MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #10

[HarmonyE.]

I watched the entire Voir Dire yesterday, thank you. I was not aware that the evidence of those two witnesses was in the public domain as yet hence my question.
Multiple people have suggested that it is.

You're welcome! I couldn't tell. No need to fret now though. We'll hear the actual testimony soon.

 

[Aquarian]

I must have missed it when these pics of the shoes were shown in court, does anyone have a theory of why the sole of one of them seems more worn/dirtier than the other?

View attachment 511652
View attachment 511653
View attachment 511654

Which shoe was on him again?

 

[waldojabba]

So I am really struggling with this.

How did this case come to trial? I have no idea if those are dog bites, but it seems like it will be at least reasonable doubt all day if the experts testify as expected.

How was any of this supposed to work?

IMO

@mrjitty Spot on. It’s a head scratcher.

Being local to the case I don’t know anyone who thinks this should have gone to trial.
It has exposed a lot of “dysfunction” shall I say in the judicial system and LE here in Massachusetts. That “ dysfunction” was always an open secret anyway though in certain towns etc. But…
Putting it all on screen for the world to see shows an amazing lack of self awareness by the Judge etc.
Both sides( p&d) ask the Judge to push the trial out until the fbi finished their investigation but the Judge said No let’s get to trial!
Maybe the Judge fancies herself with a judge judy like career after this from her tv exposure or some other reality show.
IMO She is not smart enough to be so snarky - it comes off as terribly self serving and she is often off the mark. She is def no match for the D.
It’s quite depressing sham actually.
Lally floundering, O’Keefe’s looking for a pound of flesh from KR whether or not the evidence points at her
Federal employees destroying evidence, on and on.
Total embarrassment and disrespectful to the deceased.
All JMO

 

[Spectrix]

FBI-provided biomechanical experts... evidence... , it's literally all over the place if you look...

For the benefit of everyone else reading, please tell us where, exactly.

You may prefer to wait...

Ain't got no time for that

 

[Aquarian]

The head wound - likely to be the main reason for his death. Where did it occur? It is doubtful that it happened where he was found because there just isn't enough blood there to have come from a head wound - they bleed a LOT! Blood on his pants - from 3 different people. Whose DNA profile is on his pants? The prosecution didn't even try to identify the other DNA profiles which should have been a red flag to them.

What about a coat we have heard was cut off of him? Where do the holes line up in both of the shirts he was wearing? If the outer shirt doesn't have the same holes, how is this explained?

I don’t believe he had a coat. All video of him at the bars show no coat. I think the ems person was mistaken. One thing I wondered re stains and the dna- Don’t these cops have their dna on file? As well as prints ? They said the others were unidentified. Could be from anything imo.

 

[keek]

We haven't heard their evidence as yet. Do you somehow have access to this information?

So he could have been dead or dying at that time and she didn't know it.

At least in that basement.

 

[TIGER0822]

I wonder if the flip JMcC refers to is the one that occurs KerR wraps JOK’s head? KerR testifies that they found JOK on his back but as she checks him over and removes snow from his face she notices he is bleeding at the back of his head. She decides to check to see if he has a head wound and sees he has a cut at the back of his head. She admits she can’t really recall what she wrapped it but her testimony was very thorough, easy to follow and seemed genuine or honest in my opinion. I think she wraps his head prior to starting CPR.

@19:29

I call nonsense! The timestamp is 15.15 -3.15pm in the afternoon! Moo

 

[TTF14]

For the benefit of everyone else reading, please tell us where, exactly.



Ain't got no time for that

25:57 timestamp

 

[HarmonyE.]

Oddly enough, just as I was reading your post, I watch watching a Court TV YouTube video from 5 months ago about this case. Vinnie had a few people on, including Melanie Little, who said she'd never seen it in 30 years.

Having not followed this case until the trial started, I'm shocked they went ahead with trial after the feds got involved. For those of you who have been following since the beginning, is that kindof the consensus? Did most of you think there was no way this was going to trial?

I've been following the case since the news of John's death hit the Boston Globe. The police told the Globe they had video of Karen hitting John, so like everyone else I assumed they had their woman, but was curious to know if it was likely intentional or an accident. But like everything else associated with the police here, this alleged video turned out to be deliberate misinformation.

I knew there was a lot of noise once Turtleboy got involved in 2023. My daughter told me, you don't understand, he was killed in that house. And I was like, dear child, that's what good defense attorneys do. They muddy things. And TB isn't someone to pay attention to. So she showed me those autopsy photos and the second I saw his arm I knew that wasn't caused by a car, but appeared to be animal marks.

We had no way of knowing at the time, but TB, aside from being a rabble rouser, was little more than a conduit for information that the defense got from the FBI and passed on to Karen. The FBI had been involved since very early on, but no one knew. Read likely couldn't find a legitimate news source (the Globe has done a terrible job reporting the case since the start) and he was all she could get, IMO.

TB is shrewd and knew he'd struck gold with the story. He quickly gathered, as one district attorney called them, "his minions". They made a ton of noise, bought billboard space, printed posters and business cards and set up what they call stand-outs of protestors all over the state. Nine of these protestors in Canton were arrested for picketing in front of Chris Albert's pizza shop. They still haven't gone to trial.

All of this appears to have enraged Norfolk District Attorney Michael Morrissey. He took the step of releasing a prerecorded statement in August of last year fully vouching for Michael Proctor (ouch!) and telling protesters it all needs to stop. (fighting words for First Amendment lovers). And then he took the extra step of vouching for the people in the house that night. Good people trying to be good citizens telling what they know. The full statement can be found on YouTube.

Many think, myself included, think Michael Morrissey is the one who wanted the trial pushed through. He wrote letters to the FBI trying to find out what they were up to, and they just pushed back on him, telling him nothing. My guess is this further upset - and possibly enraged - Morrissey to the point that he wanted this over and done as soon as possible.

This may also be why the judge rushed the trial through. Both sides requested a continuance and she refused. She doesn't technically report to Morrissey, but may have gotten a clear message that his needs to be done now. I'm not sure anyone really anticipated the world-wide interest in the case. Or how bad things would turn out for all of the Commonwealth witnesses.

Sorry for the long story, but this is the context from my perspective.

 

[kittythehare]

I don’t believe he had a coat. All video of him at the bars show no coat. I think the ems person was mistaken. One thing I wondered re stains and the dna- Don’t these cops have their dna on file? As well as prints ? They said the others were unidentified. Could be from anything imo.

You are right. I noticed that too from EMT.
I started listening more closely after that and he seemed to be speaking by rote..

 

[TIGER0822]

I wonder if the flip JMcC refers to is the one that occurs KerR wraps JOK’s head? KerR testifies that they found JOK on his back but as she checks him over and removes snow from his face she notices he is bleeding at the back of his head. She decides to check to see if he has a head wound and sees he has a cut at the back of his head. She admits she can’t really recall what she wrapped it but her testimony was very thorough, easy to follow and seemed genuine or honest in my opinion. I think she wraps his head prior to starting CPR.

@19:29

I call nonsense! The timestamp is 15.15 -3.15pm in the afternoon! Moo

I have an open mind. If they can show me she was not there, wasn't drunk, didn't speed down the road backward, her tail light wasn't broken, those pieces on him and in the yard are are not her tail light, that isn't his DNA on her tail light, then I'll definitely change sides.

None of those, apart from the tail light, which mysteriously changed from a small piece missing (per pic. evidence), to large chunks being found are circumstantial evidence that she killed him.
If you can convince me that:
the bite and scratch marks were caused by a car.
- two phones were destroyed before a protective order came out for legitimate reasons
-Another reason for the gift ‘when it is all over’.
-The secret text to his sister saying essentially ssh.. Colin )? It was someone in the house was involved.
-the defensive reaction ‘I advise you to stop talking when KR brought up ‘we are all in on the joke, righr’
Never mind the fiasco of the recon. trooper (likely they could not find an expert to back up their position). If you can convince me that these are not evidence of a likely cover up, I will come around to considering that there is no reasonable doubt in the case.

-

-

 

[TTF14]

Sorry for the long story, but this is the context from my perspective.

RSBM

Don't apologize. It was exactly what I wanted. Thank you for taking the time to do it! Wow, I didn't know they originally claimed there was video. That's crazy.

Thanks again!

 

[TTF14]

-The secret text to his sister saying essentially ssh.. Colin )? It was someone in the house was involved.


-

RSBM

I missed this....can you explain?

 

[TIGER0822]

Has it ever been addressed as to how KR thought JOK would be getting home? Or did she just assume he'd find his way back or take an Uber or something?

Maybe waiting for a call?

 

[TIGER0822]

RSBM

I missed this....can you explain?

I will have to dig back. Give me some time and I will find it.

 

[JudyBolton]

BBM - This part is huge, IMO. I can't think of another reason for that other than "planted evidence."

As far as Trooper Paul....I felt so bad for that guy. It made me wonder how he got put into that job in the first place, 4 years after becoming a Trooper. He's probably always hard to understand (seems to have some speech issues), but his lack of knowledge combined with that made him a very poor witness for the State. I think he was just doing his job (forced to be the one to testify) and it was probably the last place he wanted to be--on that stand! Poor guy.

IMO MOO

BBM - I found it pretty obvious that the prosecution could not find a single, reliable, educated expert who was willing to testify about the vehicle in a manner that supported their theory. It is their reputation after all and a great many people are watching.

Therefore, this guy, with a few classes, was coached and put on the stand. My goodness, he couldn't even remember the "findings" without trying to read the report which he unsuccessfully tried to memorize. Take note of the defense experts who are able to clearly speak and explain things because ...well... they are experts!

 

[JudyBolton]

I don’t think it matters much if the doctor comes in. How can anyone vote guilty if the two other expert witnesses say the car did not cause the injuries to JO? Does anyone think trooper Paul’s testimony convinced anyone compared to those two?

The Dr might be good for a little added insurance with the Jury, but IMO not necessary at all.

MOO

I agree but you never know what each member of the jury is thinking. This dog bite evidence/expert might be the thing that convinces one juror and it is Karen's right to defend against "the tail light did it!" theory. After weeks and weeks ad nauseam of the prosecution witnesses, surely this judge cannot prevent the defense from using this expert in their mere 4 days of testimony?

 

[mzmarymac]

Stream of consciousness questions.

Why did KR not want JOK to go to the party and she definitely did NOT want to go to the party? My guess is that he had already questioned her about "hooking up with Brian Higgins, so he was suspicious. She ignored BH at the bar, strategically. He even texted her like "ummm...what's going on" or something to that effect. He was obviously drinking heavily and he and BA were play fighting, etc...at the bar.

They end up at the house, JOK walks in and is guided down the stairs and perhaps HE is the one that confronts BH about messing with his girlfriend. BA gets in the middle of it and a fight ensues. Chloe gets in the middle and somehow, in the process, JOK falls and hits his head on something and either dies or is unconscious. Maybe they leave him down there and act natural until everyone leaves and JMc goes to bed.

BA and BH carry him out of the house and leave him on the front lawn. Not sure if and when the kid was or wasn't involved, but he does seem pretty sketchy to me. Undecided. Maybe they felt they could attribute it to him getting hit by a car or getting drunk and falling. I don't think there was a "plan." Just get him OUT of the house!

Why would they do that, even if it was an accident and JOK "started it?"

Well, I believe they thought they'd get blamed, or the dog/homeowner would get blamed or whatever. They didn't like KR so figured she'd probably take the hit for hitting him, hit and run, maybe cop a plea and it would all go away. Things snowballed from there.

All I know is this. KR and BH were being flirtatious. Not sure if she was doing it just to get a rise out of JOK or what she was thinking because, well...ewww...JMO...but whatever.

So...KR did NOT want those 2 to meet up so she wanted to go home but didn't feel good and probably didn't want to see BH, so she wanted to avoid the party. But JOK persisted and off he went. What I "imagine" happened is that shortly after he arrived, whether he went straight to the basement or perhaps got called from the back yard, some words started getting exchanged.

JOK getting in BH's face for trying to get with his girl. BH saying hey man, she's the one after me I'll show you the texts. Things got a bit physical, maybe a couple of punches were thrown. Chloe went after JOK, who then fell and hit his head somewhere somehow. I think very few people know this is the truth. I don't know that I believe Jen McC or anyone else needs to be "in on it" at all. After that BA & BH crafted the narrative with the help of what JMc & Kerry told them and the rest was just a whole bunch of confirmation bias and crooked copwork.

JMO

 

[mzmarymac]

I have an open mind. If they can show me she was not there, wasn't drunk, didn't speed down the road backward, her tail light wasn't broken, those pieces on him and in the yard are are not her tail light, that isn't his DNA on her tail light, then I'll definitely change sides.

Not trying to be rude or judgmental here, but having an open mind means that the state has to prove beyond any reasonable doubt. You're looking at it the other way around. IMO

 

[HarmonyE.]

I agree but you never know what each member of the jury is thinking. This dog bite evidence/expert might be the thing that convinces one juror and it is Karen's right to defend against "the tail light did it!" theory. After weeks and weeks ad nauseam of the prosecution witnesses, surely this judge cannot prevent the defense from using this expert in their mere 4 days of testimony?

IIRC, Lally didn't even object to her testifying in a limited manner. I think the judge lets her in, but limits her testimony. I don't think she's as necessary as the biomechanical experts provided by the FBI, more of a nice to have. Twelve people is a lot of people, and once the jurors start talking to each other, I think they'll convince each other those are animal marks. They know about Chloe and her history.

The arm, the snowplow guy, and Proctor. Not guilty, your honor.