MA - Conrad Roy, 18, urged by friend, commits suicide, Fairhaven, 13 July 2014

[IzzyBlanche]

She didn't text him. She apparently spoke the 'get back in the truck' to him during their 20 minute phone call while she was listening to the generator and him killing himself. It's my understanding she was describing her actions via text to her friends.

Respectfully snipped for focus

Then the only source for Michelle telling Conrad to get back into the truck is Michelle herself.

It's pretty clear this girl has issues and apparently plays fast and loose with reality. Also taking into account her classmates who characterized her as the girl who cried wolf, why should her one statement that she told him to get back into the truck be assumed credible if many other things she has said aren't?

This isn't directed at you, Cubby, just jumping off from your post.

Maybe little miss drama queen inflated her role in the situation. IDK, just throwing out an idea.

 

[SophieRose]

http://www2.nami.org/template.cfm?section=smoking_cessation

People living with mental illness have a very high rate of smoking. A study by The Journal of the American Medical Association reported that 44.3 percent of all cigarettes in America are consumed by individuals who live with mental illness and/or substance abuse disorders. This means that people living with mental illness are about twice as likely to smoke as other persons.

According to the Journal of the American Medical Association, approximately 50 percent of individuals diagnosed with severe mental illness are affected by substance abuse. About 37 percent of individuals with alcoholism and 53 percent of individuals with drug addictions have at least one serious mental illness.

 

[Cubby]

I think I found relevant law.

Massachusetts is one of ten states with a legal duty to rescue law.

http://www.thelaw.com/guide/injury/the-legal-duty-to-rescue-or-help-another-person/

It covers very limited scenarios, one of which I think applies in this case:



And that very well might be how they can make manslaughter stick.

I'd like to see the official charges on her. It can't be just manslaughter. There has to be other charges.

Since she was 17 at the time, it can be tried in juvenile or adult court.

I think she's inappropriately being tried as a juvenile. She was old enough to know better.

Here is where I am questioning what laws may or may not have been broken.
Did her misleading Conrad's parents by hiding she was in contact with him break a law?
Did she have a legal duty to rescue after planning his suicide with him? And not telling him to stay out of the car when she knew he was in it with the generator running?

how does the court view the difference of her not physically being there with him but being on the phone with him for the duration of his committing the act of suicide? (They should be able to verify how long their call lasted).

With MA law, I don't think it is as simple as he chose this of his free will....... Was MC's part in this criminal or not?

 

[Schuby]

And this is why she is being charged with involuntary manslaughter and not a homicide.

Also didnt you say that the person would have did it regardless so it shouldnt be her fault.

No. I said that suicide is complex and it is impossible to isolate one single "trigger" event.

 

[Snoods]

Here is where I am questioning what laws may or may not have been broken.
Did her misleading Conrad's parents by hiding she was in contact with him break a law?
Did she have a legal duty to rescue after planning his suicide with him? And not telling him to stay out of the car when she knew he was in it with the generator running?

how does the court view the difference of her not physically being there with him but being on the phone with him for the duration of his committing the act of suicide? (They should be able to verify how long their call lasted).

With MA law, I don't think it is as simple as he chose this of his free will....... Was MC's part in this criminal or not?

Thank you, Cubby, these are all excellent questions.

 

[Schuby]

First, I am very sorry about the suicide of your loved one, I can't imagine how difficult that would be to endure.

I do agree that the media can be misleading, but based on the texts that have been released there doesn't seem to be any way to misconstrue them, IMO.

I would ask you this: What if she continues to seek out suicidal people and encourages them to kill themselves. Let's say 10 more people commit suicide with her encouragement. I know this is an extreme hypothetical but is one person any less valuable (I know you're not saying this young man isn't valuable) than 10, or 100? What is the cut off point where it becomes criminal?

I will admit the legalities of this case are more difficult to nail down, at least to me anyway.

This may sound strange but I'm not particularly worried about her assaulting random strangers with her desire for them to commit suicide

 

[Schuby]

Why are you excluding a form of addiction when stating the rate of addiction? That makes no sense to me.

I'm excluding tobacco because those addicted to tobacco (because it is legal and does not cause intoxication) do not engage in the behaviors traditionally associated with substance abuse.

ETA: most people addicted to tobacco use it at a "maintenance" level whereas those addicted to harder drugs tend to use them in escalation.

 

[Schuby]

I'm excluding tobacco because those addicted to tobacco (because it is legal and does not cause intoxication) do not engage in the behaviors traditionally associated with substance abuse.

ETA: most people addicted to tobacco use it at a "maintenance" level whereas those addicted to harder drugs tend to use them in escalation.

http://www2.nami.org/template.cfm?section=smoking_cessation

People living with mental illness have a very high rate of smoking. A study by The Journal of the American Medical Association reported that 44.3 percent of all cigarettes in America are consumed by individuals who live with mental illness and/or substance abuse disorders. This means that people living with mental illness are about twice as likely to smoke as other persons.

According to the Journal of the American Medical Association, approximately 50 percent of individuals diagnosed with severe mental illness are affected by substance abuse. About 37 percent of individuals with alcoholism and 53 percent of individuals with drug addictions have at least one serious mental illness.

Reread what you posted. You're arguing my point.

 

[al66pine]

[QUOTE=IzzyBlanche;11541194]From the link:
Odd that Conrad was supposedly so crazy in love with Michelle,
but his best friend had never heard of her. JMO[/QUOTE]

Reminds me of 2012 story of Manti Te'o, college football player w (almost) imaginary girlfriend,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manti_Te'o 'Girlfriend hoax' but not a tragic outcome, like Conrad.
Ring bells w anyone else?

Sad that ppl can get so wrapped up in soc media, perhaps even to the exclusion of Real Life friends.

 

[Hoosgirl]

More from her lawyer about wanting the DA's office off the case:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_op.../lawyer_bias_vs_teen_accused_in_pal_s_suicide

 

[Hoosgirl]

Sorry ... I linked to wrong Joseph Cataldo and have alerted a mod to delete. Her attorney is Joseph P. and he does specialize in criminal law.

http://www.cataldolawoffices.com/Attorneys/Joseph-P-Cataldo.shtml

 

[Dockins]

IMO, if this goes to trial with a jury, it's going to come down to whether that jury follows the letter of the law or the spirit of the law. But, in either case, it's probable that new laws will be written because of the alleged actions of this girl.

 

[angiefly2]

Respectfully snipped for focus

Then the only source for Michelle telling Conrad to get back into the truck is Michelle herself.

It's pretty clear this girl has issues and apparently plays fast and loose with reality. Also taking into account her classmates who characterized her as the girl who cried wolf, why should her one statement that she told him to get back into the truck be assumed credible if many other things she has said aren't?

This isn't directed at you, Cubby, just jumping off from your post.

Maybe little miss drama queen inflated her role in the situation. IDK, just throwing out an idea.

Even if what you're are saying, is what really happened, it's the totality of all of the text and MC's actions/in-actions. So we can take away this one piece but the whole puzzle still looks really, really bad.

 

[jjenny]

Respectfully snipped for focus

Then the only source for Michelle telling Conrad to get back into the truck is Michelle herself.

It's pretty clear this girl has issues and apparently plays fast and loose with reality. Also taking into account her classmates who characterized her as the girl who cried wolf, why should her one statement that she told him to get back into the truck be assumed credible if many other things she has said aren't?

This isn't directed at you, Cubby, just jumping off from your post.

Maybe little miss drama queen inflated her role in the situation. IDK, just throwing out an idea.

This says otherwise.
"At one point the night of Roy's death, he exited the vehicle and communicated to Carter that he was having second thoughts about taking his own life, Kobza told CNN. Carter then urged him via text message to get back in the car, Kobza said."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/01/us/suicide-text-case/

 

[Miss Muffet]

No. I said that suicide is complex and it is impossible to isolate one single "trigger" event.

We can't speak for all people with mental illness who attempted or committed suicide. Each person's illness and situation is unique. As a result, it IS possible to isolate one single "trigger" event for a percentage of suicides, even if that's not our personal experiences with mental illness and suicides.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I don't believe anyone should be charged for someone else's suicide. Suicide is a choice people make to end their own life. He did not have to do it and yet he did.

We have gone crazy to a point where no one is responsible for what they choose to do anymore.

 

[KindraLore]

I don't believe anyone should be charged for someone else's suicide. Suicide is a choice people make to end their own life. He did not have to do it and yet he did.

We have gone crazy to a point where no one is responsible for what they choose to do anymore.

Many times when one threatens to commit suicide and tells someone they love or are close to, it’s really a call for help. They do not want to commit suicide, they are desperate and hopeless and reaching out to someone. Instead of doing what most would do if someone came to you threatening to kill themselves, she coaxed him for days, even a week or so before. Helping him research the best way and how much carbon monoxide it would take. She did this up until the very end.. even when he got out of the vehicle and told her he was scared and didn’t want to leave his family. At that point, maybe she made him feel like he was at the point of no return. That he had to. Had she been a human being and a friend, he would be getting help now, he would not be dead. JMO

 

[jjenny]

I don't believe anyone should be charged for someone else's suicide. Suicide is a choice people make to end their own life. He did not have to do it and yet he did.

We have gone crazy to a point where no one is responsible for what they choose to do anymore.

She chose to encourage him instead of helping. Then she started raising money for suicide awareness using his name.
I don't have any problems with her being held responsible for her choices.

 

[believe09]

Here is where I am questioning what laws may or may not have been broken.
Did her misleading Conrad's parents by hiding she was in contact with him break a law?
Did she have a legal duty to rescue after planning his suicide with him? And not telling him to stay out of the car when she knew he was in it with the generator running?

how does the court view the difference of her not physically being there with him but being on the phone with him for the duration of his committing the act of suicide? (They should be able to verify how long their call lasted).

With MA law, I don't think it is as simple as he chose this of his free will....... Was MC's part in this criminal or not?

The DA is rolling the dice with an emphatic yes.

 

[Cubby]

According to the following article she is going to be tried as an adult.

http://www.cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_23869.shtml