Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #15

[Dlk79]

I guess that if you put a metal tool from outside like a small screwdriver you can lift it enough to grab it and lift the rest you. That would explain those thumb prints in the middle on the outside as he likely had thumbs in that position when using tool.

Any flat tool would do, a credit card even. Wouldn't leave any mark. Depending on the actual shape at the bottom and the "give" in the shutter, might even be possible to lift with just your fingertips.

 

[redplanet]

Just a question. No one knows for sure if doors were closed or open. But let me know if you use to leave doors open (including on latch) when you take holidays? I spent some time in a hotel recently and I always made sure balcony and room's doors were locked before leaving room. If he entered though windows, and he probably did, then he left though them. If not for any other reason at least for the sake of time sparing. Also, windows are 91cm from floor, something quite easy for a 180cm guy to pass though both ways even with a small child.

Here I would like to know where was the key for the door which faces the car park, during the meal. I believe only one key was provided.

 

[Newthoughts]

I have only checked into this briefly and I believe there are some similar disadvantages in terms of not disclosing key matters you intend to rely on later

My understanding is that currently, CB is free to decline to speak with police in an interview. This tends to be the blanket advice to any suspect as the risk is you enable the police to go on a fishing expedition.

If he was actually arrested on suspicion/charged - i believe he can be compelled to give an interview, but then can chose not to say anything.

From the defence point of view it makes no sense to give an interview without knowing what the evidence against him is.

I think this is broadly similar to the UK where you cannot ambush the accused in an interview based on secret evidence you hold.

I'm guessing they can't properly question him until they arrest him on suspicion? Tho they can as a witness.

I was under the impression that evidence held by LE didn't have to be disclosed at arrest on suspicion? I thought they could keep that to themselves up to the point they actually charged him? Only after charging do they have to give up their evidence to the defence. So they could drip drip info in initial.

I think that's the case in the UK. The other complicating factor in the UK is there is a limited time you can hold and question someone you've arrested before you have to either charge them or let them go. Is this also the case in Germany? At the moment they have the luxury of him being in prison for other crimes. If he wins their hands would be forced.

 

[MENDEL]

Any flat tool would do, a credit card even. Wouldn't leave any mark. Depending on the actual shape at the bottom and the "give" in the shutter, might even be possible to lift with just your fingertips.

Sure. So if he used a credit card, door was locked as he had to use window. Perhaps you could offer a small video lifting shutters with fingers not forgetting to leave thumbs prints in the middle to be convincing.

 

[MENDEL]

Here I would like to know where was the key for the door which faces the car park, during the meal. I believe only one key was provided.

Perhaps in someone's pocket I guess...

 

[Dlk79]

DLK, it would be quite unusual to have doors unlocked on holidays. Anyway a window was used almost for sure and so doors weren't used whatever their status IMO.

Unusual or not, it's a fact the McCann's left the patio door unlocked. They have acknowledged this. And GM stated the front door was also 'probably' unlocked. It's all in the PJ files.

Not saying that's how I think the intruder entered or exited, just think there are a lot of possibilities that can't be ruled out.

 

[redplanet]

Any flat tool would do, a credit card even. Wouldn't leave any mark. Depending on the actual shape at the bottom and the "give" in the shutter, might even be possible to lift with just your fingertips.

I think somewhere there may be a fuller version of the 2nd (quieter) shutter opening video I linked to, which includes how to start raising it.

 

[MENDEL]

Unusual or not, it's a fact the McCann's left the patio door unlocked. They have acknowledged this. And GM stated the front door was also 'probably' unlocked. It's all in the PJ files.

Not saying that's how I think the intruder entered or exited, just think there are a lot of possibilities that can't be ruled out.

DLK there are possibilities indeed. And there are facts too. Facts are window was used.

 

[tedtink]

I think when MM said “why didn’t you come when me and Sean were crying” to her parents is when CB may have tried to burgle the house, he might have woken MM panicked and ran (like he did when the young girls caught him doing a sex act in the room they were sleeping) MM may have been crying for her mum or dad so CB expected her parents to be there. Or he went in and then one of the T7 came back. I think he realised they were alone for certain periods of time and tried his luck the next night and changed his plans for from burglary to abduction.

If the door was unlocked from the inside though she could have been lured out hence why there was no evidence of abduction.

Sure it's a possibility.

MM could have thought that the noises coming from an adjacent room the night before were in fact the parents.
That could be why she asked 'why didn't you come'?
Most children crying would be attended by their parents if close by and perhaps that's why MM asked them?

 

[redplanet]

Any flat tool would do, a credit card even. Wouldn't leave any mark. Depending on the actual shape at the bottom and the "give" in the shutter, might even be possible to lift with just your fingertips.

Here is the real 5A shutter, it looks like at start the shutter is in fully closed status? See first (noisy) shutter-opening video I linked to.

 

[Newthoughts]

I know.. I asked it before (in general) but do you think it was an easy slip / way out, with a 3/4 yr old child, size of Madeline?
I mean... the window looks kinda small imo so it would have been difficult if this was a 1 person act? If he had someone on the look out,he could have been warned/signaled that one of the T7 came to check (and heard that noise,without checking?) And handed her over to another person from outside the window...

I don't think so. I think climbing out of a window carrying a child would be nigh on impossible to do discreetly and without waking her

So I think either he entered that way a left via a door or used it to check the coast was clear before using the front door or taking her. Just my opinion - the window has always confused me

The front door looks to be the best and most obvious exit point once he was in if it had the sorts of locks that can be opened without a key.

I'm pretty sure fire regs would require some doors must be openable from inside without a key? To allow escape. It's people getting in that you want to stop after all.

 

[Dlk79]

DLK there are possibilities indeed. And there are facts too. Facts are window was used.

No, facts are the window was open. Doesn't necessarily mean it was used to enter or exit IMO. It could have just been used by the intruder to check outside the apartment before exiting through the front door for example. Or deliberately opened as a diversion, perhaps to cover that they had obtained a key to the front door from someone at the Ocean club. Just saying there are other possibilities. JMO.

 

[MENDEL]

Here is the real 5A shutter, it looks like at start the shutter is in fully closed status? See first (noisy) shutter-opening video I linked to.

Can you link that again, Red? In the video I saw can't tell shutters are closed and window was open under no possible discussion.

 

[Newthoughts]

I think when MM said “why didn’t you come when me and Sean were crying” to her parents is when CB may have tried to burgle the house, he might have woken MM panicked and ran (like he did when the young girls caught him doing a sex act in the room they were sleeping) MM may have been crying for her mum or dad so CB expected her parents to be there. Or he went in and then one of the T7 came back. I think he realised they were alone for certain periods of time and tried his luck the next night and changed his plans for from burglary to abduction.

If the door was unlocked from the inside though she could have been lured out hence why there was no evidence of abduction.

In addition to MM making that comment there is the witness statement from the lady above who claims she heard a child crying for an hour two days before on the 1st. That coupled with KMs comment that they've taken her rather than somebody has taken her - made me think he was scoping the place - just my opinion.

Bear in mind children are vague on times and say things when they come into their heads rather than when relevant. MM could be referring to two nights ago.

Also bear in mind children imagine things like monster in the wardrobe and wake having nightmares which all parent dismiss and it's possible MM may have claimed she'd had a nightmare or seen someone

My opinions only but I think those things could signify him checking the place out on a previous night but was disturbed by MM waking.

My opinion is MM was the target because he was a monster. But that's only my opinion. I don't think it was a burglary

 

[Ausgrlz]

I think I read that neighbors had complained about the box factory site due to what you mention above.

I also remember the environmental pollution being mentioned but can no longer find a link readily.

Also for those discussing the dog hairs, this may be of interest:
“They previously refused to release a series of hairs found in the apartment to detectives from Scotland Yard”
Maddie McCann investigators want to trace movements in Spain of Winnebago motor home German suspect Christian Brueckner owned - Olive Press News Spain

With regards to the stole to order/burglary gone wrong scenarios I think he saw MM at the beach:
“By this time Brueckner is thought to have been living in a rented whitewashed villa on a remote hillside – above the beach where the McCanns played during their week's holiday.”
“The single-storey property is surrounded by disused water wells and sits on a hillside which leads on to a footpath to the beach where the little girl played.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8391315/amp/Police-link-jailed-paedophile-abduction-girl-aged-five-2015.html

 

[Dlk79]

I also remember the environmental pollution being mentioned but can no longer find a link readily.

Also for those discussing the dog hairs, this may be of interest:
“They previously refused to release a series of hairs found in the apartment to detectives from Scotland Yard”
Maddie McCann investigators want to trace movements in Spain of Winnebago motor home German suspect Christian Brueckner owned - Olive Press News Spain

With regards to the stole to order/burglary gone wrong scenarios I think he saw MM at the beach:
“By this time Brueckner is thought to have been living in a rented whitewashed villa on a remote hillside – above the beach where the McCanns played during their week's holiday.”
“The single-storey property is surrounded by disused water wells and sits on a hillside which leads on to a footpath to the beach where the little girl played.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8391315/amp/Police-link-jailed-paedophile-abduction-girl-aged-five-2015.html

They are talking about the farmhouse in PDL. He had already vacated it in 2006 so wasn't living there at the time of MM.

 

[Ausgrlz]

They are talking about the farmhouse in PDL. He had already vacated it in 2006 so wasn't living there at the time of MM.

My understanding is that there is some conjecture around these timelines

 

[worldwatcher]

They are talking about the farmhouse in PDL. He had already vacated it in 2006 so wasn't living there at the time of MM.

I really thought,it was in Germany. Could also been that my mind is playing tricks on me..Idk,cant find it..anymore!

 

[MENDEL]

Here is the real 5A shutter, it looks like at start the shutter is in fully closed status? See first (noisy) shutter-opening video I linked to.

This is the first time you see shutters in video @1.21". How can you tell they're closed? Then he simply slides an open window.

 

[SuperdadV8]

I really thought,it was in Germany. Could also been that my mind is playing tricks on me..Idk,cant find it..anymore!

That was Neuwegersleben, due to the huge amounts of waste at his property. I remember that too.