Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #15

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Miss_Paula said:
Will the prime suspect be released from prison soon?

My attempt to explain german law

Next Thursday, the appeal of the suspect Christian B. will be heard before the European Court of Justice. This will decide whether the suspect is likely to be released soon.

I have noticed in the English press that there is often confusion about the current legal situation regarding Christian B.

I would therefore like to briefly explain the situation to you:
(now there is a lot to read, sorry - the context is very complex)

1) Christian B. is currently serving a sentence (1 year 9 months) in prison for drug trafficking (convicted in 2011). Two thirds of this sentence was served in June 2020, so that he can apply for early release under German law. (He did so, then withdrew it and immediately afterwards resubmitted it last week. I can explain details on request).

2) In December 2019, he was convicted to seven years' imprisonment for raping the then 72-year-old American woman in Praia da Luz in 2005 - on the basis of his place of residence and his registration address in 2019, the court in Braunschweig had jurisdiction.

His lawyers appealed against this sentence - for a somewhat complicated reason. In order to explain this, I have to go back:

a) The 2011 drug trafficking court judgment was suspended on parole.
b) In June 2017, Christian B. was arrested in Portugal with a European arrest warrant and extradited to Germany. The reason for this was the execution of a sentence for sexual abuse of a child in Braunschweig. He served the sentence.
c) As a result of this sentence, the parole - i.e. the suspension of imprisonment - from the 2011 drug sentence was cancelled - he was to serve the 21 months accordingly.
d) He escaped this new imprisonment by fleeing to Italy - where he was arrested again in September 2018 and transferred to Germany. This was followed by his re-arrest, for which he has been serving his sentence ever since (1).

During this imprisonment the rape trial and conviction took place last December (2).

Reasons for appeal:

Christian B's lawyers are of the opinion that Germany should not have brought him to court at all, because the original extradition in 2017 from Portugal was exclusively related to the execution of the sentence for child abuse (b).

The basis of this legal position is the so-called European 'Speciality Principle'. According to this, "a person transferred by a Member State on the basis of an European arrest warrant may not be prosecuted or sentenced or subjected to any measure involving deprivation of liberty for an offence other than that for which the accused was made prior”.

In fact, this is a legally serious reason and an extremely difficult matter. In April 2020, the Federal Court of Justice (the highest judicial instance in Germany) responsible for such cases dealt with the appeal. Its Federal Prosecutor General then referred the question for a preliminary ruling to the European Court of Justice based in Luxembourg, the supreme court of the European Union.

And there, on Thursday, 6 August from 9.30 a.m. CEST, it is now to be heard and decided whether Germany was allowed to bring the accused to trial and sentence him at all.

Here in Germany, of course, many people are eagerly awaiting the outcome, especially because it is not clear to a layman (as me) why a German citizen should not be sentenced by a court of law in this country.

As soon as I know the outcome of the trial in Luxembourg, I will report to you here in the forum. And I hope with this paper I have given you a little argumentation help when you discuss it with friends afterwards.

Greetings from the North Sea coast
Paula

(Excuse my poor English)
Click to expand...
Very well explained, thank you Paula. And your English is better than many English people on here.
 
Miss_Paula said:
Will the prime suspect be released from prison soon?

My attempt to explain german law

Next Thursday, the appeal of the suspect Christian B. will be heard before the European Court of Justice. This will decide whether the suspect is likely to be released soon.

I have noticed in the English press that there is often confusion about the current legal situation regarding Christian B.

I would therefore like to briefly explain the situation to you:
(now there is a lot to read, sorry - the context is very complex)

1) Christian B. is currently serving a sentence (1 year 9 months) in prison for drug trafficking (convicted in 2011). Two thirds of this sentence was served in June 2020, so that he can apply for early release under German law. (He did so, then withdrew it and immediately afterwards resubmitted it last week. I can explain details on request).

2) In December 2019, he was convicted to seven years' imprisonment for raping the then 72-year-old American woman in Praia da Luz in 2005 - on the basis of his place of residence and his registration address in 2019, the court in Braunschweig had jurisdiction.

His lawyers appealed against this sentence - for a somewhat complicated reason. In order to explain this, I have to go back:

a) The 2011 drug trafficking court judgment was suspended on parole.
b) In June 2017, Christian B. was arrested in Portugal with a European arrest warrant and extradited to Germany. The reason for this was the execution of a sentence for sexual abuse of a child in Braunschweig. He served the sentence.
c) As a result of this sentence, the parole - i.e. the suspension of imprisonment - from the 2011 drug sentence was cancelled - he was to serve the 21 months accordingly.
d) He escaped this new imprisonment by fleeing to Italy - where he was arrested again in September 2018 and transferred to Germany. This was followed by his re-arrest, for which he has been serving his sentence ever since (1).

During this imprisonment the rape trial and conviction took place last December (2).

Reasons for appeal:

Christian B's lawyers are of the opinion that Germany should not have brought him to court at all, because the original extradition in 2017 from Portugal was exclusively related to the execution of the sentence for child abuse (b).

The basis of this legal position is the so-called European 'Speciality Principle'. According to this, "a person transferred by a Member State on the basis of an European arrest warrant may not be prosecuted or sentenced or subjected to any measure involving deprivation of liberty for an offence other than that for which the accused was made prior”.

In fact, this is a legally serious reason and an extremely difficult matter. In April 2020, the Federal Court of Justice (the highest judicial instance in Germany) responsible for such cases dealt with the appeal. Its Federal Prosecutor General then referred the question for a preliminary ruling to the European Court of Justice based in Luxembourg, the supreme court of the European Union.

And there, on Thursday, 6 August from 9.30 a.m. CEST, it is now to be heard and decided whether Germany was allowed to bring the accused to trial and sentence him at all.

Here in Germany, of course, many people are eagerly awaiting the outcome, especially because it is not clear to a layman (as me) why a German citizen should not be sentenced by a court of law in this country.

As soon as I know the outcome of the trial in Luxembourg, I will report to you here in the forum. And I hope with this paper I have given you a little argumentation help when you discuss it with friends afterwards.

Greetings from the North Sea coast
Paula

(Excuse my poor English)

The decision of the Federal Court, 21. April 2020 (in German)
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/showPd...e&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=12079248
Click to expand...

Not nearly that poor as my english will always be!;)
 
Monic said:
Hi I am new here, and my English is not so good..

About the dogs, in the beginning Pj's used rescue dogs, finding missing people.

Later end of July the cadaver and blood surch dogs came from England. These dogs surch the apartment's and the car.

In the time between, other tourists stayed in the apartments.
It took 3 months, that the real dogs could do their jobs
Click to expand...

Your English is just perfect. I couldn't write it any better. Hope you'll keep sharing.
 
Last edited:
Hellyl said:
I'm still trying to figure out how CB's lawyer can sit and state his client will NEVER co-operate with prosecutor, especially given the fact he hasn't yet been questioned/charged, nobody knows what evidence (if any) has been uncovered to prove him guily or innocent. Surely any lawyer whose client is to be innocent until proven guilty would be very eager to propose that "innocence" by saying "of course my client will do ANYTHING/answer any questions etc if will help to solve this/clear his name and so let the search continue for whoever did this etc"? It just seems like a stand-off before anything has even begun.
Click to expand...

Whether CB is guilty in the McCann case, I do not know - like none of us. And that's why the presumption of innocence applies. A great good of democracy. But with other, proven crimes - theft, rape, child abuse, drug trafficking - he has been roaming Europe for over twenty years. That's why the lawyer's arrogant behaviour doesn't go down well. CB ought to be slightly more penitent.
 
Miss_Paula said:
Will the prime suspect be released from prison soon?

My attempt to explain german law

Next Thursday, the appeal of the suspect Christian B. will be heard before the European Court of Justice. This will decide whether the suspect is likely to be released soon.

I have noticed in the English press that there is often confusion about the current legal situation regarding Christian B.

I would therefore like to briefly explain the situation to you:
(now there is a lot to read, sorry - the context is very complex)

1) Christian B. is currently serving a sentence (1 year 9 months) in prison for drug trafficking (convicted in 2011). Two thirds of this sentence was served in June 2020, so that he can apply for early release under German law. (He did so, then withdrew it and immediately afterwards resubmitted it last week. I can explain details on request).

2) In December 2019, he was convicted to seven years' imprisonment for raping the then 72-year-old American woman in Praia da Luz in 2005 - on the basis of his place of residence and his registration address in 2019, the court in Braunschweig had jurisdiction.

His lawyers appealed against this sentence - for a somewhat complicated reason. In order to explain this, I have to go back:

a) The 2011 drug trafficking court judgment was suspended on parole.
b) In June 2017, Christian B. was arrested in Portugal with a European arrest warrant and extradited to Germany. The reason for this was the execution of a sentence for sexual abuse of a child in Braunschweig. He served the sentence.
c) As a result of this sentence, the parole - i.e. the suspension of imprisonment - from the 2011 drug sentence was cancelled - he was to serve the 21 months accordingly.
d) He escaped this new imprisonment by fleeing to Italy - where he was arrested again in September 2018 and transferred to Germany. This was followed by his re-arrest, for which he has been serving his sentence ever since (1).

During this imprisonment the rape trial and conviction took place last December (2).

Reasons for appeal:

Christian B's lawyers are of the opinion that Germany should not have brought him to court at all, because the original extradition in 2017 from Portugal was exclusively related to the execution of the sentence for child abuse (b).

The basis of this legal position is the so-called European 'Speciality Principle'. According to this, "a person transferred by a Member State on the basis of an European arrest warrant may not be prosecuted or sentenced or subjected to any measure involving deprivation of liberty for an offence other than that for which the accused was made prior”.

In fact, this is a legally serious reason and an extremely difficult matter. In April 2020, the Federal Court of Justice (the highest judicial instance in Germany) responsible for such cases dealt with the appeal. Its Federal Prosecutor General then referred the question for a preliminary ruling to the European Court of Justice based in Luxembourg, the supreme court of the European Union.

And there, on Thursday, 6 August from 9.30 a.m. CEST, it is now to be heard and decided whether Germany was allowed to bring the accused to trial and sentence him at all.

Here in Germany, of course, many people are eagerly awaiting the outcome, especially because it is not clear to a layman (as me) why a German citizen should not be sentenced by a court of law in this country.

As soon as I know the outcome of the trial in Luxembourg, I will report to you here in the forum. And I hope with this paper I have given you a little argumentation help when you discuss it with friends afterwards.

Greetings from the North Sea coast
Paula

(Excuse my poor English)

The decision of the Federal Court, 21. April 2020 (in German)
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/showPd...e&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=12079248
Click to expand...

Thanks for this!

I get the underlying policy rationale that you can't extradite someone under one matter, only to prosecute them for something completely different.

But in this case he was extradited to serve a sentence which further triggered cancellation of parole.

So it would seem odd that you can't then bring a new prosecution, while the person is in prison, or in jurisdiction, due to a valid extradition?

It is not like Germany did bait and switch here.
 
Can't add quote for some reason, but replying to above link re Claudia case. I found it interesting that at the beginning of that investigation the prosecution said there was "no concrete evidence" he was involved but qas a suspect anyway, whereas in MM case they said they "have concrete evidence". Even more reassuring with regard to MM case IMO
 
Miss_Paula said:
Will the prime suspect be released from prison soon?

My attempt to explain german law

Next Thursday, the appeal of the suspect Christian B. will be heard before the European Court of Justice. This will decide whether the suspect is likely to be released soon.

I have noticed in the English press that there is often confusion about the current legal situation regarding Christian B.

I would therefore like to briefly explain the situation to you:
(now there is a lot to read, sorry - the context is very complex)

1) Christian B. is currently serving a sentence (1 year 9 months) in prison for drug trafficking (convicted in 2011). Two thirds of this sentence was served in June 2020, so that he can apply for early release under German law. (He did so, then withdrew it and immediately afterwards resubmitted it last week. I can explain details on request).

2) In December 2019, he was convicted to seven years' imprisonment for raping the then 72-year-old American woman in Praia da Luz in 2005 - on the basis of his place of residence and his registration address in 2019, the court in Braunschweig had jurisdiction.

His lawyers appealed against this sentence - for a somewhat complicated reason. In order to explain this, I have to go back:

a) The 2011 drug trafficking court judgment was suspended on parole.
b) In June 2017, Christian B. was arrested in Portugal with a European arrest warrant and extradited to Germany. The reason for this was the execution of a sentence for sexual abuse of a child in Braunschweig. He served the sentence.
c) As a result of this sentence, the parole - i.e. the suspension of imprisonment - from the 2011 drug sentence was cancelled - he was to serve the 21 months accordingly.
d) He escaped this new imprisonment by fleeing to Italy - where he was arrested again in September 2018 and transferred to Germany. This was followed by his re-arrest, for which he has been serving his sentence ever since (1).

During this imprisonment the rape trial and conviction took place last December (2).

Reasons for appeal:

Christian B's lawyers are of the opinion that Germany should not have brought him to court at all, because the original extradition in 2017 from Portugal was exclusively related to the execution of the sentence for child abuse (b).

The basis of this legal position is the so-called European 'Speciality Principle'. According to this, "a person transferred by a Member State on the basis of an European arrest warrant may not be prosecuted or sentenced or subjected to any measure involving deprivation of liberty for an offence other than that for which the accused was made prior”.

In fact, this is a legally serious reason and an extremely difficult matter. In April 2020, the Federal Court of Justice (the highest judicial instance in Germany) responsible for such cases dealt with the appeal. Its Federal Prosecutor General then referred the question for a preliminary ruling to the European Court of Justice based in Luxembourg, the supreme court of the European Union.

And there, on Thursday, 6 August from 9.30 a.m. CEST, it is now to be heard and decided whether Germany was allowed to bring the accused to trial and sentence him at all.

Here in Germany, of course, many people are eagerly awaiting the outcome, especially because it is not clear to a layman (as me) why a German citizen should not be sentenced by a court of law in this country.

As soon as I know the outcome of the trial in Luxembourg, I will report to you here in the forum. And I hope with this paper I have given you a little argumentation help when you discuss it with friends afterwards.

Greetings from the North Sea coast
Paula

(Excuse my poor English)

The decision of the Federal Court, 21. April 2020 (in German)
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/showPd...e&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=12079248
Click to expand...
Your English is brilliantly clear. Very good breakdown of a really complicated law?

Thanks for that. I now think I understand the principle behind the appeal. I wonder when they actually charged him with the rape of the 72 year old and whether there would be a get out there.

If I understand correctly the the extradition to the country for the child abuse charges was legally correct BUT then led to a earlier prior parole for drugs being rescinded meaning that full sentence now had to be served?

So he escapes this and is rearrested in Italy and extradited back into the country to serve that extra sentence for drugs on a new extradition request?

But because that sentence was for a crime prior to the original extradition it is deemed illegal for the reasons you've listed?

However in the meantime he has been charged and convicted by Germany, whilst in Germany so no need for extradition, with the rape. But, as I understand it he is claiming this charge and conviction are illegal as his extradition to Germany to serve the drugs charge was illegal. Have I understood that correctly?

So there are several confusing issues.

Firstly he had already been charged and sentenced for the drugs before the first extradition. Was this something like the UK suspended sentence - i.e. say you get two years suspended sentence - it means you only serve that two years IF you commit another crime in that period?

If yes anf the child abuse charge meant he then had to serve this sentence Surely this is not technically a charge outside the extradition but a consequence of commiting the new crime for which he'd been extradited?

Secondly the rape charge, even if made during an illegal sentence, could still be allowed to stand? Hopefully.

If he does win - surely Portugal could then extradite him to be charged and convicted of the rape there

I can see why German LE might be worried. But if it's like the UK you have to go thru every court before you get to the European courts and I believe they rarely go against national courts

This is a really clever ploy and I'd guess expensive. Just how is he affording not just a legal team capable of putting it together but also covering the expense of dragging it thru successive courts. That can't be cheap
 
mrjitty said:
Thanks for this!

I get the underlying policy rationale that you can't extradite someone under one matter, only to prosecute them for something completely different.

But in this case he was extradited to serve a sentence which further triggered cancellation of parole.

So it would seem odd that you can't then bring a new prosecution, while the person is in prison, or in jurisdiction, due to a valid extradition?

It is not like Germany did bait and switch here.
Click to expand...
Many people here in Germany see it the same way, not only laymen, but also lawyers.

The Braunschweig trial went otherwise legally faultless. Only afterwards the lawyer pulled the "trick" like a rabbit out of his hat.

This could have been raised as an objection before the trial began.

The Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) has often given "strange" judgments. Even lawyers I've asked about their prediction for Thursday say it's 50-50. Unbelievable!
 
Miss_Paula said:
Whether CB is guilty in the McCann case, I do not know - like none of us. And that's why the presumption of innocence applies. A great good of democracy. But with other, proven crimes - theft, rape, child abuse, drug trafficking - he has been roaming Europe for over twenty years. That's why the lawyer's arrogant behaviour doesn't go down well. CB ought to be slightly more penitent.
Click to expand...

My thoughts too and also first time of hearing that phrase here in Germany. Pretty cocky and hearing that phrase from a solicitor in THAT case is a slap in the face for all of CB's former victims so far.

Seems like CB and his solicitor are some kind of match! When you google that lawyer you will soon find out, that he's into dogs and hunting prey either!;)
 
Dlk79 said:
Think most of the reports said the Leine but one also mentioned a nearby canal.
Click to expand...
Only the English tabloid press has spoken of divers. All serious German reporting did not say a word about divers.

After I had read about divers in the Sun and Mail, I undertook a futile search in German newspapers and TV reports. Nothing.
And: Diving would not have made any sense at this point - at this time. Ten years ago, the torso of a female murder victim was found at another place. At that time all waters were fished through.

If anything else had been suspected there, it would have been in the Stichkanal, the river Leine is clearly too far away from the allotment.
 
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