Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #7

[Zuleika]

It was discussed on here early on that they had previously enjoyed those type of holidays. I think that was due to their busy day to day lives this type of holiday was more preferable to them. Perhaps not normally as remote as this complex is though.

I have followed this case since the beginning and something is bothering me about the location where Nora was found. I am suspecting that she did reach this area by herself. I say this because it has been reported that it is very, very difficult to reach. Whilst most people here seem to have concluded it is not somewhere that Nora could have got to herself, I believe that she did. Once lost, I feel that Nora has wandered aimlessly in no particular direction and stumbled/fell a lot due to her limited walking ability. I don't see this as impossible, whereas I do think that it would have been more difficult than that for someone to have taken her there by carrying her, for example. Nora had a week to become more and more lost and covering that distance in spurts and could be the reality of the situation in my view.

Wouldn’t she have suffered far more scratches to her body on her upper torso and legs ?

 

[Chiatos]

Nóra Quoirin: Male DNA found on cigarette butts near body

Back to the cigarette butts in the hut nearby; yesterday there was absolutely no mention about this finding in Malaysian media.
Malayasian media reported that police found no evidence of a break in in the Sora house, based on DNA and fingerprint investigation.
Only the British media mentioned the hut and the cigarettes.

Today a police woman is testifying.

 

[Chiatos]

The autopsy report(s) found no signs of dehydration. Nora was supposed to have walked around in the heat for 6 days. She would have had to drink sufficient water to survive. Nora did not die of thirst.
The autopsy found no traces of the organisms -present in the stream where she was found- in her body. One can conclude that Nora did not drink directly from that stream. One can deduce that she must have drunk something during those 6 days. Otherwise signs of dehydration would have been found in her system (brain, heart, kidneys, everywhere).

 

[AnnesCuthberts]

Thank you so much for the updates @Chiatos

no signs of dehydration. Where else could she have got a drink from in that time? This is odd. Just odd. When dehydrated you tend to overheat, which could explain why she has no clothes, but if she’s not dehydrated that doesn’t seem likely. And at her stated height + weight she would surely dehydrate quicker, IMO

 

[Officer Dibble]

The autopsy report(s) found no signs of dehydration. Nora was supposed to have walked around in the heat for 6 days. She would have had to drink sufficient water to survive. Nora did not die of thirst.
The autopsy found no traces of the organisms -present in the stream where she was found- in her body. One can conclude that Nora did not drink directly from that stream. One can deduce that she must have drunk something during those 6 days. Otherwise signs of dehydration would have been found in her system (brain, heart, kidneys, everywhere).

Very good point. Have they discussed this at the inquest?

 

[Lilibet]

Very good point. Have they discussed this at the inquest?

I was just going to say the same thing. It’s a very good point! So what other options for staying hydrated did she have? Another stream? Someone provided water? Or?

 

[Chiatos]

Very good point. Have they discussed this at the inquest?

I really have no idea(!)
Most of the hearings were in Malysian and I haven't seen any of this in the media describing the hearing of the day.
*See addition below.

Apparently today has been the last day of the hearings. Today's witness, the police woman, is the final witness.

The Coroner is preparing for a verdict (end Dec / early Jan).
Source: The Irish Sun

*Edited to add: I have captured that diatom analysis was done during the autopsy to rule out drowning.

 

[Cherwell]

Are you searching for her height?
She was 5 ft 1 apparently according to an early Irish Times article.
But if you want to double check, both pathologists measured her height in the course of their autopsies, both linked above.

Only because it's been mentioned that she was exceptionally small (paraphrasing, because I don't have time to look for the quotes - once by her mother, I think, and also by the teacher). But she appears to have been as tall as many adults.

 

[Cascadia Mount]

The autopsy report(s) found no signs of dehydration. Nora was supposed to have walked around in the heat for 6 days. She would have had to drink sufficient water to survive. Nora did not die of thirst.
The autopsy found no traces of the organisms -present in the stream where she was found- in her body. One can conclude that Nora did not drink directly from that stream. One can deduce that she must have drunk something during those 6 days. Otherwise signs of dehydration would have been found in her system (brain, heart, kidneys, everywhere).

Oh I didn't remember that! She would have passed sooner if she had been dehydrated.

 

[jenn83]

I do not think she was kidnapped nor do I think she crawled out that window. But no facts to back that up so it's just MOO

 

[StillDiggin]

We have the dates announced for the findings from the inquest. 31 December but no later than 4th January,
L B Trust Global

 

[Chiatos]

Exhibit shown in yesterday's hearing: Lot 59 at the Dusun.

The hut near Nora's body has been mentioned before in the media (the cigarette butts are new to us).
Only since a couple of days do we know about the cigarette butts at the hut.
Witness testimony, October 21:
The witness said he saw the body around 50m from a hut the search team had previously passed by.
"he saw other things around the hut including food containers and drink bottle."
Witness discovered Nora Quoirin's body 50m from hut rescuers had passed by, inquest told

Apparently there were also some cigarette butts.
Has the other stuff including the drink bottle also been tested for DNA?
At the hearing(s) it was said that Nora's DNA had not been found at the hut. Therefore also not on the bottle?

 

[Cherwell]

Is it so remarkable that if a hut exists, there is evidence of people being there?

 

[Chiatos]

Is it so remarkable that if a hut exists, there is evidence of people being there?

Not at all. After all, it is an artefact.

 

[kittythehare]

Exhibit shown in yesterday's hearing: Lot 59 at the Dusun.

The hut near Nora's body has been mentioned before in the media (the cigarette butts are new to us).
Only since a couple of days do we know about the cigarette butts at the hut.
Witness testimony, October 21:
The witness said he saw the body around 50m from a hut the search team had previously passed by.
"he saw other things around the hut including food containers and drink bottle."
Witness discovered Nora Quoirin's body 50m from hut rescuers had passed by, inquest told

Apparently there were also some cigarette butts.
Has the other stuff including the drink bottle also been tested for DNA?
At the hearing(s) it was said that Nora's DNA had not been found at the hut. Therefore also not on the bottle?

Well done pulling those stills and enlarging them so well!
All very well announcing the inquest will be public and transparent when no translations are provided.
No idea whether bottle or buts were analysed.. we do not know if the question was asked, even.
It all comes down to Nora's ability and limitations as presented in the reports submitted by her teacher from the various health care experts who had monitored her.
They seem to be saying she was quite unable to reach the place where she was found.
dehydration as cause of death , as you pointed out is absent.
Likewise, absence of water from stream where she was found in her system suggests she did not drink from it.
It's a huge disappointment that decomposition had set in so quickly and limited so much.
I'm not sure the second autopsy helped in any way or was in any way necessary. It added nothing to the very comprehensive Malaysian autopsy.

The absence of local knowledge of dynamics between Dosun owners and other people living in the area is unhelpful in any assessment of alternative scenarios. They would be speculative in any case.
I don't believe she walked to where she was found if I accept her teacher's testimony and her parents' testimonies, which I do, having no reason to dispute them.

It was a long night between 11pm and 7am...8 hrs of darkness unaccounted for...anything could have happened.

 

[news buff]

Anyone heard an update on Nora's case?

 

[kittythehare]

Verdict will be delivered today by the Malaysian coroner
Malaysian coroner to give verdict in French-Irish teenager’s death

 

[Jax49]

Malaysia coroner rules out others in French-Irish teen death

A Malaysian coroner has ruled the death of a French-Irish teen, whose body was found near a Malaysian jungle resort where she vanished while on holiday, was most likely a misadventure that didn’t involve other people.

 

[kittythehare]

Malaysia coroner rules out others in French-Irish teen death

seems harsh because I'm not sure whether it refers to the kidnapping or her disability
. Her body was found beside a stream on a palm oil estate. Nora’s parents said she had mental and physical disabilities and likely was kidnapped. The coroner described that as a theory with no evidence.

 

[Jax49]

seems harsh because I'm not sure whether it refers to the kidnapping or her disability
. Her body was found beside a stream on a palm oil estate. Nora’s parents said she had mental and physical disabilities and likely was kidnapped. The coroner described that as a theory with no evidence.

Coroner rules out involvement of other people in death of Nora Quoirin

But Nora’s parents said she was likely kidnapped because she had mental and physical disabilities and would not have wandered off on her own.

The coroner described that possibility as a theory and said it would be a breach of her duty to speculate on third-party involvement without any evidence.