MA - Remains of 3 infants found, Erika Murray charged, Blackstone, Sept 2014

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I am not remotely surprised that the deceased babies were clothed and had lived for a while. I wonder how long they lived before they died. I really think the two girls that were rescued were just lucky to have lived as long as they have. When they died (and they would have, IMO) she would have just told the older kids that she wasn't baby sitting any more.

I, too, am under the impression that there were deceased babies in the older kids rooms. Again, not surprised. I don't think the house was sectioned off as much as one might think, I think the older kids were well aware of the disgust that they were surrounded by.

So sad and I'm still waiting for RR to be arrested and have heaps of charges brought against him. Ignorance is BS. His girlfriend was pregnant 7 times.
 
With all the lies and deception EM practiced, I'm wondering why she told the two older kids the true paternity of the younger girls in the first place. Very risky to do since she wanted it kept a secret from even the father. Makes me think they were probably there for the home deliveries. And as for the deceased children, two where in diapers and the third with a full head of hair, the two older kids must have known of their existence and demise as well. Absolutely horrifying.
 
Ugh the details about the 3-year-old break my heart. That level of neglect is one of the most disturbing things that can happen. And it illustrates a lot about brain development - I can definitely believe that less severe neglect can have lifelong consequences for young children that get mistaken as mere issues of behavior. The brain just doesn't develop correctly - tons of connections are just irretrievably lost. Horrific.
 
From the link to the telegram report Sapo posted above:

"state police found the skeletal remains of three infants in the children's closets upstairs — two dressed in diapers and onesies, the other with a full head of hair stuffed in a sack or backpack, he said. The remains of two dogs were also found in an upstairs bedroom closet" . . . "She has never driven and doesn't know how," he said. "For the most part, the past seven or eight years she has gone nowhere. She hasn't worked, has no money, no assets, and at this point, no clothes … because of the horrific nature of the allegations, she has nowhere to go. Her face has been shown throughout the country on TV. It is inconceivable she would go anywhere. She has no means to go anywhere."

He said she has had no money of her own for 10 years . . . "Is it conceivable if the children were stillborn she would put onesies on them before putting them in the closet?" he said. "Why not? The fact she put them in the closet is a clear indicator of mental illness. The dead infants were not put into the closet to hide them any more than the two dead dogs were put into the closet to hide them. The dogs were not a secret. They were old and died."
 
Here is another article:

Earlier that month, Murray had told her oldest two children “to lie about the babies to their father” and to tell Rivera that Murray was babysitting the children . . . she gave birth to the two young children in her upstairs bathroom, . . .
"When investigators returned to the house with a search warrant last month, they found the skeleton of a young baby with a “fairly full head of hair” stuffed into a backpack in one of the older children’s bedroom closet. In the other older child’s bedroom closet, they found the skeletal remains of two more babies".

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_op...slam_prosecutor_says_erika_murrays_babies_not

picture of shocked looking RR & video @ link
 
I guess I just could not fathom that she would place the deceased remains in her older children's closets . . . . (WTF?) Seriously! I think if I were the 13 y/o girl I would claim she is not my Mother too!

What part of any of this made sense to her? Was it her own selfishness that clouded each and every decision she made?
 
A couple more articles:

This one repeats others that have been posted but interesting how they worded this part:
"After interviewing the 10-year-old and 13-year-old, police got a search warrant and went back to the house, where they found the skeletal remains of one baby with a full head of hair in a backpack in the closet of an upstairs bedroom.

After discovering those remains, police obtained another search warrant. During the second search, they found the remains of two other babies in another bedroom, also inside a closet. The two oldest children slept in the bedrooms."

http://seattletimes.com/html/nation...abiesbodiesmassachusetts.html?syndication=rss

**This article makes it sound like the older children told LEO about the long haired deceased infant's skeletal remains upstairs - then they returned the next day to find the 2 more deceased remains - one each of the older kid's room closets. OK - anybody know of a 10 y/o or a 13 y/o that hasn't seen everything in their own room? I am now thinking that EM put a dead baby in each of her kid's closets! Maybe to further intimidate the older kids if they told her secrets???

and then this quote from EM's Atty:

"'There are parts of this story that make absolutely no sense,' said Halpern, reports CBSBoston.

'It makes no sense particularly given how small this house was, that he could've lived in this house and shared this bedroom and not realized that there were these two that shared the house with him".

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2792523/Prosecutors-2-dead-babies-alive.html#ixzz3GEWyPa8D

So . . . . I am trusting the dailymail for the quoted part from the Atty which would indicate 3 bedrooms on the main floor (EM's & RR's + 10 y/o + 13 y/o) and RR didn't actually sleep down in the basement if he slept with EM. RR used the kitchen & bathroom of the mainfloor in that house and there are 2 dead infants in his own older kids bedrooms. He never tucked them in at night? Never sat on their bed and talked to his kids in their room? Never smelled the foul odor of death eminating from the closets in his children's rooms?

Nothing has come out that gives me any ounce of proof that these people actually cared more about their children's needs than their own! EM's fb account was the only source of info that even resembles that she had some understanding of her children's experience in the world - and that turned out to be all a facade!
 
Here is a local news station link with video from the courtroom yesterday.

http://www.wcvb.com/news/parents-in-blackstone-house-of-squalor-case-to-be-in-court/29113918

Apparently court proceedings were videotaped and at least one local station had clips - is there anyway to get access to court video and access to the documents from LEO?

It should be noted, RR showed up in court and was told to go hire an Atty to represent him. RR looking a little "clueless"?
 
wenwe4 said:
Nothing has come out that gives me any ounce of proof that these people actually cared more about their children's needs than their own! EM's fb account was the only source of info that even resembles that she had some understanding of her children's experience in the world - and that turned out to be all a facade!
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The only explanation that makes any sense is a LOT of drug use and a strong sense of denial. The kids were told not to tell the dad about the siblings so it doesn't sound like he was ACTIVELY involved. However, IMHO, if your inaction allow any kids to live the ways these kids were living, you are just as guilty.

I am thinking since he wasn't actively involved, it is a little harder to prove. I am hoping that they are content for the moment with the pot charges and so are holding off on other charges until they have a more solid case.
 
sapofamily said:
And EM was worried about her cat that got out of the house '...not making it.' (can't find the exact article again) -- this demonstrates her ability to detach from reality. Lady, you have given birth to SEVEN children (that we know of) and only TWO have managed to function in the outside world, but yet you care more about a cat's well being? That's definitely insane.
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Here is your article:

"Aug. 28, Erika didn’t shed a tear or plead with authorities not to take away her 13-year-old daughter, 10-year-old son, 3-year-old daughter and 5-month-old baby girl.

The 31-year-old mother only had one big concern: Her cat had escaped the filthy house and she was worried her pet wouldn’t make it through the night."

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_op...lam_house_of_horrors_hid_murray_s_secret_life
 
ellemo said:
The only explanation that makes any sense is a LOT of drug use and a strong sense of denial. The kids were told not to tell the dad about the siblings so it doesn't sound like he was ACTIVELY involved. However, IMHO, if your inaction allow any kids to live the ways these kids were living, you are just as guilty.

I am thinking since he wasn't actively involved, it is a little harder to prove. I am hoping that they are content for the moment with the pot charges and so are holding off on other charges until they have a more solid case.
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I'm not buying it at all. Although it was an opinion article, the Boston Herald "Heslam: House of horrors hid Murray’s secret life" painted a picture as if they functioned as a "couple" despite both of their claims of not knowing what was really going on (EM's claim to the police about the marijuana in the basement & RR's claim about the conditions of the home/knowledge of the other children).

Earlier this year, Erika and Rivera hosted their 10-year-old son’s birthday party at PiNZ Entertainment in Milford. There was pizza, cake, laser tag and arcade games. Their 13-year-old daughter was there and brought a friend.

Erika and Rivera were “very affectionate” with one another at the party, said a neighbor and preschool teacher whose son is friends with the couple’s son.

“He would put his arm around her and they would talk,” said the woman, who has been interviewed by police and didn’t want her name published.

“We would see each other at Market Basket,” said the woman, who saw the couple bringing the groceries inside their home together. “He drove her around.”
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http://www.bostonherald.com/news_op...lam_house_of_horrors_hid_murray_s_secret_life
 
This case, it just won't leave me alone. I know others are obsessing too. At least I feel in good company.
 
wenwe4 said:
What part of any of this made sense to her? Was it her own selfishness that clouded each and every decision she made?
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I don't know why everyone keeps going to selfishness and evil plotting - I mean was she really living some sort of enviable life? Her mental illness was clearly clouding her decisions. The legal fault debate is complicated, but something is not okay with this woman. Her actions weren't selfish so much as self-destructive, and also very destructive to others, but not in any way that can really be said to have benefited her.
 
This story is so far out there. What a horrid mess. Thank goodness the living kids made it out.

Both parents are suffering from either serious mental illness, total apathy, or something even more sinister.

Too bad those two hooked up. I'd like to think only one person in a duo would live this way. There's absolutely no way the father was clueless, IMO.

Does anyone know the square footage of the home? Sorry if this had been addressed.
 
No way RR didn't know, imo. No way, and to not charge him would be doing a great disservice to the children both living and deceased. The road to healing for all will be arduous.
 
Hejlena said:
No way RR didn't know, imo. No way, and to not charge him would be doing a great disservice to the children both living and deceased. The road to healing for all will be arduous.
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I agree. I hope he gets a good attorney because he is in just as much trouble as she is. Forcing children to live in a filthy house with drugs being grown in the basement is child abuse. For all I know, his wife could be a battered woman, with the mistaken belief she was incapable of finding a way out for herself and children. It is a red flag that her husband didn't make any effort to prevent pregnancy yet he told her he didn't want more children. He left it all up to her and she was afraid to tell him of the existence of two alive children. That's pretty controlling behavior on his part.

JMO
 
I am wondering about whether EM's atty will argue that she was a battered woman who was completely dependent upon RR as she did not drive, had no income, and no way out.
 
IMO defense may well try to go at this with the battered woman/mental illness two pronged attack. For me, the profound neglect of those two living youngest children cannot be explained by battered woman syndrome. Not wanting to lose a man you feel financially dependent on to the degree that you will hide pregnancies, keep the babies around only to profoundly neglect them, doesn't add up. Now maybe that excuse will be used to explain the dead infants. But still not satisfactorily for me. If you fear your man, and he says no more kids, you do not hide the pregnancy, kill or neglect to death the result of the pregnancies and then keep the corpses in the closets. You get rid of the corpses (evidence). Especially if you fear a beating.

Same with the ones she allowed to live (barely) - why? If you fear retribution from a violent man you let those infants go the way of the others and then get rid of those bodies. You don't keep the children alive (barely) and simply leave them up on a bed to cry and lay in their own filth.

Doesn't track. Not for me. I feel like mental illness may be an easier sell for her defense.
 
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