Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #16

[ilovepierre]

I think it's possible that in the confusion from hypoxia they were randomly swatting at buttons to make the noises stop. I remember on the Helios flight that the pilot got agitated and yelled at the air traffic control guy asking about the location of his something. They thought it was odd because he didn't answer their question and asked about something he should have known the location of.

Right.
So it's quite possible the controls were accidentally switched off due to confusion from hypoxia-if that's even what happened.

 

[MLO]

If you're interested in reading a bit about another massive search off the coast of WA. This was further north and in calmer water but still took 66 years to find. HMAS Sydney- http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/natio...-for-hmas-sydney/story-fnjbnxug-1226865166807

Only one body was ever found — washed ashore in a sun-bleached life raft on Christmas Island. Until the advent of DNA testing, nobody was certain it had come from the missing warship.

The search for Sydney was large, desperate — and fruitless.

It also spanned decades.

The story of the Sydney fascinates me as we had a family member on it.

 

[ilovepierre]

Hijack WAS my #1 theory, but now I think it was a combination of things: depressurization caused by some sort of mechanical malfunction, which in turn caused hypoxia. This is why the plane descended and then went back to cruising altitude. It was trying to get the cabin pressure back to normal. The hypoxia confused the pilots, and in their confusion, switches were flicked by accident. The plane continued on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed into the Indian Ocean.

 

[MLO]

Hijack WAS my #1 theory, but now I think it was a combination of things: depressurization caused by some sort of mechanical malfunction, which in turn caused hypoxia. This is why the plane descended and then went back to cruising altitude. It was trying to get the cabin pressure back to normal. The hypoxia confused the pilots, and in their confusion, switches were flicked by accident. The plane continued on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed into the Indian Ocean.

Yes, and even though hypoxia can be reversed there is a point where brain damage is permanent. I know on the Helios plane the flight attendant who was conscious until the end tried to put an oxygen mask one of the pilots to revive him before they ran out of fuel. It was way too late but the flight attendant wasn't thinking clearly anyway. That's the theory anyway, since the pilot at the controls did have a mask on.

 

[HulaMum]

Hijack WAS my #1 theory, but now I think it was a combination of things: depressurization caused by some sort of mechanical malfunction, which in turn caused hypoxia. This is why the plane descended and then went back to cruising altitude. It was trying to get the cabin pressure back to normal. The hypoxia confused the pilots, and in their confusion, switches were flicked by accident. The plane continued on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed into the Indian Ocean.

I agree with your theory and I hope we are right. No pain, no terror, no fear for any of the 239 souls on board.

 

[Indy Anna]

I think it's possible that in the confusion from hypoxia they were randomly swatting at buttons to make the noises stop. I remember on the Helios flight that the pilot got agitated and yelled at the air traffic control guy asking about the location of his something. They thought it was odd because he didn't answer their question and asked about something he should have known the location of.

I can't find the article(s) now, but IIRC the controls to the communications system is located in the cargo hold, or somewhere not readily accessible. If that's correct, then it's not likely the crew accidentally hit the wrong buttons while incapacitated by hypoxia. Also, the transponder seems to have been purposely re-programmed. After initially flying northeast toward Beijing, the plane made a sharp turn west and then another turn to head south.

I'm not sure what to think happened. I'm still inclined to think it was a deliberate act. Can't be sure the pilot or co-pilot were responsible, though. A passenger(s) could have taken control with weapons. Whether a crew member(s) or passenger(s) is/are responsible for M370's disappearance, what is so incomprehensible is why anyone would have wanted to crash an airplane full of innocent people into the ocean far from its destination. What purpose would the hijacker(s) have in crashing an airplane where it may never found and if the who and why is never known?

 

[aa9511]

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0001424052702303949704579456872074009460.html

Interesting and informative article in WSJ about the satellite imagery used for this search - I think it says what a lot of us already knew anyway.

JMO.

 

[nao]

http://www.antarctica.gov.au/webcams/aurora

the aurora is moving thru ice at moment, but i can't figure the travel maps.
updates image every half hour or so.
gives a good view of the wide open ocean there.

 

[Brightbird]

I can't find the article(s) now, but IIRC the controls to the communications system is located in the cargo hold, or somewhere not readily accessible. If that's correct, then it's not likely the crew accidentally hit the wrong buttons while incapacitated by hypoxia. Also, the transponder seems to have been purposely re-programmed. After initially flying northeast toward Beijing, the plane made a sharp turn west and then another turn to head south.

I'm not sure what to think happened. I'm still inclined to think it was a deliberate act. Can't be sure the pilot or co-pilot were responsible, though. A passenger(s) could have taken control with weapons. Whether a crew member(s) or passenger(s) is/are responsible for M370's disappearance, what is so incomprehensible is why anyone would have wanted to crash an airplane full of innocent people into the ocean far from its destination. What purpose would the hijacker(s) have in crashing an airplane where it may never found and if the who and why is never known?

My understanding is that the ACARS can be switched off in the cockpit. But to totally disable it, someone needs to go into the avionics bay. The ACARS in MH370 was only switched off in the cockpit. The fact it wasn't entirely disabled is why Inmarsat was able to pick up the hourly "handshakes". The transponder tells the planes identity, location, altitude and speed. It doesn't have flight information programmed into it - that's the flight management system.

Feel free to correct me though. I've only come to learn any of this these last few weeks.

 

[HulaMum]

I can't find the article(s) now, but IIRC the controls to the communications system is located in the cargo hold, or somewhere not readily accessible. If that's correct, then it's not likely the crew accidentally hit the wrong buttons while incapacitated by hypoxia. Also, the transponder seems to have been purposely re-programmed. After initially flying northeast toward Beijing, the plane made a sharp turn west and then another turn to head south.

I'm not sure what to think happened. I'm still inclined to think it was a deliberate act. Can't be sure the pilot or co-pilot were responsible, though. A passenger(s) could have taken control with weapons. Whether a crew member(s) or passenger(s) is/are responsible for M370's disappearance, what is so incomprehensible is why anyone would have wanted to crash an airplane full of innocent people into the ocean far from its destination. What purpose would the hijacker(s) have in crashing an airplane where it may never found and if the who and why is never known?

All pilot-input controls are in the cockpit. The hardware is in a cargo area. All the ways a pilot has of communicating are within arm's reach.

About transponders - changing codes during a flight is not atypical. The pilot reaches over and "squawks" a new numerical code per ATC instructions (typically when transitioning from one airspace to the next). The transponder has nothing to do with direction. It is simply a way for ATC to identify which "blip" you are on their radar screen.

 

[Soulmagent]

I think it's possible that in the confusion from hypoxia they were randomly swatting at buttons to make the noises stop. I remember on the Helios flight that the pilot got agitated and yelled at the air traffic control guy asking about the location of his something. They thought it was odd because he didn't answer their question and asked about something he should have known the location of.

This would not explain the flying a purposeful path along the borders. See post 168 for the map.

That seems to suggest the deliberate act Malaysia kept saying took place.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

In the U.S., Mr. McLaughlin's comments would have led to his and his company's immediate removal from any NTSB investigation, according to the board's procedures and rules. The U.K. and many other countries have similarly strict rules.

Boeing Co. and Rolls-Royce RR.LN +1.67% PLC, which made the Malaysian aircraft and its engines, have kept their silence and repeatedly refused to answer questions, citing restrictions of the continuing investigation.

http://online.wsj.com/news/article_...4579460171057002290-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwNTEyNDUyWj

For those who didn't see the article.

The statement seems to be the WSJ author's, Andy Pasztor, opinion. He writes as if he's suggesting the man (Hall), he quoted two lines above his opinion, suggested that but there aren't any quotes surrounding "immediate removal from NTSB investigation". The author launches into his opinion without attributing it in any legitimate way to any body other than himself.

Am I right that some people have turned info from this article, based on the author's comment, into critical commentary about the policies of other countries?
Maybe I'm confused but dragging the US into this mess based on the content of this article and what
Andy Pasztor claims is unfair.


http://online.wsj.com/news/article_...4579460171057002290-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwNTEyNDUyWj

 

[Forensics]

Not much luck with locating and recovering debris so far, and unfortunately the weather is set to deteriorate once more later today. Tomorrow looks no better with forecasted possible gales and thunderstorms in the area. These conditions will create increased uncertainty in locating the debris spotted in previous missions.

 

[Forensics]

I can't find the article(s) now, but IIRC the controls to the communications system is located in the cargo hold, or somewhere not readily accessible. If that's correct, then it's not likely the crew accidentally hit the wrong buttons while incapacitated by hypoxia. Also, the transponder seems to have been purposely re-programmed. After initially flying northeast toward Beijing, the plane made a sharp turn west and then another turn to head south.

I'm not sure what to think happened. I'm still inclined to think it was a deliberate act. Can't be sure the pilot or co-pilot were responsible, though. A passenger(s) could have taken control with weapons. Whether a crew member(s) or passenger(s) is/are responsible for M370's disappearance, what is so incomprehensible is why anyone would have wanted to crash an airplane full of innocent people into the ocean far from its destination. What purpose would the hijacker(s) have in crashing an airplane where it may never found and if the who and why is never known?

I agree. It is incomprehensible but the theory that murder/suicide by pilot seems to be taking hold, certainly several newspapers today have had lead stories of the pilot's possible marriage breakup and other relationship problems. Of everyone aboard, he would have been the one with the skills and knowledge to ditch the plane in an area so remote that it is extremely difficult to locate and recover any evidence, let alone the monumental challenges lying ahead in locating and recovering the black box data.

I am torn between agreeing with the theory and believing that some terrible plane malfunction might have set up an unfortunate chain of circumstances. Meanwhile, five ships and an equal number of planes are scouring the area for any possible clues.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Tiepos: thanks, "jingoistic", learn something new every day

Me too, new term!
But I think many countries seem to be working together.
It stings a bit to hear the negative remarks considering how Americans are often the first ones in to help other countries out in times of crisis and raise tons of money through collective efforts when aid is needed elsewhere. I know other countries do this as well but they're not being criticized.
Just like with Malaysians, it's not the fault of the average American what our government chooses to do militarily.

I say if peeps from whatever country is saying these things, want to tackle this crisis by their lonesome, have at it. :run: :sheesh:

 

[escabeche]

(BBM)


Exactly, I understand that and that's why I did my research - in this case, it wasn't cheaper. The only other reason I can think of for him taking that particular flight is that there was some type of time-crunch to get out of Malaysia so he took the first flight he could get...

Which airline or comparison website were you searching on for the direct flights to be cheaper? My job involves booking extensive international travel (mobilization and logistics) so am really quite curious as my initial searches on this came back very differently.

You can't search previous dates so I did a few searches on different dates for a similar time of year (shoulder season). Typical/average prices from KL to Frankfurt seem to be approx:

KUL-FRA AUD$877 13h21m Malaysia Air
KUL-CAN-FRA AUD$577 41h50m Sri Lankan Air

http://www.skyscanner.com.au/transp...mpur-to-frankfurt-in-november-2014.html?rtn=0

While the direct flights are much quicker, the non-direct always came back cheaper. If I were a refugee on a budget I'd definitely consider sacrificing time in order to save a few hundred dollars...

JMO

 

[stx722]

Good thinking about the salt as I didn't add any. But I will goggle salt concentrations of the sea and see if I can work out how much salt to add. Thanks for pointing that out.

35 grams of marine salt mix per liter of water, gives you 35 ppt. This is a rough measure that is used in salt water tanks. It will closely mimic the salinity of the ocean, including the different salt components. You can get a small container for cheap at most pet shops that sell salt water supplies and/or an aquarium shop.

 

[gregjrichards]

WARNING ALERT - Sky news UK reports Malaysian government press conference in 2 hours and 40 minutes from now 5:30pm Malaysian time, 5:30 am New York time, 9:30 am London time.

Sky news link to watch live http://news.sky.com/templates/watch-live please feel free to post other links.

 

[MLO]

Which airline or comparison website were you searching on for the direct flights to be cheaper? My job involves booking extensive international travel (mobilization and logistics) so am really quite curious as my initial searches on this came back very differently.

You can't search previous dates so I did a few searches on different dates for a similar time of year (shoulder season). Typical/average prices from KL to Frankfurt seem to be approx:

KUL-FRA AUD$877 13h21m Malaysia Air
KUL-CAN-FRA AUD$577 41h50m Sri Lankan Air

http://www.skyscanner.com.au/transp...mpur-to-frankfurt-in-november-2014.html?rtn=0

While the direct flights are much quicker, the non-direct always came back cheaper. If I were a refugee on a budget I'd definitely consider sacrificing time in order to save a few hundred dollars...

JMO

I agree, after shelling out thousands of dollars, you probably wouldn't have much left to spare. Refugees save, starve, beg, borrow and sell everything to get out. I'd add steal but I don't want to imply they would. I sure as hell would though.

BUT, since I'm a nervous Nelly when I'm doing something wrong, if I could I'd fly direct. I think the less officials I had to deal with the less chance I'd have to trip myself up and ruin the entire thing.

 

[SouthAussie]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan
Well while we're waiting here's a little distraction for you. My latest creation;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTwy6...ature=youtu.be

Make sure to "like" it!

I have watched it... Enjoyed it... :floorlaugh:...


But I don't know how to "like" it...(I can't find the "like" button...:blushing

Thoughts?

TIA...:seeya:

Under the red 'subscribe' button, there is a thumbs-up like or a thumbs-down don't like.

:seeya: