MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #7 *Arrest*

[Kickoff61]

In a pair of shorts with pockets??

I was wondering if he had any keys that may have fallen out he had to go back for.

 

[Evey]

Ok, I see what you mean. Yes, that is a good point too.

I mean she would be so curious and cautious over the empty car she wouldn't see him coming

 

[Evey]

I am thinking like you... she would have crossed the road if she saw a car parked.
Here's the thing. There really isn't a place to park near the path across the road without being part way in the road.
If she crossed the road, that means he would have had to cross the road, then drag her back across and into the path. He would have been seen for a long distance by a car passing, if he did that. It would have also increased the chance that VM would have seen him crossing to ambush her in her peripheral vision.
Combine that with Kickoffs post about why the SUV doesn't fit being parked there, to me, either there were two perps, (one got dropped off and waited for her) the SUV wasn't involved at all, or as kickoff said, he left on foot and came back and parked...another huge risk.
JMO, neither a torch was used, and after seeing how fast those running shoes burned, neither was an accelerant.

Edit:
Just to add. after seeing the black smoke from the running shoes burning, that explains the soot on those logs.

Couldn't he have backed into the driveway or parked a bit farther down road and then she rosses the street to the same size of the area they found her

 

[Evey]

I was wondering if he had any keys that may have fallen out he had to go back for.

Maybe a wallet cause keys he couldn't drive his SUV back likely if so

 

[Rocky1]

I agree that it is unlikely his car was parked visibly out on the road for the entire time of the crime. If there is a car involved and it was parked on the road, I feel that he was either (a) dropped off and picked up later or (b) returned to the scene in his car post-crime - in my opinion this would only be if he accidentally left something very incriminating behind such as his wallet/other identification or alternatively to destroy DNA as he is a local or (c) less likelythat the vehicle was there from the start and...he tied her to a tree, and gagged her...and then moved the vehicle home or some other place less conspicuous and returned on foot/bike with a bag and torch to (possibly) rape and kill her.

Going by the TOD between 1-3 pm, using scenario "B", he would have had enough time if he lives fairly close, because he could have been there beyond 3 pm, but using scenario "C" gives him less time, because he would have had to ambush her, tie her up etc, then go home and back, rape, (if he did) kill and burn all after 1:15 and before 3 pm.
Still time maybe, but not much.

 

[Rocky1]

Couldn't he have backed into the driveway or parked a bit farther down road and then she rosses the street to the same size of the area they found her

I guess anything is possible, but I doubt either.
If he backed into the driveway blocking it, the car may have got towed, and he's busted.
If he parked down the road, more people would have seen him walking. I'm not so sure he'd take that chance, but then again, he took some big chances anyway.

 

[Rocky1]

It also seems like someone out of town taking evidence with him, taking off, would take it out of town somewhere. Yet someone in town taking evidence would want to dispose of it quickly without bringing it home. JMO (*unless the person was keeping something for some kind of trophy as people mentioned).

I agree.
If he doesn't live close by, then we are back to how did he know her route , and when she'd be out running etc.
The only way I see him living any distance away is if this was a random act and the perp didn't know who she was at all.
I don't see much of a "Trophy" left to take, myself. I think the missing shoe was burned, along with her clothing, and I think he threw the phone and that was what LE was looking for with the metal detectors.

 

[ForensicMass]

I guess anything is possible, but I doubt either.
If he backed into the driveway blocking it, the car may have got towed, and he's busted.
If he parked down the road, more people would have seen him walking. I'm not so sure he'd take that chance, but then again, he took some big chances anyway.

To me it's clear that his car was parked very near to the path based on police interest in the vehicle and the complications associated with every other possible alternative some of which you just described. And I can think of only two reasons that his car would be parked on the side of BSr on the shoulder 1- pulling over and faking a breakdown or pretending to be looking for directions etc. was a part of the ruse from the start or 2 he was seizing an opportunity to try to attack and things went south forcing him to leave the car along the road for some period of time.

 

[ForensicMass]

I agree.
If he doesn't live close by, then we are back to how did he know her route , and when she'd be out running etc.
The only way I see him living any distance away is if this was a random act and the perp didn't know who she was at all.
I don't see much of a "Trophy" left to take, myself. I think the missing shoe was burned, along with her clothing, and I think he threw the phone and that was what LE was looking for with the metal detectors.

It is definitely what they were looking for with the metal detectors among other possible evidences. I am completely Unconvinced that the phone was left at the scene. It's pretty difficult to throw a phone without leaving any fingerprints on it. Additionally unless you chase it downyou don't know how it lands how visible it might be etc. I'm a cover-up perspective it would make far more sense to me to remove it from the scene and completely and utterly destroy it so that it could not be recognized as even a phone. If it was thrown by the perp I strongly believe it was thrown at some distance from the scene, possibly out the window of the vehicle and possibly into a body of water and not at that location

 

[Rocky1]

To me it's clear that his car was parked very near to the path based on police interest in the vehicle and the complications associated with every other possible alternative some of which you just described. And I can think of only two reasons that his car would be parked on the side of BSr on the shoulder 1- pulling over and faking a breakdown or pretending to be looking for directions etc. was a part of the ruse from the start or 2 he was seizing an opportunity to try to attack and things went south forcing him to leave the car along the road for some period of time.

Ok, so you are not thinking there may have been 2 perps and one was dropped off, and picked up later?
If not, then that means the SUV was parked along BSR for at least 40 minutes.
My theory, being he is a sexual sadist tells me closer to an hour, or more.
If he's not a sexual sadist, and VM was not sexually assaulted, I don't see why LE was checking out every registered sex offender in the area. If he sexually assaulted her and enjoys inflicting pain, he spent some time with her before he murdered her.

 

[Kickoff61]

Vehicle being there 40 minutes or more while all this entirely happening is far more risky than quickly part of the time. Imo

 

[Kickoff61]

Even more disturbing..it seeming that he wanted the community to see exactly what he did...knowing she would be found there as she was. I would think something new would or should be coming forth on this.

 

[Joshua M]

Vehicle being there 40 minutes or more while all this entirely happening is far more risky than quickly part of the time. Imo

Very risky indeed.

I go back to what one of the locals said on here some weeks back about traffic on BSR. Although from the pictures, it looks like a sleepy back-road with minimal traffic, the local on here stated that he's driven on the road six or more times since the murder (including on a Sunday) and a few cars were on it each time. If we take that at face-value, and the perpetrator was there for at least 30 minutes, that's upwards of 100 cars that would have seen the SUV (maybe even more as Sunday was a church day).

If that was the case, wouldn't we have more positive sightings of it passed onto law enforcement (and therefore law enforcement would have released this lead/tip in the weeks after the murder) and wouldn't at least a few of the witnesses been able to name the SUV's colour? Instead all we have is a tip released four months after the murder, describing the vehicle as a 'dark SUV'. I just think if it was parked there for 30 minutes, the sightings would be higher in number (and therefore the lead/tip released earlier) and the description of the vehicle would be much more specific.

 

[Rocky1]

Very risky indeed.

I go back to what one of the locals said on here some weeks back about traffic on BSR. Although from the pictures, it looks like a sleepy back-road with minimal traffic, the local on here stated that he's driven on the road six or more times since the murder (including on a Sunday) and a few cars were on it each time. If we take that at face-value, and the perpetrator was there for at least 30 minutes, that's upwards of 100 cars that would have seen the SUV (maybe even more as Sunday was a church day).

If that was the case, wouldn't we have more positive sightings of it passed onto law enforcement (and therefore law enforcement would have released this lead/tip in the weeks after the murder) and wouldn't at least a few of the witnesses been able to name the SUV's colour? Instead all we have is a tip released four months after the murder, describing the vehicle as a 'dark SUV'. I just think if it was parked there for 30 minutes, the sightings would be higher in number (and therefore the lead/tip released earlier) and the description of the vehicle would be much more specific.

I am the local that drove on BSR at least six times. There has not been not one time that when I either looked through the windshield, or the mirror, I didn't see a car. Yes, on a Sunday too.
If you look at Google Maps, and start at the beginning of BSR at Ball Hill Rd, you will count 8 vehicles from that point to the end of Boylston Ave. (BSR turns into Boylston Ave)
If you pause traveling north at 35 Boylston Ave, you will see the sun. It looks to be around 4 Oclock in the afternoon. Total distance I am guessing is 2 miles and 8 vehicles.
I agree. If that tip was so strong LE would have known the color, and wouldn't have waited over 3 months to get it out to the public.
I think they mentioned the SUV only because the pressure was on, they want the public to think they are still hard at work on this case, and that's all they have. I think it's fair to say, although they haven't forgot about this case, they are no longer "working around the clock."
The family asked LE to announce the press conference just before Christmas, and they wouldn't participate in any way. Why do you think? Think the media would be asking what they have and they wouldn't have any answers?

 

[Kickoff61]

Good points Joshua.

 

[Kickoff61]

Very risky indeed.

I go back to what one of the locals said on here some weeks back about traffic on BSR. Although from the pictures, it looks like a sleepy back-road with minimal traffic, the local on here stated that he's driven on the road six or more times since the murder (including on a Sunday) and a few cars were on it each time. If we take that at face-value, and the perpetrator was there for at least 30 minutes, that's upwards of 100 cars that would have seen the SUV (maybe even more as Sunday was a church day).

If that was the case, wouldn't we have more positive sightings of it passed onto law enforcement (and therefore law enforcement would have released this lead/tip in the weeks after the murder) and wouldn't at least a few of the witnesses been able to name the SUV's colour? Instead all we have is a tip released four months after the murder, describing the vehicle as a 'dark SUV'. I just think if it was parked there for 30 minutes, the sightings would be higher in number (and therefore the lead/tip released earlier) and the description of the vehicle would be much more specific.

Exactly

 

[Evey]

Going by the TOD between 1-3 pm, using scenario "B", he would have had enough time if he lives fairly close, because he could have been there beyond 3 pm, but using scenario "C" gives him less time, because he would have had to ambush her, tie her up etc, then go home and back, rape, (if he did) kill and burn all after 1:15 and before 3 pm.
Still time maybe, but not much.

Maybe we need to figure out whar thw garthest possible radius would be for how far the killer works or lives. I'm betting he lives close even more so with how much time it seems he spent

 

[ForensicMass]

Ok, so you are not thinking there may have been 2 perps and one was dropped off, and picked up later?
If not, then that means the SUV was parked along BSR for at least 40 minutes.
My theory, being he is a sexual sadist tells me closer to an hour, or more.
If he's not a sexual sadist, and VM was not sexually assaulted, I don't see why LE was checking out every registered sex offender in the area. If he sexually assaulted her and enjoys inflicting pain, he spent some time with her before he murdered her.

Bring up a good point the possibility of two perpetrators does exist and would negate my previous theory. I still don't agree with the 40 minutes timeframe of the crime though this crime could've occurred in 10 to 15 minutes in my opinion. Just because this crime may have been sexually motivated doesn't mean she was actually sexually assaulted. It could be that the perpetrator killed her before he could assault her. In which case sex offenders would still be of interest to the police

 

[ForensicMass]

Very risky indeed.

I go back to what one of the locals said on here some weeks back about traffic on BSR. Although from the pictures, it looks like a sleepy back-road with minimal traffic, the local on here stated that he's driven on the road six or more times since the murder (including on a Sunday) and a few cars were on it each time. If we take that at face-value, and the perpetrator was there for at least 30 minutes, that's upwards of 100 cars that would have seen the SUV (maybe even more as Sunday was a church day).

If that was the case, wouldn't we have more positive sightings of it passed onto law enforcement (and therefore law enforcement would have released this lead/tip in the weeks after the murder) and wouldn't at least a few of the witnesses been able to name the SUV's colour? Instead all we have is a tip released four months after the murder, describing the vehicle as a 'dark SUV'. I just think if it was parked there for 30 minutes, the sightings would be higher in number (and therefore the lead/tip released earlier) and the description of the vehicle would be much more specific.

In general this is very good rationale for questioning why the SUV tip is not more solid and was not released earlier. I do think 100 cars in a 30 minute period Could be a great over estimation though. I am not discounting the experiences of other locals that have driven this road but I can offer my own which I would think is also valid. When I visited the crime scene about a month ago on a Friday at around the same time this crime occurred I only noted about a half a dozen cars passing in approximately 15 to 20 minutes time. It is possible that far fewer than 100 cars drove past the scene in a 30 minute window perhaps only 25. Granted this crime occurred on a Sunday and the church traffic could increase the average. Outside of the church though I would expect less traffic on a Sundayafternoon than on a Friday. But I will still stand with your point that if 25 cars drove by someone should have been able to remember the color of this SUV. This brings me to another point. we could have multiple witnesses seeing the SUV and reporting it as two or more different colors due to witness error. if that is the case then law enforcement could not be certain which witness is describing the color accurately and therefore they can only say with certainty that it was a dark color.

 

[Kickoff61]

It doesn't make sense he would wait for her at the path (extending time for vehicle to be there) with driveway so close across the street.