Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #17

[Loobyloo]

Sorry to interrupt, how do you find a post that you made a while back on the search function? Do I put in my name and then an abbreviated version of what I'm looking for? Thanks.

You would need to put a few key words into the search (it works best if they're in the same order as the original post) then enter your forum name in the 'Posted by Member' box. If you know roughly how long ago you posted it, you can also restrict the date range.
Good luck

 

[Chiatos]

Ya try to be helpful and next thing you know, you’re boning cats!

With his background IMO he shouldn't have offered his help.

 

[Lilly b]

Yes that 22:41 time is accurate. Also accurate IMO is 21:58 IIRC (couple leaves block 6 and sees no activity outside block 5). Post edited to correct my mistake.

Duplicate

 

[Lilly b]

Yes that 22:41 time is accurate. Also accurate IMO is 21:58 IIRC (couple leaves block 6 and sees no activity outside block 5). Post edited to correct my mistake.

On the UK crimewatch programme, 2013, it updates all the timeline info.

"When the public prosecutor José de Magalhães e Menezes held the final report of the criminal police dated June 20, 2008 in his hands, he could not avoid praising the enormous diligence of the investigators. The distillate comprises 4,500 pages in 17 volumes, plus 12,000 pages with bills, wiretapping, analyzes and requests for legal assistance, and finally 5,000 pages with apparently worthless information from the population.

The police visited 443 apartments and searched 30 square kilometers with two helicopters, four ships and jeeps. The laboratories tested 257 hairs from homes and cars; that alone cost tens of thousands of euros. But in the end, the investigators have nothing in hand."

Not very discreet. Of course, if UK LE was there they would find her.

Madeleine McCann - Das Kind, nach dem die ganze Welt suchte - Panorama - sueddeutsche.de

They did use helicopters, but not that night or next day, can't find out when, but looking for info at moment, don't know if you managed to watch the c4 Dispatches programme I mentioned a few pages ago

 

[Ardoch]

You would need to put a few key words into the search (it works best if they're in the same order as the original post) then enter your forum name in the 'Posted by Member' box. If you know roughly how long ago you posted it, you can also restrict the date range.
Good luck

Many thanks Loobyloo I'll give it a go!

 

[Lilly b]

. Found it, (was the next day,) At 16.00 searches using the helicopter were initiated, the helicopter was used for 90 minutes, covering the entire area from the coast line to the EN 125, between the limits of Atalaia and Ponta da Cama da Vaca, this being the limit of the area considered probable for the child to be found, according to the hypothesis that she had left the apartment where she was staying on foot.

12. During the helicopter search, the area previously referred to was covered, in phases, running from north to South, this method is quite efficient in open areas, where something that does not fit with the scenario being examined is easily identifiable, however in the areas being searched, given the quantity of buildings and garden areas present as well as the vegetation composed essentially of small and medium sized shrubs, the detection of a child is difficult, given her small size, whether she is immobile or has fallen in a position that does not reveal her physical contours or covered by vegetation.
13. Simultaneously the searches for the child continued, by means of the officers referred to previously, in all the areas surrounding the beach, and many local people were seen, who were looking for the child on their own

 

[mrjitty]

Seriously it does strike weird, always thought the same thing... like what police force would do that!?

Well we are talking about a small resort town not a major population centre, so I don't think it is strange actually that someone who could speak both languages and volunteered would help with urgent inquiries.

The public routinely get involved in large police investigations

 

[mrjitty]

I would expect that all the people he translated for to be re interviewed by a professional translator the very minute that RM was made a suspect. A lot of Countries just seem to be 'so behind the times' when it comes to things like this. In all my life, I've never known a UK criminal case to ever leave a stone unturned, or to ever allow a local-to-the-scene in on the case purely because they are specifically good at something (translating etc). Honestly, it is bizarre to me! X

Are we mixing up a guy helping translate on the ground discussions between police and a large number of foreign tourists with people giving actual statements?

As far as I am aware, RM was not involved in official statements

 

[mrjitty]

That's a good find enjy15. He seems a credible person too and raises very interesting points.
The first hours/days and weeks were crucial. The lack of an immediate checkpoint was a massive flaw in the case regardless of the reason/s why it never happened. A post/link made yesterday (sorry, not scrolled) also said of the possibility that the abductor/s knew a checkpoint wouldn't be set up quickly enough too.

I disagree on this

If you look at similar cases in other countries, no checkpoints are set up.

I mean I think about my local village - there is a huge autobahn nearby - how do you set up a checkpoint? On what scale? How many exits are you going to cover?

If you accept that police would have needed at least a couple of hours to establish some basic facts, mobilising on that scale requires significant time - but by that point, the offender could be 100s of km away

 

[mrjitty]

From the PJ statements, it was MO who went to reception to get them to call the authorities. He states he didn’t think they took him seriously at the time, they kept telling him she probably just wandered off.

And yet somehow it is always the fault of GNR/PJ that no one from the Tapa's group, all of whom had mobiles, decided to call for emergency police assistance

 

[mrjitty]

Let's face it the portuguese police just wanted anyone to be charged, and quickly, as they couldn't be bothered to do a proper job,

Or could it be that JT, the key witness on the night, identified RM as the man carrying a child away from the apartment just at the right time for the abduction

Hard to see how that is the fault of PJ

 

[Lilly b]

Or could it be that JT, the key witness on the night, identified RM as the man carrying a child away from the apartment just at the right time for the abduction

Hard to see how that is the fault of PJ

Yes, it certainly messed it all up, however the pj should of been more open minded, it was a family resort, and they new it had an evening childminding service, but hey ho, can't change the past

 

[Lilly b]

Blunder let Madeleine McCann suspect walk free before vile images retrial
EXCLUSIVE: Christian Brueckner should have been held by German authorities four years ago but a legal source said 'this just sums up the catalogue of errors surrounding Christian B'
Madeleine McCann prime suspect Christian Brueckner walked free after being acquitted of downloading vile images of children – despite a higher court ordering a retrial.

Blundering authorities in Germany should have held Brueckner, 43, four years ago.

But they allowed him to walk free until the subsequent trial, when he was convicted and jailed for a year and three months.
Daily mirror today

 

[Okapi]

Thanks Lilly b

Link:

Blunder let Madeleine McCann suspect walk free before vile images retrial

That's pretty awful, he's had so many chances to cover his tracks.

"He is also being probed over offences across Europe, including the rape of an Irish woman and the abduction of a German girl."

Is that referring to Inga?

 

[Ardoch]

I disagree on this

If you look at similar cases in other countries, no checkpoints are set up.

I mean I think about my local village - there is a huge autobahn nearby - how do you set up a checkpoint? On what scale? How many exits are you going to cover?

If you accept that police would have needed at least a couple of hours to establish some basic facts, mobilising on that scale requires significant time - but by that point, the offender could be 100s of km away

I agree, the offender may have been miles away however in the eventuality that a victim was assaulted and murdered in the area and then the body moved later gives reason for a roadblock. Or that they could have been set up a further distance away - at the border for example.
Apparently it took 12 hours for any roadblocks to be set up according to this report.
How Madeleine McCann became one of the biggest crime mysteries in the world

Hindsight's a great thing; I think it's generally considered however that mistakes were made. JMO IMO

 

[mrjitty]

Seeing nothing is happening, I will

I agree, the offender may have been miles away however in the eventuality that a victim was assaulted and murdered in the area and then the body moved later gives reason for a roadblock. Or that they could have been set up a further distance away - at the border for example.
Apparently it took 12 hours for any roadblocks to be set up according to this report.
How Madeleine McCann became one of the biggest crime mysteries in the world

Hindsight's a great thing; I think it's generally considered however that mistakes were made. JMO IMO

Yeah - that is why I gave the example of my small town.

You could block local B roads - but there is a large Autobahn nearby which connects to other large Autobahns within 30 mins drive

So basically in that 60 minute window, you already opened up much of north, east or central germany as a possible direction of travel. So if you don't set anything up for 6-12 hrs it becomes swiftly a waste of time IMO

I mean there is still no reason to depart from the most obvious theory of the case, that the body was disposed of relatively close to PdL

One of the main ways bodies are found in these cases is where someone comes across them later. So there is no particular reason to think the offender moved the body far. Sometimes they just get lucky.

 

[peanutJelly]

And yet somehow it is always the fault of GNR/PJ that no one from the Tapa's group, all of whom had mobiles, decided to call for emergency police assistance

To be fair, I travel a lot but wouldn’t know which number to ring in an emergency in any country I’ve been to. Note to self: this could be useful to know!!

 

[mrjitty]

To be fair, I travel a lot but wouldn’t know which number to ring in an emergency in any country I’ve been to. Note to self: this could be useful to know!!

Point stands - they can't come if no one calls them.

This ties into the children being unattended.

If you don't discover your child is missing until 10.00, then no one calls the police until 10:40, then allow a response time, then allow the police a reasonable length of time to take the first steps, the offender already has a 2 hr head start.

You can be most of the way to Lisbon by then ...

 

[Dlk79]

I mean there is still no reason to depart from the most obvious theory of the case, that the body was disposed of relatively close to PdL

One of the main ways bodies are found in these cases is where someone comes across them later. So there is no particular reason to think the offender moved the body far. Sometimes they just get lucky.

It's a fair point. One thing that we know of CB's sexual offences against against children is that they seem to take place outdoors, in public settings. The two offences as a teenager were both out in the open. The sexual offence against the 5yr old child of his ex girlfriend took place in a park when you'd think he would have had opportunity to pick a more private setting. And then there's the masturbating incident in the playground in Messines.

It's entirely feasible CB may have taken MM to somewhere nearby but quiet, and disposed of her there too. The garbage system in Luz is based on large communal industrial type bins. These are emptied between 12 and 4am nightly, each bin collected in varying frequency depending on usage. No attempts to halt refuse collections were made following the disappearance of MM so they just continued as normal. The PJ did carry out checks on bins (not sure how thorough) but the work was not completed until the 7th by which time many of the bins had already been taken to landfill. CB may well have just got very lucky unfortunately.

 

[Lilly b]

Thanks Lilly b

Link:

Blunder let Madeleine McCann suspect walk free before vile images retrial

That's pretty awful, he's had so many chances to cover his tracks.

"He is also being probed over offences across Europe, including the rape of an Irish woman and the abduction of a German girl."

Is that referring to Inga?

I think so