MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

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The married man idea crossed my mind also, but as it is totally speculative and casts Vanessa in a cloudy light I basically rejected it, and especially after LE seemed so firm that they had found nothing untoward in her life. Whoever this killer is I just wish they would be caught and convicted. The killer does seem smart and darn arrogant and I hate that he is still out there.
I like with the married man idea theorized by ThinkHard. This type of relationship happens more often than most people are aware of or are willing to admit.
LE having “found nothing” regarding this hypothetical aspect of VM’s life. . . it could be that LE simply hasn’t found it yet.
These types of relationships are most often very secret, and LE perhaps hasn’t yet found any evidence of a relationship with a married man. It doesn’t mean the evidence doesn’t exist.
 
Based on the recent comments, it could be a married person who knew her through something she was involved with, but not necessarily a secret relationship.
 
The longer this goes on, it appears there is hardly anything 'obvious' about this man. Besides not being in the system, possibly not any obvious acting out behavior or minor offenses. He may appear to have a normal successful life with a friendly outward personality (as sociopaths can) and yet deep sickness below the surface. This could be wrong or it could explain why this is a difficult case.
 
Thanks, Searunner. I very much appreciate your posts too. :)

I didn't take your comment as directed at me either. I'd been feeling that way myself for a while. In part, the comments are due to the nature of the crime itself - that is how HE treated her. So I'm posting a picture of her so we can remember how she lived all but a tiny portion of her life. I'm a big coffee addict, so I can definitely relate.

<modsnip>

I don't buy the married theory. He would have hidden his tracks; she wouldn''t have felt the same need. Also, there would be sightings reported after her story hit the news, as well as a paper trail, even if hidden.

I've been studying the crime scene photos, as well as some others. Am on the way out but will post later. But I'd love to hear ideas about it from others.
Respectfully, snipped.

JEF, hope you didn't think I was referring to any of your posts. You have been very respectful when discussing Vanessa and certainly haven't discussed her like an object or piece of meat.

And I can tell her death has affected you very deeply. You seem a very good person. In fact, you're one my favorite posters. :)
 
I like with the married man idea theorized by ThinkHard. This type of relationship happens more often than most people are aware of or are willing to admit.
LE having &#8220;found nothing&#8221; regarding this hypothetical aspect of VM&#8217;s life. . . it could be that LE simply hasn&#8217;t found it yet.
These types of relationships are most often very secret, and LE perhaps hasn&#8217;t yet found any evidence of a relationship with a married man. It doesn&#8217;t mean the evidence doesn&#8217;t exist.

I believe we all have to rememmber that yes anything is possible as to what happened. And if and when this is solved we might find that none of us were correct on our line of thinking. LE has been known to be thrown a loop on cases many times.
Secrets are just that, secrets and some are really good at hiding things. It happens and I am not saying that VM had any but it is a possibility in anything in life really.
How many times have we read " I would have never thought, oh I cant believe it" and bam it is what no one even thought it could possibly be.
All I am saying is that you just never know.
 
I can't speak for Google, but judging that the employees chartered a bus from NY to Ma for the wake, says a lot to me. I am sure this crime involving one of their own, has led them to reach out to LE anyway that they can, and knowing that LE hasn't made much of anything public, it doesn't surprise me that Google is also keeping that quiet.
The one question I do have in regards to keeping things quiet is this.
If they do in fact have DNA, why can't LE at lease tell the public if in fact this crime is connected, or not with the KV crime in Queens? We know they have DNA from that crime. I don't think it is, but it would be nice to at least rule that out,,, unless they don't have any.

Would love to know whether the dna in both cases matched...jmo
 
While anything is possible, not everything is probable.

It's easy to project one's own beliefs, experiences, biases or what have you. None of us here knew this young woman. None of us here know anything except what's been publicized in MSM and other places. It's something that's important to keep in mind because while it might be fun to speculate, the professionals are hard at work trying to bring her justice.
 
Would love to know whether the dna in both cases matched...jmo

They have stated there is nothing to connect the cases...I assume if the DNA connected them they would have changed their stance. I'm assuming because they didn't announce any different connection when they had DNA in both means nothing changed so therefore no need to announce anything different then they already had.

I don't take them not confirming this as it's still a possibility, I take it as confirmation they are not connected, otherwise I believe they would have said so. JMO
 
They have stated there is nothing to connect the cases...I assume if the DNA connected them they would have changed their stance. I'm assuming because they didn't announce any different connection when they had DNA in both means nothing changed so therefore no need to announce anything different then they already had.

I don't take them not confirming this as it's still a possibility, I take it as confirmation they are not connected, otherwise I believe they would have said so. JMO
Didn't they last say there was nothing to connect then but that they also hadn't ruled it out?
 
They have stated there is nothing to connect the cases...I assume if the DNA connected them they would have changed their stance. I'm assuming because they didn't announce any different connection when they had DNA in both means nothing changed so therefore no need to announce anything different then they already had.

I don't take them not confirming this as it's still a possibility, I take it as confirmation they are not connected, otherwise I believe they would have said so. JMO

Although I know that LE will not usually divulge the inner workings of an investigation, I would be convinced there was no connection between these murders if LE said the DNA samples from each victim did not match. jmo,though...
 
Although I know that LE will not usually divulge the inner workings of an investigation, I would be convinced there was no connection between these murders if LE said the DNA samples from each victim did not match. jmo,though...

Not always. That hasn't been my experience following cases. If LE has an original leaning that DNA isn't going to match, unless results prove otherwise they usually don't say anything.

In Cville during the Jesse Matthews investigation, they checked his DNA against unknown DNA in the Alexis Murphy case. They did so at the request of the lawyer resprenting the man serving time for her murder. The fact they were testing his DNA was made into a big deal....but

Never once did the police come forward and say there was no match....there just wasn't a match and so they said nothing.
 
Thanks, Searunner. I very much appreciate your posts too. :)

I didn't take your comment as directed at me either. I'd been feeling that way myself for a while. In part, the comments are due to the nature of the crime itself - that is how HE treated her. So I'm posting a picture of her so we can remember how she lived all but a tiny portion of her life. I'm a big coffee addict, so I can definitely relate.

<modsnip>

I don't buy the married theory. He would have hidden his tracks; she wouldn''t have felt the same need. Also, there would be sightings reported after her story hit the news, as well as a paper trail, even if hidden.

I've been studying the crime scene photos, as well as some others. Am on the way out but will post later. But I'd love to hear ideas about it from others.

You say he would have had to hide his tracks but she wouldn't have hers? But I am not sure how you figure that. As I said in my experience the only reason my friend made the mistake she did was because she was in love BUT she also felt ashamed which is why to this day I am only 1 of 3 people who know and why she didn't tell people at the time, she didn't want them to judge her, still! So I don't agree that a man would have something to hide but a women would not.
 
I'm not saying she would have been open about it. I'm saying IF your scenario is valid, she would not have the same need to cover up her electronic footprint as the guy would. He would delete emails, phone calls, etc. Maybe even have another phone or only contact her via his work computer. Etc, etc. Yes, she would likely keep the relationship secret but she probably wouldn't go out and buy a burner phone, delete messages, etc. She would have no need to do that. Also, having known more than a few women and men in so-called secret relationships, I can say people ALWAYS know. You might think nobody else does, but they do. There would be missing gaps when she came back on weekends, people would have seen them out. Because she stayed with her mother and he was attached, they would have had to meet somewhere, most likely a hotel. After the murder, people who saw them out or at the hotel or whatever would have come forward. And again, there would be a record on her computer, her tablet, her phone - EVEN if she deleted things, which I very much doubt she did. Add to that the manner of death, where the body was found, general reports about her lifestyle and the time she went missing. None of these support the theory of a hidden relationship, whatever your past experience tells you.


You say he would have had to hide his tracks but she wouldn't have hers? But I am not sure how you figure that. As I said in my experience the only reason my friend made the mistake she did was because she was in love BUT she also felt ashamed which is why to this day I am only 1 of 3 people who know and why she didn't tell people at the time, she didn't want them to her, still! So I don't agree that a man would have something to hide but a women would not.
 
I'm not saying she would have been open about it. I'm saying IF your scenario is valid, she would not have the same need to cover up her electronic footprint as the guy would. He would delete emails, phone calls, etc. Maybe even have another phone or only contact her via his work computer. Etc, etc. Yes, she would likely keep the relationship secret but she probably wouldn't go out and buy a burner phone, delete messages, etc. She would have no need to do that. Also, having known more than a few women and men in so-called secret relationships, I can say people ALWAYS know. You might think nobody else does, but they do. There would be missing gaps when she came back on weekends, people would have seen them out. Because she stayed with her mother and he was attached, they would have had to meet somewhere, most likely a hotel. After the murder, people who saw them out or at the hotel or whatever would have come forward. And again, there would be a record on her computer, her tablet, her phone - EVEN if she deleted things, which I very much doubt she did. Add to that the manner of death, where the body was found, general reports about her lifestyle and the time she went missing. None of these support the theory of a hidden relationship, whatever your past experience tells you.

Respectfully disagree.

Additionally I'd like to point out that LE has way more information then we do, and for all we know the police and close family in friends could be privy to some of the info you mentioned above...just because they aren't talking to the news about it, and we aren't in the know..doesn't mean the info doesn't exist.
 
One last thing: MODS please amend if I have not said this tactfully enough.

I want to say that I value everyone's opinion and I do not think one persons contribution is less then or greater then another's.

That said, I do think there are time where people personal experience and perspective are particularly helpful for specific aspects of a situations.

What I mean by this is for example as a white female, I wouldn't sit there and tell someone what a black male thought about something. It would be naive for me to assume I could be a voice for a person who had experienced life very differently then myself.

So at times I believe when people's life is in close parallel to a victim or perp those people can have helpful insight into getting closer to perhaps what that person may or may not have been like...perhaps more so at least then someone from the opposite gender.

Perhaps I am being sensitive, but I am just really sick of going through my whole life feeling like men get to tell women what they should do and how they should feel and think...and like I said perhaps I am sensitive especially when you look at recent politics...but I just don't like when men try to be the voices for women.
 
Regarding the married man theory, keep in mind that VM had Crohns disease, which can make intimacy more of a challenge than a regular affair.

Jmo
 
I don't want this to get snipped for personalization and am saying this respectfully. It's clear some of the theories here are very different and that they can't be easily reconciled. I do believe there may have been some slight/peripheral relationship between VM and her murderer but not one that is similar to what's been discussed over time, in different forms, on this thread. And no, I don't have access to what's been discussed in private by investigators - I'm making my best guess based on what has been released by the DA, police and the press, including photos, public speeches, press releases and articles. But I think we should move on and am not going to continue to address the secret relationship theory in the interest of not offending anyone on this thread.


One last thing: MODS please amend if I have not said this tactfully enough.

I want to say that I value everyone's opinion and I do not think one persons contribution is less then or greater then another's.

That said, I do think there are time where people personal experience and perspective are particularly helpful for specific aspects of a situations.

What I mean by this is for example as a white female, I wouldn't sit there and tell someone what a black male thought about something. It would be naive for me to assume I could be a voice for a person who had experienced life very differently then myself.

So at times I believe when people's life is in close parallel to a victim or perp those people can have helpful insight into getting closer to perhaps what that person may or may not have been like...perhaps more so at least then someone from the opposite gender.

Perhaps I am being sensitive, but I am just really sick of going through my whole life feeling like men get to tell women what they should do and how they should feel and think...and like I said perhaps I am sensitive especially when you look at recent politics...but I just don't like when men try to be the voices for women.
 
That's just speculation of that one poster, as LE has released extremely little info. The general speculation seems to be that she might have been tied to a tree because of some videos and pics of the CS. It's anyone's guess whether the burning took place before she died (torture) or after (trying to erase evidence and/or fascinated by fire). Let's hope after...

This next comment isn't regarding your posts, Madeleine...

Let's remember everyone -- This is a person we're talking about with family and friends and a life until not long ago. She should not be talked about as an object, a piece of meat. (Sorry. Will take off my hall monitor badge now...:)

And now I know what "unsub" means, too! I'm decidedly not a crime show watcher.

This is a person we're talking about with family and friends and a life until not long ago. She should not be talked about as an object, a piece of meat.

It was the Unsub who treated VM inhumanely. My interest is in determining who the killer is. Figure out his MO and it is one step closer to knowing who was capable of committing this horrific crime to Vanessa.

It makes no sense to me to burn a hand, then burn another hand, burn a foot then another foot and then her hair. It makes more sense if this burning was done all at once.

Kidnapping white women, torturing them, cutting their hair and branding them has been occurring with great frequency over the past five years.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/arizona-woman-branded-snitch-face-article-1.223951?0p19G=c

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...randing-Woman-Bronx-NYC-Attack-361590441.html

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/n...even-hour-attack-on-northampton-man-1-3953805

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...rosecuted-new-hate-crime-law-article-1.948983

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/husband-missing-mom-talks-time-weeks-43859936
 
I assume she was burned in order to attempt to destroy evidence of some kind. I also assume this was done post-mortem.

Vanessa was an individual who had her own life, her own thoughts, her own wishes and dreams. She was unique and none of us can know anything about her specifically beyond what has been published or shared by her or someone who knew her.

IMO It doesn't help to fantasize about who she might have been acquainted with in her life. It ultimately comes down to old fashioned gum shoe work by investigators, determining who she did know, what she actually did in her life, her actual movements, and based on the physical evidence and any eyewitness accounts or tips, who she encountered on that road that fateful afternoon.
 
I assume she was burned in order to attempt to destroy evidence of some kind. I also assume this was done post-mortem.

Vanessa was an individual who had her own life, her own thoughts, her own wishes and dreams. She was unique and none of us can know anything about her specifically beyond what has been published or shared by her or someone who knew her.

IMO It doesn't help to fantasize about who she might have been acquainted with in her life. It ultimately comes down to old fashioned gum shoe work by investigators, determining who she did know, what she actually did in her life, her actual movements, and based on the physical evidence and any eyewitness accounts or tips, who she encountered on that road that fateful afternoon.

I don't disagree with you, but the fact remains we aren't privy to the gym shoe detective work, we are limited to a few facts and our own experiences.

Websleuths is in part to slug through various theories and try to piece things together as best we can.

<modsnip>
 
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