MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[Inthedetails]

I think a bike was involved in the KV murder too.
I think the perp lives towards the end of 84th st,in sight of her house, could see KV warming up to jog alone that day, jumped on his bike and pedaled down 84th st to the entrance of the bike path that runs along the Belt Parkway. Then he entered the park through the rear entrance, and headed her off, killed her, pedaled back home and avoided the cameras that way.
He had to know somehow that she was jogging alone that day, and that may be how, unless it was a random crime, which I doubt.

I'll save my comments on that for the KV thread.....

I feel for the two families during this first holiday season without their daughters. I hope they have found ways to feel comfort.

jmo

 

[Cem75]

I assume LE would look at recently released prisoners in the area and maybe cross reference with those serving time for violent sex crimes. Also that it was a Sunday; would that correlate higher with someone who knew her? I wonder what traffic is like on the road on Sundays vs other days of the week. I have an interest in big data analytics and I would think some interesting frameworks could be applied to unsolved cases.

so sad for the family esp during holidays

 

[ThinkHard]

I assume LE would look at recently released prisoners in the area and maybe cross reference with those serving time for violent sex crimes. Also that it was a Sunday; would that correlate higher with someone who knew her? I wonder what traffic is like on the road on Sundays vs other days of the week. I have an interest in big data analytics and I would think some interesting frameworks could be applied to unsolved cases.

so sad for the family esp during holidays

It's a backroad through a very very small town connecting other back roads to other small towns. It has no businesses on it and the homes are spread out. It's a local route and not really a route a visitor in town would find themselves on unless they lived in a neighboring town. It is also not near any highways.

You could drive down it on a wkday or a Sunday and not see another car or you could get stuck behind a car or a trailer going really slow down the whole thing.
It's never super busy by any means, but you can't assume you won't see other cars on it either because it is used enough that a car would roughly pass by every few minutes. Or you could go 20 minutes without seeing a single vehicle. Just depends.

On a Sunday in the summer people from Rutland and Paxton might use the road to get to the Mnt for a summer hike (though aug 7 was very hot), if you were a Princeton resident on a summer day you might also take this route into Paxton or Rutland to get to one of the nurseries if you had a gardening project you were working on...and in the AM perhaps a slight increase in cars for people leaving Princeton or going into Princeton for church or Sunday brunch. But that would be most of the traffic on that road on a Sunday I'd think.

 

[Kickoff61]

It does seem they are correct. The person was familiar with this path she was found. To be that confident to use that path in daylight in an afternoon, shows probability the person is very familiar with it. It seems the person is close by - or if visiting , then would have reason to have visited in close proximity often for a long time. More speculation of course. With so little known, most everything is speculating.

 

[Kickoff61]

Is Brooks Station the only road that goes to Rutland and Paxton?

 

[Black Labs]

One quick thought since I have been commuting back to visit family in Princeton for 20 years after leaving to go to college...Brooks Station road is on the quickest route (avoiding highways) from the Mass pike. GPS will often route that way from Sturbridge to Spencer, Rutland and then Princeton as the most direct route off the Pike. You would also use this route to get from Princeton to the regional high school the fastest vs going rte 31.

It's a backroad through a very very small town connecting other back roads to other small towns. It has no businesses on it and the homes are spread out. It's a local route and not really a route a visitor in town would find themselves on unless they lived in a neighboring town. It is also not near any highways.

You could drive down it on a wkday or a Sunday and not see another car or you could get stuck behind a car or a trailer going really slow down the whole thing.
It's never super busy by any means, but you can't assume you won't see other cars on it either because it is used enough that a car would roughly pass by every few minutes. Or you could go 20 minutes without seeing a single vehicle. Just depends.

On a Sunday in the summer people from Rutland and Paxton might use the road to get to the Mnt for a summer hike (though aug 7 was very hot), if you were a Princeton resident on a summer day you might also take this route into Paxton or Rutland to get to one of the nurseries if you had a gardening project you were working on...and in the AM perhaps a slight increase in cars for people leaving Princeton or going into Princeton for church or Sunday brunch. But that would be most of the traffic on that road on a Sunday I'd think.

 

[ThinkHard]

Is Brooks Station the only road that goes to Rutland and Paxton?

No of course not. It's just the most direct.

 

[ThinkHard]

One quick thought since I have been commuting back to visit family in Princeton for 20 years after leaving to go to college...Brooks Station road is on the quickest route (avoiding highways) from the Mass pike. GPS will often route that way from Sturbridge to Spencer, Rutland and then Princeton as the most direct route off the Pike. You would also use this route to get from Princeton to the regional high school the fastest vs going rte 31.

If you were going from Princeton to the Pike west you wouldn't go BSR you would just go 31 through Holden, Paxton, Spencer and then cut across the Brookfields into Sturbridge and hop on there. I grew up on the Princeton line and this is always the route but I suppose it would depend where in Princeton you lived if you got there BSR or 31. Regardless the pike is still 45 minutes from Princeton via backroads and definely isn't direct.

 

[Madeleine74]

I tend to think if someone were on a bike they (or their bike) would get noticed by someone.

 

[Rocky1]

I tend to think if someone were on a bike they (or their bike) would get noticed by someone.

I agree, but not sure if it would be remembered. That road is great for riding a bike on, because unlike Rt31. that runs parallel, BSR has a shoulder and much less traffic.
What I do think someone would remember, is, someone walking with cuts/scrapes.
The other thing that keeps coming to mind, is, being a Sunday, and people just out for a ride,someone would have looked down that path, if they saw a car/suv parked there, along the road while driving by. Not because they were suspicious, because before Aug 7th, I doubt anyone in Princeton was, but more like a passenger, or kids in the back seat etc. just looking out the window.
I am having a tough time with the car theroy, and I may very well be wrong.

 

[Black Labs]

If you were going from Princeton to the Pike west you wouldn't go BSR you would just go 31 through Holden, Paxton, Spencer and then cut across the Brookfields into Sturbridge and hop on there. I grew up on the Princeton line and this is always the route but I suppose it would depend where in Princeton you lived if you got there BSR or 31. Regardless the pike is still 45 minutes from Princeton via backroads and definely isn't direct.

No disrespect, but I completely disagree. You're not the only local on here and I've done this route hundreds of times. This is the way everyone I know in town cuts through to the Pike who doesn't want to go 190 to 290 or through 146 in Grafton. BSR takes you right over 68 and through Rutland to rte 31 in Spencer, where you pop out by the Black and White restaurant. I think people on this forum seem to think BSR is never used. BSR is the 3rd or 4th (at most) busiest road in town. I was born and raised in Princeton and spent the first 22 years of my life there...kind of know it like the back of my hand. I still go back 2-3 times a year.

 

[ThinkHard]

No disrespect, but I completely disagree. You're not the only local on here and I've done this route hundreds of times. This is the way everyone I know in town cuts through to the Pike who doesn't want to go 190 to 290 or through 146 in Grafton. BSR takes you right over 68 and through Rutland to rte 31 in Spencer, where you pop out by the Black and White restaurant. I think people on this forum seem to think BSR is never used. BSR is the 3rd or 4th (at most) busiest road in town. I was born and raised in Princeton and spent the first 22 years of my life there...kind of know it like the back of my hand. I still go back 2-3 times a year.

As you said your not the only local. If people live further south in Princeton closer to Holden then BSR they are unlikley to back track to BSR to get to the pike, in that case they'd just stick to 31. Like I said it depends where in town they live. Growing up on the town line, 31 was my normal, not saying BSR wasn't yours.

 

[ThinkHard]

I tend to think they wouldn't be asking about a dark SUV unless they had a very good reason to know such a vehicle was involved (eyewitnesses, paint transfer....something like that). They have given out SO little info....I don't think they would just put out that piece if it wasn't part of the facts they did know to be facts. So while this might be just my opinion but I think it makes a lot more sense to think through how the SUV fits the few facts we know....rather then dismissing it off hand as being insignificant because it doesn't fit a theory one is leaning to lew like a bike.....I dunno maybe it's just me...

 

[ThinkHard]

No disrespect, but I completely disagree. You're not the only local on here and I've done this route hundreds of times. This is the way everyone I know in town cuts through to the Pike who doesn't want to go 190 to 290 or through 146 in Grafton. BSR takes you right over 68 and through Rutland to rte 31 in Spencer, where you pop out by the Black and White restaurant. I think people on this forum seem to think BSR is never used. BSR is the 3rd or 4th (at most) busiest road in town. I was born and raised in Princeton and spent the first 22 years of my life there...kind of know it like the back of my hand. I still go back 2-3 times a year.

Also to your very point it's mostly LOCALS as in town of Princeton LOCALS that use that road. Not just anyone.

I've lived in Holden on the Princeton line my whole life, my parents still live there and though I'm not in the house I grew up in, I am still local too. Sunday drives to Princeton for breakfast sandwiches at Mnt Side Market are a weekly ritual.

Yet despite growing up so close I rarely used BSR unless we had a reason to go to the Nursery after our Sunday breakfast, and I went to WRHS and literally like I said lived on the town line.

Which brings me back to the point you so excellently demonstrated ... it is a road commonly used by town residents....much more so then anyone else, even locals in neighboring towns....

So just another point to make me feel even strong that the perp wasn't just local but is likely in my mind to be a town resident or former town resident.

 

[The Farm]

Also to your very point it's mostly LOCALS as in town of Princeton LOCALS that use that road. Not just anyone.

I've lived in Holden on the Princeton line my whole life, my parents still live there and though I'm not in the house I grew up in, I am still local too. Sunday drives to Princeton for breakfast sandwiches at Mnt Side Market are a weekly ritual.

Yet despite growing up so close I rarely used BSR unless we had a reason to go to the Nursery after our Sunday breakfast, and I went to WRHS and literally like I said lived on the town line.

Which brings me back to the point you so excellently demonstrated ... it is a road commonly used by town residents....much more so then anyone else, even locals in neighboring towns....

So just another point to make me feel even strong that the perp wasn't just local but is likely in my mind to be a town resident or former town resident.

This last paragraph is how I have felt from the beginning. Or someone from a close surrounding town that knows the area like the back of his hand.
And I want to say that he was on foot and was able to get away quickly as he knew where he was and where he was going which he would need neither a vehicle or a bike. Slither away like a snake.

 

[Kickoff61]

This last paragraph is how I have felt from the beginning. Or someone from a close surrounding town that knows the area like the back of his hand.
And I want to say that he was on foot and was able to get away quickly as he knew where he was and where he was going which he would need neither a vehicle or a bike. Slither away like a snake.

Maybe another avid runner then? Who would know the roads well and the paths.

 

[FindHG]

No disrespect, but I completely disagree. You're not the only local on here and I've done this route hundreds of times. This is the way everyone I know in town cuts through to the Pike who doesn't want to go 190 to 290 or through 146 in Grafton. BSR takes you right over 68 and through Rutland to rte 31 in Spencer, where you pop out by the Black and White restaurant. I think people on this forum seem to think BSR is never used. BSR is the 3rd or 4th (at most) busiest road in town. I was born and raised in Princeton and spent the first 22 years of my life there...kind of know it like the back of my hand. I still go back 2-3 times a year.

Thank you for this. Great local information and good to know that you are following the thread, not to take away from other sleuthers. I hope you share more of what you feel may add the best and most realistic context to information being considered about the local circumstance. It is much appreciated, Black Lab, and I look forward to more of your thoughts and perspective.

Justice for Vanessa!

FTR:
http://worcesterda.com/news/

Photo: newly posted
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...rcotte-who-was-found-dead-picture-id590119774


Old video, newly posted, about Dark SUV, and her body being found in the woods, naked and burned.
Investigators are welcoming all information about any men who had access to a dark SUV that day.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/video/ca...tail-leads-to-break-in-princeton-murder-case/

Off Topic: Re Familial DNA
https://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/12...in-child-abduction-attempted-child-abduction/
Familial DNA led to the arrest of a Lorain man in the abduction of a Cleveland girl in May and the attempted abduction of an Elyria girl last February.

 

[ThinkHard]

I read this article

https://medium.com/@emmalindsay/men-dump-their-anger-into-women-d5b641fa37bc#.afx4o66mr

And it made me start thinking about a psychological profile in this case. Just to throw out this as a possibility...could it be someone who somehow felt "left behind" i.e. Intimidated by her succes...intimidated by successful women in general but took it personal with her? Not even in a romantic way but perhaps a friend that stayed local or never went away to college and felt like she had become "too good"....not that she treated them this way. Simply suggestion it could have been their perception.

 

[femalejogger]

While I can certainly understand why many are drawing the “local” suspect conclusion, I want to throw out another scenario. Looking at the overhead images of the area, I was surprised to see the multi-unit structure near the corner of Boylston Rd and Rt 31 – it is approx 1/4 mile from the cemetery and definitely stands out among the single family homes.

Apparently these buildings comprise a small HUD housing project. For those who are not aware, these projects house eligible residents from anywhere, not just the local area. And while this complex is for the elderly, I can tell you definitively that disabled younger folks are often housed in these complexes, too. And when I say disabled, that could mean unable to work because of a drug or alcohol addiction.

While I am not suggesting that any resident had anything to do with this, I think the presence of this complex opens the neighborhood to additional folks who may not otherwise have reason to be there. I am thinking CNA’s, children, grandchildren, handymen, cleaning people, or friends from the resident’s previous community which may have been a shelter, jail or rehab facility.

I could see a care-giver or family member visiting the complex each Sunday to see Grandma. Visitor is accompanied by her good-for-nothing boyfriend who normally sits out in the car and smokes. It is a hot summer, his ac doesn’t work so he smokes outside. Other residents have complained (or smoking is banned on property?) so he walks out to the road each Sunday to smoke. VM passes him around the same time a couple of times each month. He figures out her schedule and route and for reasons I can’t even contemplate, decides to kill her. Perhaps he even drove his SUV to the cartpath earlier in the afternoon to scope it out.

Or maybe recovering drug addict resident allows his buddies from the county jail to crash in his apartment. No smoking allowed in apartment so he goes out to the road and same scenario occurs.

I know this is all very hypothetical, but I think it lays out the possibility of a suspect who is familiar with the area from regular visits, but doesn’t live there.

 

[searunner]

While I can certainly understand why many are drawing the “local” suspect conclusion, I want to throw out another scenario. Looking at the overhead images of the area, I was surprised to see the multi-unit structure near the corner of Boylston Rd and Rt 31 – it is approx 1/4 mile from the cemetery and definitely stands out among the single family homes.

Apparently these buildings comprise a small HUD housing project. For those who are not aware, these projects house eligible residents from anywhere, not just the local area. And while this complex is for the elderly, I can tell you definitively that disabled younger folks are often housed in these complexes, too. And when I say disabled, that could mean unable to work because of a drug or alcohol addiction.

While I am not suggesting that any resident had anything to do with this, I think the presence of this complex opens the neighborhood to additional folks who may not otherwise have reason to be there. I am thinking CNA’s, children, grandchildren, handymen, cleaning people, or friends from the resident’s previous community which may have been a shelter, jail or rehab facility.

I could see a care-giver or family member visiting the complex each Sunday to see Grandma. Visitor is accompanied by her good-for-nothing boyfriend who normally sits out in the car and smokes. It is a hot summer, his ac doesn’t work so he smokes outside. Other residents have complained (or smoking is banned on property?) so he walks out to the road each Sunday to smoke. VM passes him around the same time a couple of times each month. He figures out her schedule and route and for reasons I can’t even contemplate, decides to kill her. Perhaps he even drove his SUV to the cartpath earlier in the afternoon to scope it out.

Or maybe recovering drug addict resident allows his buddies from the county jail to crash in his apartment. No smoking allowed in apartment so he goes out to the road and same scenario occurs.

I know this is all very hypothetical, but I think it lays out the possibility of a suspect who is familiar with the area from regular visits, but doesn’t live there.

That's a great find and it certainly seems within the realm of possibilities that someone connected to that HUD housing is involved.

While I have long thought that there's a high probability that a localish ("ish" being key) man was involved, I don't tend to think that he actually lives in Princeton. Granted, killing someone in broad daylight, even in a fairly remote area, shouts either extremely arrogant or not very bright, but I just don't tend to think someone who lives in this town with such a small population would commit this crime in his own backyard, so to speak. That's beyond insanely high risk, as even the most arrogant or stupid person would have to know that the police would easily be able to comb through the males in town. (Though, I acknowledge I'm talking about using an iota of reasoning and self-control...and some folks lack even an iota of one or both abilities.) I lean more toward someone who is very familiar with the area, but lives in an adjacent town. He could be quite familiar with Princeton because he used to live there, has friends/family in the area, runs or bikes in the area, or works (contractor) in the area.

And I can add your potential scenario here -- he could be very familiar with the area because of working at or visiting the HUD housing.