MA - Remains of 3 infants found, Erika Murray charged, Blackstone, Sept 2014

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Since the oldest children are living with RR's family (presumably his mother?), I wonder if they're allowing him visitation?? At minimum, he is a perpetrator by omission.
• Any recent act or failure to act on the part
of a parent or caretaker which results in
death, serious physical or emotional harm,
sexual abuse or exploitation; or
• An act or failure to act which presents an
imminent risk of serious harm.
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https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/focus/acts/acts.pdf
 
“She [told police] the child was being kept in one of the upstairs bedrooms in a bassinet,’’ Halpern said. “She wasn’t aware of any problem with the child. She put the child down for a period of time.’’
Murray told police that “she left the room for an hour or two, came back, and the child was dead. That’s what she told police,” Halpern said.
The child was alive for “a number of days,’’ according to Murray’s account, Halpern said. He declined to provide further details about the child and also would not discuss Murrary’s current mental status.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...e-were-told/FSAIXDdnWIRLdAlUCkrV8N/story.html

The attorney points to the live, profoundly neglected, younger children to demonstrate if she murdered the dead infants it would follow she would murder the others too.

He is suggesting she took no action to kill those infants. I tend to agree, she did not take any action which killed them. She took no action therefore they died is my take on it.

Couple of days is about what it takes for someone to die from lack of food or water. Just saying. The attorney acts as if neglecting a baby's basic life sustaining needs is not murder. I would think it is. Maybe the two younger children are only alive because she ran out of closets to hide dead ones in.

This woman is obviously seriously messed up in the head but I do not believe she will be found incompetent or insane by its legal criminal definition. She was not so messed up that she did not know that to live, people need sustenance and without it they will die. Shew as also aware enough to go to great pains to hide the hell that was her home. Shows me consciousness of guilt. If people knew, she would suffer consequences, therefore people could not know. JMO
 
tlcya said:
“She [told police] the child was being kept in one of the upstairs bedrooms in a bassinet,’’ Halpern said. “She wasn’t aware of any problem with the child.
She put the child down for a period of time.’’
Murray told police that “she left the room for an hour or two, came back, and the child was dead. That’s what she told police,” Halpern said.
The child was alive for “a number of days,’’ according to Murray’s account, Halpern said. He declined to provide further details about the child and also would not discuss Murrary’s current mental status.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...e-were-told/FSAIXDdnWIRLdAlUCkrV8N/story.html

The attorney points to the live, profoundly neglected, younger children to demonstrate if she murdered the dead infants it would follow she would murder the others too.

He is suggesting she took no action to kill those infants. I tend to agree, she did not take any action which killed them. She took no action therefore they died is my take on it.

Couple of days is about what it takes for someone to die from lack of food or water. Just saying. The attorney acts as if neglecting a baby's basic life sustaining needs is not murder. I would think it is. Maybe the two younger children are only alive because she ran out of closets to hide dead ones in.

This woman is obviously seriously messed up in the head but I do not believe she will be found incompetent or insane by its legal criminal definition. She was not so messed up that she did not know that to live, people need sustenance and without it they will die. Shew as also aware enough to go to great pains to hide the hell that was her home. Shows me consciousness of guilt. If people knew, she would suffer consequences, therefore people could not know. JMO
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I agree wholeheartedly! Her atty does her no favors by supporting the 'she has not committed a violent act therefore no harm was done' sort of mentality. Rather, I love your wording "she took no action therefore they died"!

Notice a pattern of behaviors here with her in the first few bonded lines above (BBm)? She wasn't aware of a problem, she wasn't gone very long, it wasn't her fault, she couldn't have prevented any of this . . . . All sounds much like what she said when the children were first picked up. Remember when the neighbor said EM actually laughed when asked if she left the home knowing those babies were in the house (for hours)? So . . . Even though she had a baby die when she left it alone for a couple of hours, she laughed when confronted with leaving 2 home alone for hours!

Neglect is often more harmful and can have longer lasting effects than violent acts, because the human body is designed to try and heal from fractures, cuts, abrasions, and bruises. Emotional neglect is a whole different animal - IMO.
 
The attorney is definitely trying to make it an omission rather than an overt act. The criminal penalties are generally different. He's not trying to say no harm was done, but he is trying to minimize her fault, as that is his job.
 
Yes, I don't fault him for attempting to give vigorous defense to his client. Simply pointing out that we all know and understand the strategy being employed and I am not swayed by it.
 
I am drawn to this case, just as I was to the Shannon Gore case. Many times I have asked myself why. I think I've figured it out. Growing up, I was mildly neglected. Not extreme -- but more neglected than the other kids I knew (especially from age 13 on). For example, my mom worked nights and was always asleep in the morning when I was getting ready for school. I would dig through her jean pockets looking for change to buy cookies or chips at school for lunch. I would often pick up dirty clothes and wear them again. Our house was a mess, with overflowing ashtrays and mold in the shower. I was embarrassed to have friends over because our dog liked to rub against the walls and there was a foot-wide dirt smudge lining all our walls. Nobody checked to see if I was doing my homework. We had a lot of Tang and ramen soup and not much else to eat in our house. I ended up pregnant at age 16 (while mom was out at night I was basically left to do what I wanted). When I found out I was pregnant, I immediately got my behind in gear! Started budgeting how much diapers cost, saving money, figuring out how I was going to take care of a baby. I did it. I got a job, insurance, an apartment, all with no welfare or anything. I worked hard at giving her attention and a home life that I would have wanted. My daughter is now graduated from college and is a wonderful human being. Backing up a bit -- while I was raising her I would occasionally have this strange and horrible nightmare where I would return to my mom's house and discover that I had left my baby daughter there, forgetting her completely for months or years, and she was now on the verge of starving to death, etc. The horror, guilt, shame, sadness I felt during this nightmare was terrible. Now I realize that this dream had to do with feeling neglected by my mom and my unresolved issues with her. These cases touch me for that reason. I feel such ANGER and DEEP SORROW and HORROR on behalf of these children. And such love for them. :heartbeat:
 
Thanks for sharing your story, HaikuMommy. I'm so happy you rose above and provided a great life for your daughter. Hugs!
 
HaikuMommy said:
I am drawn to this case, just as I was to the Shannon Gore case. Many times I have asked myself why. I think I've figured it out. Growing up, I was mildly neglected. Not extreme -- but more neglected than the other kids I knew (especially from age 13 on). For example, my mom worked nights and was always asleep in the morning when I was getting ready for school. I would dig through her jean pockets looking for change to buy cookies or chips at school for lunch. I would often pick up dirty clothes and wear them again. Our house was a mess, with overflowing ashtrays and mold in the shower. I was embarrassed to have friends over because our dog liked to rub against the walls and there was a foot-wide dirt smudge lining all our walls. Nobody checked to see if I was doing my homework. We had a lot of Tang and ramen soup and not much else to eat in our house. I ended up pregnant at age 16 (while mom was out at night I was basically left to do what I wanted). When I found out I was pregnant, I immediately got my behind in gear! Started budgeting how much diapers cost, saving money, figuring out how I was going to take care of a baby. I did it. I got a job, insurance, an apartment, all with no welfare or anything. I worked hard at giving her attention and a home life that I would have wanted. My daughter is now graduated from college and is a wonderful human being. Backing up a bit -- while I was raising her I would occasionally have this strange and horrible nightmare where I would return to my mom's house and discover that I had left my baby daughter there, forgetting her completely for months or years, and she was now on the verge of starving to death, etc. The horror, guilt, shame, sadness I felt during this nightmare was terrible. Now I realize that this dream had to do with feeling neglected by my mom and my unresolved issues with her. These cases touch me for that reason. I feel such ANGER and DEEP SORROW and HORROR on behalf of these children. And such love for them. :heartbeat:
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^^^THIS times 1000! This is why I get frustrated when people perpetuate the cycle of abuse/neglect. You did something about your situation, you made a better life for your child, you did what common sense should dictate. You didn't like what your life was, so you changed it for not only yourself but your child.

I came out of a unfortunate situation along with 4 siblings. We all left home and never looked back, made better lives for ourselves and our families, working multiple jobs when necessary. I think about my childhood more frequently now that I have children and I can't even fathom my child in the situation I was in. I want to protect my children from such things.
 
The infant that was found with a full head of hair, dressed in a diaper & onsie, who lived for one or a few days, was found in the upstairs closet IIRC. Does this mean there might be more than skeletal remains, like skin attached to the hair/scalp. Anyone remember Caylee Anthony's hair on her skeletal remains? Could they do tox screens on the hair samples?
EM must have placed this child upstairs where the other living babies were. Why not place all 3 dead babies together? Were the animal carcasses found upstairs? I am not sure exactly where the 10 & 13 y/o's bedroom(s) were, but skeletal remains were found in the children's closet(s). Why place dead babies near the very people you are dependent upon keeping your secrets? I cannot think of more than a couple of excuses: didn't know what she was doing, didn't care about the remains - both would not require "hiding" the remains. The only logical conclusion to me was witness intimidation. Anyone have thoughts?

I wish joypath or someone with similar experience could chime in here on the possibility of findings from the remains.
 
wenwe4 said:
The infant that was found with a full head of hair, dressed in a diaper & onsie, who lived for one or a few days, was found in the upstairs closet IIRC. Does this mean there might be more than skeletal remains, like skin attached to the hair/scalp. Anyone remember Caylee Anthony's hair on her skeletal remains? Could they do tox screens on the hair samples?
EM must have placed this child upstairs where the other living babies were. Why not place all 3 dead babies together? Were the animal carcasses found upstairs? I am not sure exactly where the 10 & 13 y/o's bedroom(s) were, but skeletal remains were found in the children's closet(s). Why place dead babies near the very people you are dependent upon keeping your secrets? I cannot think of more than a couple of excuses: didn't know what she was doing, didn't care about the remains - both would not require "hiding" the remains. The only logical conclusion to me was witness intimidation. Anyone have thoughts?

I wish joypath or someone with similar experience could chime in here on the possibility of findings from the remains.
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I'm guessing there was either some level of mummification or that the remains were never removed from the backpack. The hair won't decompose very quick, it will fall away from the skin after so long(assuming no mummification), but it won't decay. So if the baby was never removed, then the hair wouldn't be anywhere but in that bag.
 
I came out of a very similar situation HaikuMommy. We lived in the "projects" and I was basically on my own from the age of 10. I was pregnant by 15. Many of my relative's (nieces/nephews/cousins) grew up in poverty, drug saturated/addicted environments, and filth. My mother was really obsessed with outward appearances though. It didn't matter how dysfunctional our/our family's lives were, we/they had to appear outwardly "normal". I wonder if it was like that for EM? When EM's mother, SM, commented on nearly all of EM's Facebook posts. Most of them seemed like she (SM) needed as much validation of being a good mom/grandmother as EM did posting about how good her house smelled, meals, etc. Once my eldest child was born a month after I turned 16, I married a much older man because that's what was expected since I had a child. It makes me wonder if it was something along those lines that kept her with RR. In EM skewed perception and even though it may have been dysfunctional (drug use/selling, poverty, etc.) it was a familiar situation, the "right thing to do", or fear of being alone? Co-dependency?

I have my theories as to WHY this happened. However, I will never be able to understand it. The one thing I TRY to keep in mind is that there is a lot we don't see or know. Nothing, I mean NOTHING excuses any of this by any of the adults supposed to protect, love, and nurture these children. One of my theories is that EM suffered from PPD after the birth of the infant found in the backpack. I was fortunate enough to have a very understanding, supportive husband and doctor when I went through PPD. Mine presented as apathy. Serious apathy. I wanted nothing to do with my newborn or anyone for that matter. It was one of the worst times in my life. I consciously knew my baby depended on me, but I was so disconnected I didn't care about him or myself. I just couldn't do anything beyond exist. If EM had her babies back to back, I can only imagine what that did to her hormonally and psychologically. Again, I am not absolving her of responsibility. Now that I've had time to think about this more in-depth and beyond my initial reaction. I've tried to make more sense of it all.

In regards to the remains of the infant with the head full of hair, I agree with Oblio. If the remains were not exposed to elements, enclosed in the backpack in a dark closet, and kept at a pretty consistent temperature then there will be more than just bones. One of the rooms upstairs had an air conditioner in the window. I wonder if that was the room the 2 older children may have shared with the closet where the backpack was stored (gah, I hate even "saying" that)? I don't know how humid it gets in MA, but I know with window AC units a room can get pretty dry and cold. So I would think that would aid in preserving the body. The older kids knew of that infant (at least the remains) and the two living children upstairs...Does anyone think they knew of the two other deceased infants? I wonder how EM was able to convince the children not to say anything to anyone? I also feel the only reason the two youngest survived that nightmare was because of the two older children. Sadly, I feel the only child that may not be as severely affected by this situation is the youngest baby. I can't even imagine what this has done to the 13 year old. Do you guys think this will go to trial? I don't know all the legalities...After she enters her not guilty plea, is that it unless she confesses or makes some type of deal? Can she change her plea? What is the purpose of the Nov. court date? She's been arraigned on some charges (first court appearance), has entered a not guilty plea and bond set (second appearance), what's expected at the next hearing?
 
SaucyGal said:
I came out of a very similar situation HaikuMommy. We lived in the "projects" and I was basically on my own from the age of 10. I was pregnant by 15. Many of my relative's (nieces/nephews/cousins) grew up in poverty, drug saturated/addicted environments, and filth. My mother was really obsessed with outward appearances though. It didn't matter how dysfunctional our/our family's lives were, we/they had to appear outwardly "normal". I wonder if it was like that for EM?
Click to expand...

Hugs to you, SaucyGal. I know what it's like to realize "nobody is going to take care of me except ME" from a young age like that. Been there.

I too find myself relating to / understanding EM sometimes, just a little. It's like I can put myself in the shoes of her older children due to my childhood, but I can also put myself in EM's shoes due to being a teen mom, feeling overwhelmed, financially strapped, etc. Then that all comes to a screeching halt with the poor hidden, ignored, abused, neglected babies! That just completely blows my mind, as I'm sure it does yours! It actually physically hurts to think about.

I once knew a lady, had her in my home actually, who was having a psychotic break days after having a baby. She was asking me if her baby was the devil, etc. and running away from her husband all over my house, saying his eyes were evil. It was a very hairy ride to the emergency room because she looked like she was going to jump out of the car. When women commit horrible acts in that sort of state and mindset, I realize they truly are temporarily insane. EM seems to be more split-off, detached, etc. I see mental illness there, but I'm not sure I'd say she wasn't responsible for her actions. If her attorney IS going to argue mental illness, here's my thought: those like EM who aren't OBVIOUSLY insane and yet harm children, should maybe be locked up in a hospital for life after crimes like these -- otherwise, how would anyone know if they were doing things that harm others again, since they show no outward signs? At least with a psychotic break you can tell when the person is no longer talking to demons, etc. JMO
 
The sfgate link above states The dead babies were born starting 8 years ago according to EM's atty. That would mean hiding pregnancy and/or death since 2006. Wasn't KR living in the home with her kids & possibly her boyfriend until 2007?
 
SaucyGal said:
Great photos here (over 60 photos)..Some of them you can see the (sub?)floor. Others you can kind of get an idea of how the stairs were in relation to bedrooms. There are some shots of the wall next to a door frame that looks to have either mold or feces. :facepalm:

http://www.wcvb.com/news/home-where-babies-bodies-found-being-torn-down/29248926
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Okay, this showed me a lot.

When one entered the front door of the house, the stairs were directly in front of them. The landing(if you could call it that, it was quite small) appears to have had three doors. One to either side going to a bedroom each, and one directly in front. I would assume this is the closet where most was contained. I noticed that the first bedroom torn into had drywall intact, but this closet had no drywall. The second bedroom can't be seen because the end of the house was collapsing by then. In the downstairs, there is a galley kitchen in the back, with that photo of the kitchen being taken looking in the back door. The one interior wall of the kitchen is shared with the bathroom. The living/dining area of the house is between the front door and the exterior wall to the left of it. The back corner is the kitchen, beside the bathroom. Then I am assuming(because I couldn't see it) that there is a hall or door under the stairs, just beside the bathroom that leads to the bedroom on the other side of the house. I would think it is probably a long, narrow bedroom. I have not figured out where the basement access is, was it going under the staircase or from outside or down the hall beside the back bedroom?
 
Oblio said:
Okay, this showed me a lot.
Click to expand...

Agreed! I am interested in the layout of the (former) house and thinking about different scenarios where the layout would be key. It also showed just how incredibly close the neighboring apartments/house was!!! I bet I know where all the vermin live now. Thank you for pointing out the bathroom because I kept wondering what the white archway type thing was (I was half asleep when I first looked at these).

tagged.jpg

I hope I labeled these right, if anyone can provide more insight - please do..There is one pic that shows an accordion/wooden slat type door. We have a closet like that in our house but I can't tell if the one in these pics is a door or one of those free standing privacy type screens. IMOO I feel the room that the majority of the refuse/debris was found was the top right/front in these photos (if looking at it straight on from the street it would be the top left front). IIRC that was the window the hazmat crews were throwing things out of and also the room with nasty flooring.

I'll guess that the 3 year old was in that room. The 6 mo old was in the room with the AC unit in the window when she was found (maybe where the older 2 children slept). Then the door/room/closet on the interior of the house was the one the police broke into when they arrived at the home. As I zoomed in it looks more like a closet. That would explain if the neighbor had her back to that door, while trying to comfort the babies from the hall. The police officer asked her what was in the door behind her. This is all MOO and just going from media and first person accounts/interviews. I hope some of what I've said make sense and hopefully the pic will post correctly. I'm such a newbie at posting pics. lol
 
Oblio said:
Okay, this showed me a lot.

When one entered the front door of the house, the stairs were directly in front of them. The landing(if you could call it that, it was quite small) appears to have had three doors. One to either side going to a bedroom each, and one directly in front. I would assume this is the closet where most was contained. I noticed that the first bedroom torn into had drywall intact, but this closet had no drywall. The second bedroom can't be seen because the end of the house was collapsing by then. In the downstairs, there is a galley kitchen in the back, with that photo of the kitchen being taken looking in the back door. The one interior wall of the kitchen is shared with the bathroom. The living/dining area of the house is between the front door and the exterior wall to the left of it. The back corner is the kitchen, beside the bathroom. Then I am assuming(because I couldn't see it) that there is a hall or door under the stairs, just beside the bathroom that leads to the bedroom on the other side of the house. I would think it is probably a long, narrow bedroom. I have not figured out where the basement access is, was it going under the staircase or from outside or down the hall beside the back bedroom?
Click to expand...

BBM - Basement access was from outside below (and to the left of) the stairs that led to the kitchen where we saw a picture taken through that window previously. From the pics it looked like the basement may have only been 2 rooms.
 
Only 1 bathroom on main floor? yet I have read articles that she gave birth in upstairs bathroom????
 
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