MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #7 *Arrest*

[Evey]

I have a comment re: the topic at hand being discussed by Rocky, DeDee and Kickoff. Some good stuff!

First, I feel compelled to comment on writermom's post last wk, so that we don't lose a potentially helpful contributor and because it's the right thing to do for her sake, IMO. That post had relevance and wasn't unfair, IMO. I think it might have come off as unfair to some *only* because of the post that followed that went off on a tangent. Vanessa had Crohn's, as is well known. We don’t know if she was taking a prescription to help control it. I'm a believer in as little medication as necessary -- but sometimes medications are necessary. (I’d bet Vanessa felt the same way.)

That post relates to the discussion of the possibility of Vanessa running into someone during a "store visit" a while back. It's somewhat nuanced, so I'm not rehashing it. I don't tend to believe the scenario writermom suggested happened for a few reasons. However, there was relevance, IMO. It’s obvious she was following along, as she mentioned the theory proposed about the perp fleeing south. We could use all the people who know how to interact in groups and are at least pretty up-to-speed on things.

However, I agree with the first part of Mainely’s initial response. EVEY -- talk of what RXs you or anyone is taking does not belong here. For one, it is a private matter. Secondly, Mainely is right -- there are unbalanced people out there, some of whom would rob and kill for the controlled medications you take. Please, no need to comment. I don’t want to get this thread more off track.

Mainely – I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I think you *might* have associated writermom’s comment with the one that followed it or... Whatever, I appreciated the thought behind the post. Your sensitivity and intelligence come through clearly. You and people like you make being on this site more palatable to me (and surely others). Being on a crime site (or any open anonymous site) is not my thing. I joined after stumbling across this site while looking for an update about this crime because I found it especially tragic, not to mention infuriating.

Thanks.

I agree that her post is important since she has new ideas and don't want to see her scared off I only replied with what I did to say I don't believe she would be killed for her meds. I believe the worst she would deal with depending on her meds would be annoying people asking for some and don't see that town as having a bad drug problem. And don't think an addict would kill for any meds when they could go buy hard drugs rather than murder. And she wouldn't have her meds on her run and if she was caught on footage at a pharmacy I feel they'd mention it, but it is good to see that people are coming up with new ideas since most of the other ones we've gone over. And again my reply was only because meds got brought up and because I'm willing to look in any directions that will get the case solved and felt like it got assumed she meant Vanessa was on drugs or something like that. Now if she was walking around town with her bag with her meds and a desperate perp was near and willing to kill for pills I would find that plausible but not if she was actually jogging and it honestly doesn't seem like a drug related attack but more of an obsession based one. I'm glad she came with new ideas and hope she stays and wasn't scared off because I think we need to venture outside what we've all already thought of and maybe accidentally end up figuring out something great that we all haven't yet thought of. One thought is do we think LE would release the video or tell us if she was caught on camera anywhere or would they keep it secret?

 

[Evey]

I wonder could he have ran through the woods and whatever else off the main road to get home and maybe taken the SUV there after briefly just to grab something? I mean how many homes could the perp do the crime and run to and drive back within the time frame? And are we thinking this dude is super calculated like Israel Keyes? Cause then I could see him tossing the phone in a way to throw cops off like mentioned. I get the feeling he's a smart perp and calculates most of his crimes but because of whatever happened he didn't have it go fully to plan. Now if he tosses the phone in the pond I even more so wonder about homes nearby but we'd notice wet cops with dive gear in that case wouldn't we? Is this an area any locals get a bad feeling at even before this crime? Like just something creepy ahlutnthe area?

 

[Kickoff61]

Are you thinking he got rid of the evidence in the opposite direction to throw off LE?
I would think he wouldn't want to keep it.
You make a good point. If the evidence was found deeper in the woods at a different location, I don't see an SUV being involved, if it was found along the road, then maybe so.

Going on the scenario of him being in town. He either kept it or got rid of it and there has been discussion with speculation LE found something. Whatever he did get rid of or possibly everything, I doubt would be disposed near his residence. A distance or opposite direction I would assume.

Just to clarify to newcomers, we don't know what LE has found or if he kept anything.

And yes, if it was a distance in the woods that an SUV cannot travel then he was on foot during this happening or went there later.

 

[Kickoff61]

I do not see this as someone from out of town who knew exactly when she would be running, or someone from out of town going to the extent of getting rid of DNA if the person is already not in the system. (Being anywhere in the state or out of state would then be very difficult to find, to go through that much risk with the fire)

I do not see this as someone passing through just coming upon her precisely at the path at the end of the guardrail seen on google map at that location, stopping, leaving vehicle with a driveway so nearby and going to this extent of things.

It appears the person knew of the path. The person knew of her running. The person was worried enough about DNA left behind to go to the extent of the fire which would indicate being closer. (worried of a DNA dragnet for instance) (That has been done some).

He may have planned things and been very calculated in his plan. As I have mentioned before, things changed with her ability to fight as she did and LE describe. That is when his plans may have spontaneously changed with the cover up and fire, but still calculated in his rush with the rest of what he did.

 

[Evey]

Hi DeDee,

Just to be clear, I do not think the scenario in writermom's post happened. For one, there would not be the "did she or did she not go to Mountainside" question, as someone in her household would have likely known she went to a store outside of Princeton. Secondly, there would be video evidence that she was there -- and I can't imagine why LE would hold that info back (though it's possible). Thirdly, while a quick store visit to anywhere is possible, I can't imagine her spending time anywhere (like at a bagel place or whatever) before her run, especially since she has Crohn's and surely had a tight schedule on Sunday. Could be wrong, of course.

I chimed in only bec I felt the response to writermom's post was not fair. And I can understand why that might have happened, given the follow-up post...

I don't know if Vanessa went to church that weekend or at all. Interesting question, though. It's never come up.

I agree fully and felt the reply she got wasn't fair and didn't think she was talking about anything bad and my reply was only to state why I didn't think someone would kill over meds not because I felt like discussing ones I've been prescribed but because I've dealt with weirdos cause of it and that I think they'd have video of her there. As for church I've wondered this also as well as I wonder if any weirdly similar crimes or odd ones happened near her New York home at all? Maybe we need to check out New York angles briefly and see if anything could point us in a direction because even if this dude is from her town(cause I believe he's a local) I'm sure he stalked her potentially in New York and wonder if anyone reported any weird things in the area she lived. Sadly that would be too hard to look into with the size of New York I assume. Whatever the case is I don't think drugs or meds is related but it's good to see people bringing up new ideas and hope she wasn't scared off. I was only confused as to why the topic came up and my only guess was cause of crohns. Not sure what they'd proscribe for that exactly since I've mainly dealt with pain issues and anxiety but am not overly familiar with crohns but would it require often doctor visits?

 

[Evey]

I wonder if the perp is so well off that he doesn't work and so was able to stalk her way more or if his only access was seeing her on weekends and maybe he just works somewhere she goes to. Do we know what places around close enough that she may go often and the perp then could see her? Besides the store that is. Like a bank or coffeee shop or food place or bar etc cause I know when my friends come to town on a weekend we normally go out and maybe other weekends she did that and perhaps the killer became obsessed via seeing her out with friends.

 

[Kickoff61]

I wonder could he have ran through the woods and whatever else off the main road to get home and maybe taken the SUV there after briefly just to grab something? I mean how many homes could the perp do the crime and run to and drive back within the time frame? And are we thinking this dude is super calculated like Israel Keyes? Cause then I could see him tossing the phone in a way to throw cops off like mentioned. I get the feeling he's a smart perp and calculates most of his crimes but because of whatever happened he didn't have it go fully to plan. Now if he tosses the phone in the pond I even more so wonder about homes nearby but we'd notice wet cops with dive gear in that case wouldn't we? Is this an area any locals get a bad feeling at even before this crime? Like just something creepy ahlutnthe area?

Yes, that possibility has been addressed before, that he could have run from the scene when his plans changed to do the fire and used the SUV from nearby for part of this. (for instance, like you say, to grab something or bring something to start the fire quickly)

In addition, it is not an intricate plan to toss evidence in another direction, *IF any evidence was tossed somewhere, it would just mean he didn't keep it to hold onto at home or bring it to his property to get rid of it where he lives.

 

[Evey]

One article I saw said they visited sex offenders in a certain mile radius and got any DNA they didn't yet have on file but this doesn't feel like it doesn't feel like the person is anyone who's been arrested but maybe should have been but wasn't ans now has a bigger ego thinking he can cabt stopped

 

[Kickoff61]

One article I saw said they visited sex offenders in a certain mile radius and got any DNA they didn't yet have on file but this doesn't feel like it doesn't feel like the person is anyone who's been arrested but maybe should have been but wasn't ans now has a bigger ego thinking he can cabt stopped

Good points. IMO this does not appear to be a first time crime. Could very well have sex offenses in the past, not caught for them or other crimes. Ego increasing with feeling above the law. I think this brazen act in broad daylight indicates a lot of that.

 

[Kickoff61]

Rocky, I agree with you that the fact that LE found some kind of evidence (which may or may not be Vanessa's phone) south of the CS does *suggests* (not a definite) that the perp did a U on BSR and escaped south. (This is IF there was a dark SUV involved, the perp was the driver and the vehicle was parked on BSR.)

DeDee provided the distance south of the CS in feet (thanks, DeDee). It's 0.07 mile, to provide additional context -- that's roughly about 2/3rds of a rather typical suburban block.

Kickoff did bring up an interesting possibility -- the perp could have purposely left the evidence in the opposite direction as the direction he fled. For some reason, I don't believe this was the case. I have nothing concrete to offer. The general consensus has been that he is arrogant. If that's accurate, I don't think he'd feel the need to make additional efforts to throw LE off. But I do think it's something we should keep in mind as a possibility.

Kickoff's mention of how deep the evidence was found in the woods potentially being very relevant was a good one. I, too, would think that it would be crazy to park his car while he went fairly deep into the woods to get rid of whatever evidence it was. Though even something solid (like a phone) wouldn't go very far if he threw it while inside the vehicle. IF this general escape scenario is accurate, my guess is that he quickly stopped the vehicle, got out next to it and threw whatever evidence it was deeper into the woods. (Assuming it was something that had a little weight; something very light wouldn't go far.) This could be done very quickly, without leaving his car unattended. Given the crime he just committed and the fact that's he likely bruised/scratched, I just can not see even the most arrogant person leaving his car unattended.

That's my two cents. Interested to hear from others.

Thanks. All I meant is that if he didn't 'keep' evidence at his home if he was nearby (as a trophy of sorts as people have mentioned), more than likely he would have disposed of it with some distance from his home or in opposite direction, either way, *but not bring it home and get rid of it close to home or on his property. That just wouldn't make sense, IMO

 

[Kickoff61]

IF an SUV is involved.

How could he have timed it precisely at the end of the guardrail where the path is on the map without following her slowly behind?

If he was sitting there already, that would increase the time of this vehicle sitting there, with a driveway nearby across the street.

Then we would be talking about sitting/waiting, attack/struggle, bringing her into trees, killing her, having means to start a fire or going back to vehicle for means to do it, then back to do that, then possibly bringing things to vehicle if he disposed of any items elsewhere, all the while vehicle is sitting there throughout as he goes back and forth for all this?

It just seems if the vehicle is involved, it is only for part of this, not throughout all of it. JMO

 

[Kickoff61]

If it was a nearby local, it would not be difficult to bring the vehicle back for some reason briefly.

And we do not know if he had the means on him to do this fire, especially if it was a spontaneous decision at that point due to the fight and unexpected DNA left behind.

Although Joshua brought up the scenario of someone dropping him off and picking him up. That is another scenario that has been speculated.

 

[DeDee]

I agree with you. That's why I brought up writer mom's post, as I feel it was unfairly treated (but surely, it was not intended).
RSBM> I just wanted my post to say, "hey, writermom, please feel free to post again."

While it's on my mind -- let me shout out to Tempura, kayaker and JEF -- all posters who interacted well w/ others and had sharp insights. I'm afraid they were likely turned off by the site due to the tone -- can't blame them. It's one big reason I joined in Sept, but didn't post until Nov. Fortunately, the tone has improved, imo.

Absolutely! We need all great sleuths on this Vanessa's murder. The bad "vibes" has lost me a time or two. Moving forward, together, with peace, great discussion, and perhaps we'll help bring some closure for her family and loved ones.

This investigation draws me in like a magnet. It is unusual for the perp to burn his victim. The fire and burning indicate an entirely higher level of dangerous killer.

 

[Rocky1]

IF an SUV is involved.

How could he have timed it precisely at the end of the guardrail where the path is on the map without following her slowly behind?

If he was sitting there already, that would increase the time of this vehicle sitting there, with a driveway nearby across the street.

Then we would be talking about sitting/waiting, attack/struggle, bringing her into trees, killing her, having means to start a fire or going back to vehicle for means to do it, then back to do that, then possibly bringing things to vehicle if he disposed of any items elsewhere, all the while vehicle is sitting there throughout as he goes back and forth for all this?

It just seems if the vehicle is involved, it is only for part of this, not throughout all of it. JMO

I agree with everything you stated.
Let's take the timeline. We do know she was killed between 1-3 pm according to LE.
We know her Aunt started looking for her around 3:45. I think if the SUV was parked along BSR when the Aunt was looking for her, she would have remembered that, and may have stopped even, to see of someone was inside to ask if they had seen VM. I would think she went north on BSR looking for her first, because that was the direction she normally ran. I would think the SUV was gone by then.
I think it's fair to say she wasn't killed at exactly 1 pm, if she left her house between 1 and 1:15. It took time to walk the 1/2 mile, and then it took time for the abduction. I may be wrong, but I am thinking she was killed/dead around 2:15 or so.
If the perp ran back to his house, using your example and got the SUV and drove back, how far away do you think he lives? I am guessing that LE canvased the area close by, and if he lives that close, they would have been in contact with him.
Do you think he built the fire after he returned? If so, that took some time. He only had about an hour and a half to go home, get the SUV and return, then build the fire, then get out of there. If he didn't build the fire when he returned, why do you think he may have gone back?

 

[Evey]

Yes, that possibility has been addressed before, that he could have run from the scene when his plans changed to do the fire and used the SUV from nearby for part of this. (for instance, like you say, to grab something or bring something to start the fire quickly)

In addition, it is not an intricate plan to toss evidence in another direction, *IF any evidence was tossed somewhere, it would just mean he didn't keep it to hold onto at home or bring it to his property to get rid of it where he lives.

My question is what home has best access for this. CAuse it could be they have a son who left for college or an Employee with access to their SUV. Cause it really doesn't seem like the perp owns it but has access.

 

[Evey]

Good points. IMO this does not appear to be a first time crime. Could very well have sex offenses in the past, not caught for them or other crimes. Ego increasing with feeling above the law. I think this brazen act in broad daylight indicates a lot of that.

My worry is he will now be so egotistical that his acts will be worse. Do we think he switches types of victim and kill method or do we think he's someone who sticks to a type?

 

[Evey]

If it was a nearby local, it would not be difficult to bring the vehicle back for some reason briefly.

And we do not know if he had the means on him to do this fire, especially if it was a spontaneous decision at that point due to the fight and unexpected DNA left behind.

Although Joshua brought up the scenario of someone dropping him off and picking him up. That is another scenario that has been speculated.

COuld he have hovered by his mail box in his car in hopes she wouldn't think about it? Cause any car with a hood up or someone standing outside it would be noticeable . I would cross the path away from the car so what if he parked and waited on the opposites side so she wouls cross away from his car and focusing on the empty car unknowingly run into his grasps?

 

[Evey]

Could he have built the fire ahead of time?

 

[Kickoff61]

I agree with everything you stated.
Let's take the timeline. We do know she was killed between 1-3 pm according to LE.
We know her Aunt started looking for her around 3:45. I think if the SUV was parked along BSR when the Aunt was looking for her, she would have remembered that, and may have stopped even, to see of someone was inside to ask if they had seen VM. I would think she went north on BSR looking for her first, because that was the direction she normally ran. I would think the SUV was gone by then.
I think it's fair to say she wasn't killed at exactly 1 pm, if she left her house between 1 and 1:15. It took time to walk the 1/2 mile, and then it took time for the abduction. I may be wrong, but I am thinking she was killed/dead around 2:15 or so.
If the perp ran back to his house, using your example and got the SUV and drove back, how far away do you think he lives? I am guessing that LE canvased the area close by, and if he lives that close, they would have been in contact with him.
Do you think he built the fire after he returned? If so, that took some time. He only had about an hour and a half to go home, get the SUV and return, then build the fire, then get out of there. If he didn't build the fire when he returned, why do you think he may have gone back?

If he left to go home and return, as a guess it would be within a mile from the scene. (Just a guess.) That would not take long to get home and drive back. It also may not take long to do the fire at all depending on what he retrieved at home and the dry conditions everyone talks about. Then take off from there. (an hour and 1/2 plenty of time for that) If he didn't build the fire when he returned, but had come back for something, I would say it would have to be something important he thought he left behind or items of hers he decided to get quickly. It is not known how far they canvassed asking for voluntary DNA or what residences in particular or if anyone declined.

 

[Kickoff61]

COuld he have hovered by his mail box in his car in hopes she wouldn't think about it? Cause any car with a hood up or someone standing outside it would be noticeable . I would cross the path away from the car so what if he parked and waited on the opposites side so she wouls cross away from his car and focusing on the empty car unknowingly run into his grasps?

I am not sure I understand your post. Are you talking about the scene location?