't have a conscience."

They are basing the "probably will appeal" on what they called a "hint" do to a tee-shirt MC has on:
"
She is wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with a peace symbol and Bob Marley's lyric, 'Get up stand up, don't give up the fight.'

How ironic is that slogan? :(

It's like she was born blind. She can't even see, after all the misery she has caused, that "Get up stand up, don't give up the fight" Is what she should have been saying to Conrad, as relentlessly as she told him he needed to give up and die.

She truly is devoid of a human soul.
 
bbm
What an eye-opening report. I didn't know the families knew each other...(somewhat, at least):

"Conrad's mother would not address Carter by name. The teens met in 2012 while they were both visiting relatives in Florida and despite living an hour apart in Massachusetts, knew of each other's families.
'She was our family friend,' Lynn Roy said. 'We knew her grandparents. They met through her grandparents, godmother and godfather who live in Florida. 'I don't want to say any more about her beyond that she doesn't have a conscience."

They are basing the "probably will appeal" on what they called a "hint" do to a tee-shirt MC has on:
"
She is wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with a peace symbol and Bob Marley's lyric, 'Get up stand up, don't give up the fight.'

How ironic is that slogan? :(

It's like she was born blind. She can't even see, after all the misery she has caused, that "Get up stand up, don't give up the fight" Is what she should have been saying to Conrad, as relentlessly as she told him he needed to give up and die.

She truly is devoid of a human soul.

OMG. This makes me cry. You are so right. Shameless, she is. And heartless.
 
Thank you Safeguard! Explains it all.
I have not been able to bring up the t-shirt pics on this tablet yet and am mortified at what the saying is.
All she is fighting for now is her freedom. HER, it is all about her. I wonder if they had just returned from the mall, lunch out, pedi?? Not seeing friends because I would think the few she had want anything to do with her.
I just do not agree that she should be doing any of it. She should have no break for most of the summer.
 
bbm
What an eye-opening report. I didn't know the families knew each other...(somewhat, at least):

"Conrad's mother would not address Carter by name. The teens met in 2012 while they were both visiting relatives in Florida and despite living an hour apart in Massachusetts, knew of each other's families.
'She was our family friend,' Lynn Roy said. 'We knew her grandparents. They met through her grandparents, godmother and godfather who live in Florida. 'I don't want to say any more about her beyond that she doesn't have a conscience."

They are basing the "probably will appeal" on what they called a "hint" do to a tee-shirt MC has on:
"
She is wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with a peace symbol and Bob Marley's lyric, 'Get up stand up, don't give up the fight.'

How ironic is that slogan? :(

It's like she was born blind. She can't even see, after all the misery she has caused, that "Get up stand up, don't give up the fight" Is what she should have been saying to Conrad, as relentlessly as she told him he needed to give up and die.

She truly is devoid of a human soul.

Yesssss that is where Corad and MC met in Florida while visiting reletives. They were both from Massachusetts, same age, both cute (except now she looks horribly evil, her facial features have changed drastically to me) and hour apart in distance and the rest is history. He met the devil.

I must say that Lyn Roy is handling this with nothing but class. I give her credit.
She is careful as to what she is saying about MC and honestly do not think the woman has any fight in her. Her life has been severly altered forever.
I would have my hands around the girls throat.
 
bbm
What an eye-opening report. I didn't know the families knew each other...(somewhat, at least):

"Conrad's mother would not address Carter by name. The teens met in 2012 while they were both visiting relatives in Florida and despite living an hour apart in Massachusetts, knew of each other's families.
'She was our family friend,' Lynn Roy said. 'We knew her grandparents. They met through her grandparents, godmother and godfather who live in Florida. 'I don't want to say any more about her beyond that she doesn't have a conscience."

They are basing the "probably will appeal" on what they called a "hint" do to a tee-shirt MC has on:
"
She is wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with a peace symbol and Bob Marley's lyric, 'Get up stand up, don't give up the fight.'

How ironic is that slogan? :(

It's like she was born blind. She can't even see, after all the misery she has caused, that "Get up stand up, don't give up the fight" Is what she should have been saying to Conrad, as relentlessly as she told him he needed to give up and die.

She truly is devoid of a human soul.

Rereading...this was a planned photo shoot....T shirt, coming and going outside of house...will have to research what these papers pay...reminds me of the photo shoots of felon Casey Anthony....someone once said $10,000.00....not sure. Hope she has to serve time...
 
Does anyone think she would have been taken into custody if the judge was going to sentence her to jail/prison? I hope he's not considering probation [emoji15]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Does anyone think she would have been taken into custody if the judge was going to sentence her to jail/prison? I hope he's not considering probation [emoji15]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No I think he only did that because she isn't a flight risk.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
No I think he only did that because she isn't a flight risk.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Oh good. I honestly think some prison time is necessary in this case. What she did was appalling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
No I think he only did that because she isn't a flight risk.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

What I found weird was that Judge Moniz did not even know if she had a passport, I think the prosecution asked which he then asked her defense team and they asked her and the parents.
Call me crazy but once someone is found guilty and awaiting sentencing on the outside I DO consider them a flight risk.
Especially when her whole family feels that she did nothing wrong.
 
https://www.wired.com/story/texting-suicide-crime/
sbbm

"At face value, that looks like an argument in Carter’s favor. She was, after all, miles from the scene of Roy's death when it happened. But Gray says that there are exceptions when the court decides that the person who commits suicide is compromised and not acting as “a free-willed agent.”

“That’s where this case seems to lie,” Gray says. “This young man was very troubled, very vulnerable, and the defendant exploited that vulnerability, expanded that vulnerability, and substituted her agency for his agency by constantly encouraging him to commit suicide.”

"Carter also texted a friend following the suicide, saying, “I helped ease him into it and told him it was okay, I was talking to him on the phone when he did it ... I could have easily stopped him or called the police but I didn’t.” That, Gray says, establishes “consciousness of guilt.”

“She knew he wasn’t in a position to make free choices for himself,” Gray explains."

“The knee-jerk reaction has always been: Something bad is happening using technology. We ought to pass a law about that use of technology,” Richards says. But the Carter case suggests that courts are beginning to look past the use of technology and see the crime for what it is."

"And that means those digital crimes come with severe real life consequences. Carter, who will be sentenced on August 3, faces up to 20 years in prison."

I hope she gets every single one of those 20 years! ( I know she most likely won't though. :( )
 
Today I was thinking about, what if I was 17 and I really, really believed that someone I loved, ( ahhmmm), cared greatly for, was in tremendous emotional pain and I felt he was right, about wanting to kill himself...He needed help getting over that last hump...but truly he would be better off dead.

Knowing that no one would understand, what only we two, were convinced of, I decide to "ease him into it", compel him when he was weak, and help him reach his goal. No matter what. Of course I would have to lie, and cover up what I was doing, because no one would understand.

I worked really hard to see where this might have been her mind set, but what absolutely stopped me in my tracks, was LOVE. There is no way that love thinks like this.

"You are the most wonderful, unique, special human being that ever lived and I can't hurt you, or help you hurt yourself. I love you please keep trying. THAT is LOVE.

That she was able to immediately contact his family and pretend to be concerned... is the coldest, most heartless act I could ever imagine. (I have a 12 year old daughter. I honestly don't know how I would ever look at her the same, if she ever did something like this! I would be heartbroken, I would not be sending her to Disney for sure!).

This case feels so personal to me. My best friend has a son, who was suicidal. He made his first suicide attempt at 13. He ran around their home smashing windows with his fist and deliberately slashed his wrists on the broken glass. His father had to tackle him to the ground, in the kitchen, while his two younger siblings were rooted to the spot, in terror.
That was his first hospitalization, and he was diagnosed manic depressive.

He made several other attempts. Once he was in in complete organ failure, funeral plans were being made.... But he recovered, and we all worked so hard, to keep this boy alive.

At 22 he was MIA for a while, he showed up on my doorstep one night, like an abandoned cat, he was thin, and tired... I was so greatfull to be able to call my friend and say," I have your son here, he's tired and thin, but he;s ok, I'll keep him a few days, if that's alright with you. His family was so stressed and in pain, I was glad to help them.

We talked a lot over that week, and I asked him to consider, that even if he felt life held nothing but pain for him, that he might have something of value to offer others. Could he see the value of remaining alive solely to assist those who might need him? I was trying to help him see, that by throwing away his life, he was depriving others of a chance for his presence to make a difference in their lives...


And I saw the lightbulb go off in his head... "oh my god, we're not here to have the most fabulous lives possible, we're not here to prove to others what we're worth, to be popular, or beautiful/hansom... we are here to love one another, and assist our fellow human beings. No matter what someone's opinion of us may be, when we help just one person, no matter how trivial that help may seem, we're "perfect" in that moment. Valuable, and needed.

It was a long road for Joel. But he began doing service work. And as he continued down that road, he began to recover. His self esteem improved with every individual he helped.

He turned 36 a few months ago, and his life not perfect, he has to see his Dr. and take his meds, and he is on disability. But he's become a champion motivational speaker to those who know him, and he is always ready to help anyone who needs him. My facebook wall is filled with his daily messages of love and hope.

Recently he wrote a post for his parents 50th anniversary and he thanked them, for never giving up on him. He said that he had hit the jack-pot in the lottery of parents, and that he loved them so much, and couldn't ask for better...Having known them some 25 years now, I have to agree.

I love Joel so much, I am so, so glad, that he never had a "friend" like Michelle Carter.
 
Today I was thinking about, what if I was 17 and I really, really believed that someone I loved, ( ahhmmm), cared greatly for, was in tremendous emotional pain and I felt he was right, about wanting to kill himself...He needed help getting over that last hump...but truly he would be better off dead.

Knowing that no one would understand, what only we two, were convinced of, I decide to "ease him into it", compel him when he was weak, and help him reach his goal. No matter what. Of course I would have to lie, and cover up what I was doing, because no one would understand.

I worked really hard to see where this might have been her mind set, but what absolutely stopped me in my tracks, was LOVE. There is no way that love thinks like this.

"You are the most wonderful, unique, special human being that ever lived and I can't hurt you, or help you hurt yourself. I love you please keep trying. THAT is LOVE.

That she was able to immediately contact his family and pretend to be concerned... is the coldest, most heartless act I could ever imagine. (I have a 12 year old daughter. I honestly don't know how I would ever look at her the same, if she ever did something like this! I would be heartbroken, I would not be sending her to Disney for sure!).

This case feels so personal to me. My best friend has a son, who was suicidal. He made his first suicide attempt at 13. He ran around their home smashing windows with his fist and deliberately slashed his wrists on the broken glass. His father had to tackle him to the ground, in the kitchen, while his two younger siblings were rooted to the spot, in terror.
That was his first hospitalization, and he was diagnosed manic depressive.

He made several other attempts. Once he was in in complete organ failure, funeral plans were being made.... But he recovered, and we all worked so hard, to keep this boy alive.

At 22 he was MIA for a while, he showed up on my doorstep one night, like an abandoned cat, he was thin, and tired... I was so greatfull to be able to call my friend and say," I have your son here, he's tired and thin, but he;s ok, I'll keep him a few days, if that's alright with you. His family was so stressed and in pain, I was glad to help them.

We talked a lot over that week, and I asked him to consider, that even if he felt life held nothing but pain for him, that he might have something of value to offer others. Could he see the value of remaining alive solely to assist those who might need him? I was trying to help him see, that by throwing away his life, he was depriving others of a chance for his presence to make a difference in their lives...


And I saw the lightbulb go off in his head... "oh my god, we're not here to have the most fabulous lives possible, we're not here to prove to others what we're worth, to be popular, or beautiful/hansom... we are here to love one another, and assist our fellow human beings. No matter what someone's opinion of us may be, when we help just one person, no matter how trivial that help may seem, we're "perfect" in that moment. Valuable, and needed.

It was a long road for Joel. But he began doing service work. And as he continued down that road, he began to recover. His self esteem improved with every individual he helped.

He turned 36 a few months ago, and his life not perfect, he has to see his Dr. and take his meds, and he is on disability. But he's become a champion motivational speaker to those who know him, and he is always ready to help anyone who needs him. My facebook wall is filled with his daily messages of love and hope.

Recently he wrote a post for his parents 50th anniversary and he thanked them, for never giving up on him. He said that he had hit the jack-pot in the lottery of parents, and that he loved them so much, and couldn't ask for better...Having known them some 25 years now, I have to agree.

I love Joel so much, I am so, so glad, that he never had a "friend" like Michelle Carter.

What a wonderful story of encouragement, hope, and compassion you have written--it is beautiful. You are beautiful. Thank you so much. Your words offer so much more than you may know at this time. Heartfelt thanks to you.
 
Thanks is not enough Safeguard for sharing your thoughts and your experience with Joel! What a testament to Life! I am glad to hear he is doing well today and I hope he continues to do well.

I don't think a normal person would push anyone to commit suicide if they loved them. What MC did was awful, it was more than involuntary manslaughter to me it was murder. As if she stuck the hose in Conrads mouth and held it there until he took his last breath. She better get some prison time or I think a lot of people will be upset.
 
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