GUILTY MA - Conrad Roy, 18, urged by friend, commits suicide, Fairhaven, 13 July 2014 #2 *guilty*

[silverjug]

When it comes let's hope that it will give her something to think about and deter others. I cannot fathom how anyone would want to do such a horrible thing.

 

[Ambitioned]

“The fact that she would say to him, ‘Your family will get over you.’ How is that even? - I will never get over him,” she said.

(Roy's mother)

I agree with Roy's mother. Carter has zero conscience.

 

[Safeguard]

I definitely do think there should be a law against saying to a suicidal person, who confides in you they are thinking of changing their mind, and they might want to live after all;

"OH no you don't! You know you want to die, jump up right now and go kill yourself right this minute!

Suicide hotlines have saved the lives of depressed people who are wavering, with "just words". Words could also kill in those same situations.

Words are profoundly powerful when used with intent to harm.

(This is one reason why so many find the PC movement so ridiculous. It does not differentiate between intentional/inadvertent).

Emotional abuse kills the spirit.

She killed him with her words. And she also ruined her own life, and was found guilty... when those very same words, her own words, were used against her.

Poetic Justice.

 

[Pocono Sleuther]

I definitely do think there should be a law against saying to a suicidal person, who confides in you they are thinking of changing their mind, and they might want to live after all;

"OH no you don't! You know you want to die, jump up right now and go kill yourself right this minute!

Suicide hotlines have saved the lives of depressed people who are wavering, with "just words". Words could also kill in those same situations.

Words are profoundly powerful when used with intent to harm.

(This is one reason why so many find the PC movement so ridiculous. It does not differentiate between intentional/inadvertent).

Emotional abuse kills the spirit.

She killed him with her words. And she also ruined her own life, and was found guilty... when those very same words, her own words, were used against her.

Poetic Justice.

Emotional abuse kills the spirit.

* I've been lurking in the shadows but had to come out to repeat your statement, Safeguard. That line sums up exactly what MC did to Conrad. She killed his spirit. He kept fighting his way back to clarity and each time, she stomped him back down into the dark pit of depression.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Jewels53]

Emotional abuse kills the spirit.

* I've been lurking in the shadows but had to come out to repeat your statement, Safeguard. That line sums up exactly what MC did to Conrad. She killed his spirit. He kept fighting his way back to clarity and each time, she stomped him back down into the dark pit of depression.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I totally agree with you and safeguards post!

Just think what she could have done to help Conrad if she had talked positive to him and encouraged him to live. Told him how wonderful he was, what a good future he had, the things he had going for him that were worth living for, etc.

No she belittled Conrad and dragged him down the rabbit hole for her gratification.

jmo!

 

[Safeguard]

A week before Conrad died, she tortures him emotionally, over a failed attempt and he apologies for still being ALIVE! No concern AT ALL from MC, just accusations... How dare he not be dead!

"Conrad Roy: hey sorry I just took sleeping pills and fell asleep

Michelle Carter: So it didn't work

Michelle Carter: That's such a lie

Michelle Carter: You said you wanted this bad. I knew you weren't gonna try hard

Michelle Carter: I feel like such an idiot

Conrad Roy: Why

Michelle Carter: Because you didn't even do anything! You lied about this whole thing! You said you were gonna go to the woods and do it and you said things that made me feel like maybe you were actually serious, and I poured my heart out to you thinking this was gonna be the last time I talked to you. And then you tell me you took sleeping pills? Whixh [sic] first of all I know that's a lie because you already said you wouldn't get enough and idk how you would of [sic] got them. I'm just so confused. I thought you really wanted to die but apparently you don't, I feel played and just stupid

Conrad Roy: Don't I found out a new plan. and I'm gonna fo [sic] it tonight

Michelle Carter: I don't believe you

Michelle Carter: You're gonna have to prove me wrong because I just don't think you really want this. You just keeps [sic] pushing it off to another night and say you'll do it but you never do

Conrad Roy: okay

Michelle Carter: Okay what?

Conrad Roy: I'll prove you wrong

Michelle Carter: What are you planning on doing?

Michelle Carter: Poision [sic] would work

Conrad Roy: Carbon monoxide or helium gas. I want to deprive myself of oxygen

Conrad Roy: don't feel like an idiot it's gonna happen

Michelle Carter: Tonight?

Conrad Roy: Eventually

Michelle Carter: Cute J haha I love you

Michelle Carter: SEE THATS WHAT I MEAN. YOU KEEP PUSHING IT OFF! You just said you were gonna do it tonight and now you're saying eventually…."

Poor Michelle. She desperately wants him dead and he just keeps putting it off.

He just can't do anything right! Not even a simple little thing like killing himself...

Dripping with "malice" was this slime creature!

 

[monkeypants]

If I was her and saw that people magazine cover I'd die...she's probably going to frame it.

 

[Ambitioned]

I totally agree with you and safeguards post!

Just think what she could have done to help Conrad if she had talked positive to him and encouraged him to live. Told him how wonderful he was, what a good future he had, the things he had going for him that were worth living for, etc.

No she belittled Conrad and dragged him down the rabbit hole for her gratification.

jmo!

ITA in some ways emotional abuse is worse than physical. I'm speaking from experience because the words never leave you but bruises can heal.

Michelle Carter: Because you didn't even do anything! You lied about this whole thing! You said you were gonna go to the woods and do it and you said things that made me feel like maybe you were actually serious, and I poured my heart out to you thinking this was gonna be the last time I talked to you. And then you tell me you took sleeping pills? Whixh [sic] first of all I know that's a lie because you already said you wouldn't get enough and idk how you would of [sic] got them. I'm just so confused. I thought you really wanted to die but apparently you don't, I feel played and just stupid

Pure evil.

 

[Safeguard]

https://www.google.com/amp/people.c...onviction-in-boyfriends-suicide-attorney/amp/

"The lawyer for Michelle Carter says his client is “very disappointed” in a Massachusetts judge’s verdict last Friday convicting her of involuntary manslaughter in the 2014 suicide of her boyfriend.

“The case presented some very novel legal issues, and we’re very disappointed in the outcome of the verdict,” attorney Joseph Cataldo tells PEOPLE.

Cataldo adds that he and Carter, 20, “will be weighing our various options moving forward” and are focused on Carter’s sentencing on Aug. 3.

He said he is not sure whether Carter will appeal her conviction."

 

[Safeguard]

I don't think they will appeal. This is a comment I read elswhere, that explains the problem with appealing this verdict:

"The appeal will be very hard to win because first of all it was held in front of a judge so it takes appeals involving the jury in any way, out of the game. Also the SJC has already ruled the case could go forward and probable cause existed. What's left witness testimony or the cell phone records. It'll be rough."

There's also this:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bo...after-conviction-in-texting-suicide-trial/amp
s/bbm

In its ruling last year, the Supreme Judicial Court said the grand jury that indicted Carter heard evidence suggesting that Carter had engaged in a “systematic campaign of coercion” targeting Roy’s insecurities and that her instruction for him to “get back in” his truck was a “direct, causal link” to his death. The court also found that Carter was “virtually present” at the time of Roy’s suicide."

 

[Lilibet]

A week before Conrad died, she tortures him emotionally, over a failed attempt and he apologies for still being ALIVE! No concern AT ALL from MC, just accusations... How dare he not be dead!

"Conrad Roy: hey sorry I just took sleeping pills and fell asleep

Michelle Carter: So it didn't work

Michelle Carter: That's such a lie

Michelle Carter: You said you wanted this bad. I knew you weren't gonna try hard

Michelle Carter: I feel like such an idiot

Conrad Roy: Why

Michelle Carter: Because you didn't even do anything! You lied about this whole thing! You said you were gonna go to the woods and do it and you said things that made me feel like maybe you were actually serious, and I poured my heart out to you thinking this was gonna be the last time I talked to you. And then you tell me you took sleeping pills? Whixh [sic] first of all I know that's a lie because you already said you wouldn't get enough and idk how you would of [sic] got them. I'm just so confused. I thought you really wanted to die but apparently you don't, I feel played and just stupid

Conrad Roy: Don't I found out a new plan. and I'm gonna fo [sic] it tonight

Michelle Carter: I don't believe you

Michelle Carter: You're gonna have to prove me wrong because I just don't think you really want this. You just keeps [sic] pushing it off to another night and say you'll do it but you never do

Conrad Roy: okay

Michelle Carter: Okay what?

Conrad Roy: I'll prove you wrong

Michelle Carter: What are you planning on doing?

Michelle Carter: Poision [sic] would work

Conrad Roy: Carbon monoxide or helium gas. I want to deprive myself of oxygen

Conrad Roy: don't feel like an idiot it's gonna happen

Michelle Carter: Tonight?

Conrad Roy: Eventually

Michelle Carter: Cute J haha I love you

Michelle Carter: SEE THATS WHAT I MEAN. YOU KEEP PUSHING IT OFF! You just said you were gonna do it tonight and now you're saying eventually…."

Poor Michelle. She desperately wants him dead and he just keeps putting it off.

He just can't do anything right! Not even a simple little thing like killing himself...

Dripping with "malice" was this slime creature!

BBM

I have no words. The bolded words say it all. 😥 😡

 

[monkeypants]

I think they will appeal if she gets jail, if she gets probation I don't think they will.

 

[The Farm]

I read the same thing safeguard but can not remember where.
And how dare MC be "very disappointed" in her verdict?
Yup she really did think she was going to get a slap on the hinie but Judge Moniz surprised her. He has been in youth court for a while I believe, and he knows he is looking at sick evil.

 

[borndem]

I hope she gets 10-15 years -- with 10-year minimum, or
..........................15-20 years -- with 15-year minimum

Nowhere nearly enuff, but again, it is involuntary manslaughter.

Did she just consider this whole thing a frolic for herself? Or was her personality so off-putting, snobby, or just weird, that she had few friends, especially in her middle & high school years -- and this made her crave attention any way she could get it, and Munchausen by Proxy was her gig here.

 

[KaaBoom]

I don't think they will appeal. This is a comment I read elswhere, that explains the problem with appealing this verdict:

"The appeal will be very hard to win because first of all it was held in front of a judge so it takes appeals involving the jury in any way, out of the game. Also the SJC has already ruled the case could go forward and probable cause existed. What's left witness testimony or the cell phone records. It'll be rough."

There's also this:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bo...after-conviction-in-texting-suicide-trial/amp
s/bbm

In its ruling last year, the Supreme Judicial Court said the grand jury that indicted Carter heard evidence suggesting that Carter had engaged in a “systematic campaign of coercion” targeting Roy’s insecurities and that her instruction for him to “get back in” his truck was a “direct, causal link” to his death. The court also found that Carter was “virtually present” at the time of Roy’s suicide."

I'm 99% sure they will appeal, unless she gets probation or something. Even if she does get probation, they might still appeal anyway. She has the money to appeal, and nothing to lose.

 

[Safeguard]

I'm 99% sure they will appeal, unless she gets probation or something. Even if she does get probation, they might still appeal anyway. She has the money to appeal, and nothing to lose.

Well if she gets a light sentence, she risks a harsher one if she wins an appeal, and is found guilty again. Her defence said they would wait until sentencing to decide if they would appeal, and I'm guessing if she gets a token punishment, they won't risk it.

If she gets the max allowed, they won't have anything to lose, but if she doesn't it's quite the gamble. She's not a very sympathetic defendent, and she has practically no credible defence.

 

[KaaBoom]

Well if she gets a light sentence, she risks a harsher one if she wins an appeal, and is found guilty again. Her defence said they would wait until sentencing to decide if they would appeal, and I'm guessing if she gets a token punishment, they won't risk it.

If she gets the max allowed, they won't have anything to lose, but if she doesn't it's quite the gamble. She's not a very sympathetic defendent, and she has practically no credible defence.

Well maybe, if they tried to get her resentenced. But I think they will just appeal and try to get the conviction overturned. Will they be successful? Probably not, but there is nothing to lose.

 

[Safeguard]

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/appealing-conviction.html
bbm

"An appeal is a request to a higher (appellate) court to review and change the decision of a lower court. The defendant may challenge the conviction itself or the sentence (without attacking the underlying conviction). A successful appeal usually restores a case to the initial stages, but can sometimes end the case altogether (such as when the appellate court finds that there’s insufficient evidence to retry the defendant).

Since the SJC already found "sufficient" evidence in allowing the case to proceed, I would think they would have nothing to base an overturn on.

 

[HRP]

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/appealing-conviction.html
bbm

"An appeal is a request to a higher (appellate) court to review and change the decision of a lower court. The defendant may challenge the conviction itself or the sentence (without attacking the underlying conviction). A successful appeal usually restores a case to the initial stages, but can sometimes end the case altogether (such as when the appellate court finds that there’s insufficient evidence to retry the defendant).

Since the SJC already found "sufficient" evidence in allowing the case to proceed, I would think they would have nothing to base an overturn on.

Not sure if this can work for an appeal, but when the defense brought it to the Supreme Court in MA to have it dismissed (which was denied), in their ruling they mentioned that the defense had claimed that the defendant was not able to fully grasp the situation she had put Conrad in (or herself as far as being responsible), so based on her immaturity at age 17, as the defense claimed (to have it dismissed), and others in that age group (17ish year-olds), the case should be dismissed. (Can you tell I am typing this from memory? lol). Anyway, that is what I got from what I read.

Okay, here's what I am wondering. The Court said (on the above as said by the defense), that the defense failed to file a motion to put on record any such claim to be discussed or reviewed. So the Court just said it was not relevant to their request to dismiss because the defense did not provide any backing information on this,

CAN the defense NOW provide some kind of historical case proof that indicates 17ish year-olds are just too plain ignorant and naive to understand and grasp a scenario such as what happened in this case and then use that for the appeal?

And/or can the defense say they appeal because they were not aware the court needed examples for them to discuss/review?

 

[HRP]

Not sure if this can work for an appeal, but when the defense brought it to the Supreme Court in MA to have it dismissed (which was denied), in their ruling they mentioned that the defense had claimed that the defendant was not able to fully grasp the situation she had put Conrad in (or herself as far as being responsible), so based on her immaturity at age 17, as the defense claimed (to have it dismissed), and others in that age group (17ish year-olds), the case should be dismissed. (Can you tell I am typing this from memory? lol). Anyway, that is what I got from what I read.

Okay, here's what I am wondering. The Court said (on the above as said by the defense), that the defense failed to file a motion to put on record any such claim to be discussed or reviewed. So the Court just said it was not relevant to their request to dismiss because the defense did not provide any backing information on this,

CAN the defense NOW provide some kind of historical case proof that indicates 17ish year-olds are just too plain ignorant and naive to understand and grasp a scenario such as what happened in this case and then use that for the appeal?

And/or can the defense say they appeal because they were not aware the court needed examples for them to discuss/review?

3. Conclusion.[SUP][18][/SUP] The grand jury were justified in returning an indictment of involuntary manslaughter against the defendant. 637*637 Because involuntary manslaughter carries a potential punishment of incarceration in State prison and is inherently a crime that involves the infliction of serious bodily harm,[SUP][19][/SUP] and because the defendant was seventeen years of age at the time of the offense, her indictment as a youthful offender on the underlying involuntary manslaughter charge was also supported by the evidence. The motion judge's denial of the defendant's motion to dismiss is affirmed.

[18] The defendant argues that the indictment is flawed where the grand jurors did not consider the charges from the perspective of a "reasonable juvenile of the same age" standard. Massachusetts currently does not require that a grand jury consider charges based on such a standard. This issue was not raised below. See G. L. c. 277, § 47A ("In a criminal case, any defense or objection based upon defects in the institution of the prosecution or in the complaint or indictment, other than a failure to show jurisdiction in the court or to charge an offense, shall only be raised . . . by a motion in conformity with the requirements of the Massachusetts Rules of Criminal Procedure"). There was not an evidentiary hearing on the issue, the judge did not offer any opinion as to the argument's merits, and the arguments presented by the defendant and amici at this stage regarding the impact of juvenile indictments are being raised for the first time on appeal. The argument was therefore waived.